Workers of the world, unite! [RFC RAND]

[AnotherPacifist]

Never turn off espionage on civs you want to steal from unless you have an overwhelming advantage (e.g. 5000+) because they often make it much more expensive (with courthouse/jail/IA/SB) and prices can jump a lot.

Trade routes are calculated every turn so I think espionage costs may change from turn to turn.

NO MORE CITIES (either conquered or built)!!! (If we're ever going to catch up on tech) We have more than enough for some to be just building wealth so our science (or espionage) slider can go up. In fact, I suggest that if we have a spy that's just about to sit for 5 turns, we should turn science down to 0% so that we can steal stuff quicker.

(I once played a conquest game with no science after Flight--all other techs were stolen from my vassals).

 

[Jusos2108]

This is ridiculous. Why doesn't anybody play? IMO onedreamer's turn should be skipped, since it's been three days, since he basicly said "I got it". The limit was two days.

Danger Bird agreed to skip his turn earlier, nothing to it. Onedreamer failed to play in two days, therefore it is AP's turn again!

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Can't we just say that this game is dead...if I don't hear from anybody by noon today (EST) I'll play.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

1. 1811 Turks cancel wheat for incense deal. AP resolution comes up--I vote for "declare war on Germany"! I notice we still haven't built the Summer Palace yet--Archangelsk seems a pretty good place for it (with all our German conquests bunched up there. Troops advance on Munchen and Koln's defenses are down. A great artist is sent to the capital waiting to start another GA.
2. 1814 The AP resolution succeeds: Vikings and China both declare on Germany. Koln is captured and Germany capitulates...and I liberate Koln back to them. Unfortunately the Turks are in an alliance with Japan and China (our close friends) so in the meantime I send the troops back to upgrade.

(Note that for domination we do need population and vassals' pop don't count) I direct the Germans to research military science.
3. 1817 We make peace with the Mali. I do a little mischievous thing for the next player: I sign DPs with Vikings, Turkey and China. God help us all.
4. 1820 The Khmer are wowed by our power and decide to spontaneously vassalize and I direct them to research constitution. Which is good because we don't have incense, dye and gems and I exchange fish and cow with them. A Confucian wedding between Vikings and us pleases both of us.

5. 1823 Turks cancel sugar for sheep deal. (Nobody else has it ) Economics is done, I continue scientific method (hopefully exchange for constitution from Khmer) I begin another GA since we have a great spy (I debated whether to send him to France but since our espionage is really expensive, the 2500 or so that he's going to add isn't going to make a dent. Rather use him for the production in the GA so we can build lots of jails)
6. 1826 Start Trading Company in Moskow, other cities build things like custom houses and Confucian Academies.
7. 1829 Liberalism is stolen from the French. Looking at all the espionage prices, it's going to be still cheaper to steal from the Germans when they learn MS (probably because the Chinese have jails and IAs), so I send the spy back towards Europe.
8. 1832 SC done: we find oil near Nodygrad.
9. 1835 Russian revolt in Tashkent. I get sugar from the Carthaginians with some rice.
10. 1838 German revolt in Frankfurt.

To do:
1. Finish communism in 4-5 turns. If stability is OK, switch to State Property AND NOTHING ELSE (it'll take 2 turns for any other combination since our empire is so large). (note that I'm building custom houses which won't be effective unless we have overseas trade, and Mercantilism isn't the way to go, and Free Trade is out of the question since we have so much production).
2. Spies are sitting in the east for nothing. It's very expensive to steal from the Chinese so it's better to "bootstrap" ourselves by stealing from our vassals (namely, Germany). It's actually cheaper to steal Physics from the Portuguese so I send 2 spies over there.
3. Exchange for Constitution from the Khmer for whatever price (who will learn it in 2 turns) BUT DON'T SWITCH TO REP! (it'll kill our stability). Build lots of jails for espionage.
4. Most importantly: Democracy should be our next target both because of the espionage buildings and also try to build the Statue of Liberty (nobody has built it yet)
5. NO MORE WAR UNTIL WE GET FASCISM (well, unless one of our DPs take effect and Turkey or France want us dead). Trust me, if you don't want to collapse, that's the way to go. (Bombers, tanks and infantry would be nice too.)
6. Sometimes people need to remember to switch back from building wealth, one city at a time, so that our science doesn't suffer, but then those cities can build stuff like jails.
7. I have a GE (born in 1832 or 35) sitting in Moscow. He will help with the Statue of Liberty.
8. Save a city up north with lots of trees so we can do a National Park there.
9. 2 workers are working on a fort on our oil--don't dismantle it (we can have oil as soon as we know combustion). The workers can always go back and build a well.
10. If Tashkent wants to join us, disband it.

 

[Danger Bird]

Good turns. Especially when I look at the stability on the save game: +77 I never get that kind of stability, and this is on medieval civics, too.

On civics, I agree with AnotherPacifist:

• I suppose we are going to want to change all civics columns eventually, to Police State, Nationhood, Emancipation, State Property, Free Religion (?), and Occupation (?).
• So, when Communism comes in, changing only 1, to SP (takes 1 turn) then at a later point changing the other 5 (takes 3 turns) seems to be an efficient way of doing it. We won't have the necessary techs to change 3 at once (which would take 2 turns).

 

[Jusos2108]

Or then we build cristo redentor. I'll play today.

 

[Jusos2108]

0. Switched all espionage towards the vikings. No point stealing MS from slow teching Germany as they'll probably trade it for us and the vikings have pretty much everything we want. Sent spies to Oslo.
1. Hannibal asked to beome our vassal, I refused, because they were at war with India, who had a DP with Japan.

Spoiler :

2.-3. GA ended, finished some buildings.
4. Khmers were willing to trade constitution to us for Rifling and MT, jails started everywhere, science suffers (-10%), but asked around for some gold.

Spoiler :

5. We get communism, IAs are next in line after jails.
6. Vikings take Ulaan-Ude, that doesn't really bother us, better them than China

Spoiler :

7. We trade military science from Germany for MT, economics and some cash

Spoiler :

8. Vikings also take Taskent

Spoiler :

9. Jails built everywhere and we get lucky

Spoiler :

10. Jails built everywhere

Notes:
-Kherms are teching nationalism, so that shouldn't be stolen from the Vikings
-Germany is teching corporation for us (via trading!)
-Didn't switch civics, because we don't need to, yet. State property doesn't give us anything at the moment!
-I would take a risk and go for Christo Redentor and then switch civics, China is teching the AL path
-When IAs are finished, it won't take long that we get to steal stuff
-Focuse on espionage buildings

 

[onedreamer]

sorry guys both my young daughter and I got flu in the weekend and I really couldn't force myself into playing.
So.. it's now Danger Bird's turn, isn't it ? Are Burnemdown and Nody still around btw ?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Why Physics?? We're way behind and cannot beat China to Electricity or Radio. What happened to the Statue of Liberty? It's especially important because it can potentially give us 15 extra scientists' worth of science, or 15 spies! And it's especially useful when you have cities that need culture right away (if you have the Sistine Chapel too, but Eiffel Tower works too) after conquests.

I would have razed Tashkent rather than let the Vikings have it--first, because it raises the possibility of a Mongol spawn (which would certainly take areas away from our cities, and second, the proximity will make them hate us and Vikings are known for declaring even when pleased.

 

[Jusos2108]

China built the SoL on turn 2 or 3. Physics is the best choice, because we can steal pretty much everything else from the Vikings and there is a slim chance that China isn't teching towards radio yet.

Didn't notice that the Vikings moved from Ulaan-Ude towards Taskent (it was in revolt, so they did it in 1 turn), and to be honest it really doesn't make any difference who has it. It'll probably flip to us soon.

 

[Danger Bird]

Got it, and looking it over. Will be able to play tomorrow.

 

[Danger Bird]

-Kherms are teching nationalism, so that shouldn't be stolen from the Vikings
-Germany is teching corporation for us (via trading!)

I guess I'll aim at stealing Chemistry from the Vikings, as that is not being researched by a vassal and it is on the path to Assembly Line and Fascism. I'll stay on the Physics>Electricity>Radio path for research, hoping for a shot at Cristo Redentor.

-Didn't switch civics, because we don't need to, yet. State property doesn't give us anything at the moment!
-I would take a risk and go for Christo Redentor and then switch civics, China is teching the AL path

Are you sure we don't gain anything by taking a turn to go to State Property now? At present with Mercantilism, the trade routes are mostly +2 and +4, with just a few +6, +8 with faraway Khmer cities. If we had worldwide trade, wouldn't we have a lot of +8 and +10 trade routes by now? (Not sure ) And the benefit of lower maintenance costs as well.

-When IAs are finished, it won't take long that we get to steal stuff
-Focuse on espionage buildings

Tashkent: hope it survives for a while because it is a very cheap place to steal techs.
(Edit: No, it won't last. Ulaan-Ude went to the Chinese in 2 or 3 turns. I will move one or two spies to Bergen, though, as it has substantial discounts.)

 

[Jusos2108]

Tashkent: hope it survives for a while because it is a very cheap place to steal techs.

You're right! Hopefully it won't flip too soon. You should move the spies from Oslo to there.

 

[onedreamer]

Are you sure we don't gain anything by taking a turn to go to State Property now? At present with Mercantilism, the trade routes are mostly +2 and +4, with just a few +6, +8 with faraway Khmer cities. If we had worldwide trade, wouldn't we have a lot of +8 and +10 trade routes by now? (Not sure ) And the benefit of lower maintenance costs as well.

Much more than +10 trade routes in ports surely. Trade routes are by far the most important source of commerce, hence Mercantilism is a suicide unless you are a very big empire with several vassals, but with few others civs left out, in this case they would probably benefit from your trade routes more than you would, but in RFC this is unlikely to happen given the high amount of civs alive in the late game. With State Property, btw, we also get +1 food from workshops which could mean more specialists.

 

[Danger Bird]

Just finished my turns, but won't be able to write up until tomorrow.

Sorry about the delay, but here is a quick summary:
- Got into a war with Turkey and China over a Congress ( ). But both turned out brief and profitable. ( Peace already made.)
- The last plague (we hope) has hit the Baltic cities and has worked its way east to Kiev.
- Bad luck with spies in Scandinavia (3 caught, 1 struck down by plague). But two attractive replacements, Yelizaveta Zarubina and Maria Konnenkova, are already on their way to their assignments. And we have racked up a lot of points on the Vikings.
- Electricity is 6 turns away, then radio in ..?.. - and Cristo Redentor is still not built. Though the Chinese have built almost everything else.
- Switched to State Property: net gain = 87 gpt

 

[Danger Bird]

Desperate to keep pace with the modernising world, Russia in the 1860s and 1970s cultivated its scientists and its exponentially expanding espionage community "while leaving its good soldiers to drink second-rate tea and play horse games on the dreary borderlands of the empire," grumbled Commander Vronsky.

But just as the Marxist faction was engineering a quick regime change in Moskva, the foreign ministry was presented with outrageous demands from the Turkish and various European diplomats who were gathered in Carycin "for a bit of 'Congress' (Harumph!!) and feasting on good Russian game and vodka" ... "the height of bad manners!!" - again our irascible Vronsky.

The conficts was were welcomed by the military men, however, and (in the words of the beloved commander) "promised a bit of good sport, riding through the towns and country of the eastern lands on the hunt for one, just one, half-valorous soldier who might work up the pluck to fight with us. Quite disappointing, though, I say, in the end, as they mainly scampered under any bush or ditch they could find. Just as well it ended quickly!"

The brief war provided a shot of adrenalin at the beginning of the 1870s, but in the west the news was bleak: spies caught or falling sick in the Baltic plague. But the Tsar of the Socialist Republics ( <-- ) vowed that Russia would rebound quickly.

1860 (Turn 0 check) - Stability: +28
Spies: With the exception of one which has developed good contacts in Oslo, the other 3 spies are reassigned to Bergen (almost as cheap as Tashkent, but more likely to be around in a decade).
Workers: stop some roads, move to hook up 2nd oil north of Odessa, build preserves north of Nodygrad, and general improvement near Carycin.
Specialists: re-arrange a few to get more science, but keep Kiev as a spy town, artists on the borders (Odessa and Buryngrad) and merchants as few places elesewhere.

(Press Enter.)

1862 (1) - Stability: +29, EPs/turn: 115
Congress in 2 turns. Citizens of Frankfurt ask to join Germany: no. Apostolic Palace resolution: I choose open borders (it succeeds).
Nodygrad: Jail > Intelligence Agency (10)
Great Scientist in Novgorod, puts 2412 points to Physics.

1864 (2) - Stability: +27, EPs/turn: 171
Congress bribes? no. China cancels deal: Marble, Clam, for Coal. And so I find that we have no domestic sources of coal. Oh, wait, we don't have Steam Power yet. I'm still getting used to how backward we are.
Moskva, Jaroslavl: IA > Wealth. Artashat: Forge > Observatory (6). Carycin, Archangelsk: Jail > IA (9, 10)
Upgrade Gaj Marij Infantry in Odessa to rifles (free).

1866 (3) - Stability: +28, EPs/turn: 169
China completes Wembley. China cancels Defensive Pact. (What are they up to?)
Congress of Carycin:
* Portugal is granted Goa from Aztecs (we abstained).
* Turkey demands Smolensk, with support of France, England, Portugal (only us and Japan against), we refuse > war with Turkey and China. (Yes, refusing for the sake of Smolensk was rather rash, but I (well, Vronsky) wanted something to do. And, see below.)
* Japan gets Guangzhou/Koushuu from China (we supported this). (Something I never do because I think congresses are ridiculous. But for the sake of playing the succession game as well as I can, I should weaken China.)
England and Vikings also declare war on Turkey, China.
German revolt in Frankfurt.
Odessa loses 1 population
Physics > Electricity (15) - 4 uranium deposits.
Raze undefended Chinese border town of Ulaan-Ude. Upgrade defences in Smolensk, move some offensive forces from Viking border to southeast in case this is a long war (but the plan is that it isn't). Advance with large force from Buryngrad to nearby Trabzon.

Spoiler :

1868 (4) - Stability: +21, EPs/turn: 188
Moskva, Jaroslavl: Wealth > Cossack, Airship. Astrakhan: IA > Riflemen (4).
The much-anticipated Marxist revolution (to State Property) begins.
Raze Trabzon without casualties, sign peace with Turkey, getting map. Buryngrad has a bit more breathing room.

Spoiler :

1870 (5) - Stability: -10, EPs/turn: 180
Anarchy ends. Finances are in better shape with lower maintenance, more lucrative trade routes: net gain is 87gpt (see below for before and after reports).

Spoiler :

1872 (6) - Stability: +16, EPs/turn: 232
Peace deals expire with Japan and England. (Reminded of this potential source of income, I look around. I can only convince Carthage to cough up 20g.)
Smolensk: Jail > Intelligence Agency (7). Buryngrad: IA > Confucian Academy (6).
Odessa grabs some land from the Vikings .

1874 (7) - Stability: +20, EPs/turn: 289
Plague in London, Odessa. And two spies are caught in an apparent security sweep in Scandinavia - 1 in Oslo and 1 in Bergen. 1 Bergen spy left.
Germany wants fur, we take horse, silver, and rice.
Kiev: IA > Spy (2). Novgorod: IA > Wealth. Korinthos: Jail > IA (17).
Germany has Corporation, but we have nothing to trade for it.
Vronsky's Regiment pillages a Chinese winery.

Spoiler :

1876 (8) - Stability: +14, EPs/turn: 278
Plague spreads to Sankt-Peterburg, and abroad to Berlin and Oslo. Its garrison escaped to Kiev.
Moskva: Cossack > Cossack (4). Jaroslavl: Airship > Cossack (3). Azov: IA > Frigate (5).
Airship makes maiden flight to Smolensk, to recon the Chinese lands.
Carycin's garrison kills a Chinese scout north of the city, and moves into the wilderness to escape plague.

1878 (9) - Stability: +16, EPs/turn: 362
Vikings take Bukhara.
Plague spreads to Archangelsk, kills the last spy in Bergen. (Just a few turns before it might have a chance a stealing, but, no matter, we will train better, smarter, irresistible spies from now on.)
Kiev: Spy > Airship (4). Peterburg: IA > Frigate (5). Astrakhan: Riflemen > Spy (1). Novorossijsk: IA > Frigate (4).
The lovely Yelizaveta Zarubina travels north to avoid plague, with eventual goal of Bergen.
We pillage one last horse pasture, then make peace with china, getting map, 130g, 7gpt. then we trade sheep for a hit football event. Airship takes a (rather late) look at China which confirms that it was a good idea to make peace.

Spoiler :

1880 (10) - Stability: +7, EPs/turn: 362
Plague spreads to Kiev.
Astrakhan: Spy > Spy (2). Artashat: Observatory > Jail (4). Kiev hurries Airship to get healthy.
Uranium is hooked up at Nodygrad and Buryngrad.
The Airship Oblonsky goes to Australia. The ravishing Maria Konnenkova sets out for Tashkent.

Notes:
- Yes, Tashkent has lasted this long, so why not? The other. Yelizaveta, and the unbuild spy, go to Bergen (next cheapest place for stealing techs).
- We have a lot of espionage on Vikings now. Probably can take Chemistry after waiting 5 turns, then ... ?
- Kiev is fairly likely (40, 50%) to give us a Great Spy in 10 turns.
- Forest preserves are almost in place around Nodygrad. It should work the uranium and run specialists instead of the forests. And of course, someday, this is our National Park city.

Housekeeping:
- A force of 3 rifles and 6 cannons is on its way back to Odessa (but I took the auto-move off).
- Garrisons need to be put back in Sankt-Peterburg and Carycin before anyone gets any ideas (especially Peterburg).
- Caravel near Japan has started home.

 

[Jusos2108]

Looks good!

Some thoughts:

-Perhaps it was the right move to adopt SP
-We need new spies ASAP
-We need to strenghten our army, particularly navy
-Does China have radio already? They do have electricity
-Are BurnEmDown and Nody still in?? If they don't show up in couple of days we should skip them, apparently onedreamer is still in
-A save

 

[BurnEmDown]

I'm still in on this, would appreciate the save though

 

[Danger Bird]

-We need new spies ASAP
-We need to strenghten our army, particularly navy
-Does China have radio already? They do have electricity
-A save

- 2 spies are trained, 1 more in 2 turns
- Yes, I am building frigates in both seas
- How do we find out if they have radio? (before we get electricity)
- sorry about that - here it is:

 

[BurnEmDown]

Turn 0 (1880) - Ordered one spy to Bukhara and the other to Tashkent, hopefully they won't flip before we can steal from them (first steal from Bukhara since it has more chance of flipping I think and it's cheaper).

Plague spread in Moskva. Vikings cancel defensive pact with us.

Turn 1 (1882) - Carthage wants to become our Vassal, decline. Jaroslavl, Cossack -> Cossack (3). Kiev, Airship -> Airship (2). Frankfurt, IA -> Jail (7). Marriage event: -1 relations with Vikings.
As AP resident I can vote for: Stop the war against Vikings\China. Stop trading with Khmer\Germany. I choose none obviously. A Russian revolt has occurred in Atina (would be a great city if it wasn't for all the Turkish culture around it). Exploring caravel has nothing left to explore, sent back to Sankt-Peterburg. Exploring airship explored all of Australia for us, it's mostly Indian except for Japanese Naha.

A foreign spy was caught operating near Smolensk.

Turn 2 (1884) - Moskva, Cossack -> Crossbowman (2, need a unit to stay here). Astrakhan, Spy -> Wealth. Nodygrad, IA -> Wealth. Carycin, IA -> University (10). Buryngrad, Confucian Academy -> Jail (4). New spy sent to Bukhara (doesn't seem to be at risk of flip now).

Turn 3 (1886) - Archangelsk, IA -> Customs House (4). Kiev, Airship -> Airship (5). Azov, Frigate -> Frigate (4). Novorossijsk, Frigate -> Frigate (5). Smolensk, IA -> Market (5). Smolensk is kinda in a bad shape, not enough food and Chinese culture is pressing on it. Odessa, University -> Jail (10).
Yelizaveta Reached Tashkent, Maria will reach Bukhara next turn.

A Turkish spy was caught near Smolensk.

Turn 4 (1888) - Zara Yaqob would like to vassalize, at annoyed! This really shows jsut how strong we are, declined. Moskva, Crossbowman -> Airship (2). Jaroslavl, Cossack -> Cossack (4). Sankt-Peterburg, Frigate -> Frigate (4). Artashat, Jail -> IA (7). Espionage is at 470pt BTW.

Camp north of Sankt-Peterburg destroyed by infiltrators.

Turn 5 (1890) - Electricity is in, Radio next (12). Foreign spy stumbled upon near Odessa. Science turned up to 80%, with 966bpt, -54gpt and a total of 524 gold. Radio will finish in 10 turns. Traded Communism to Portugal for 710 gold, we now have 1234 gold. Now that we have electricity I change all wealth and navy producing cities to Research institute, all other cities will build research institutes as soon as they're done with their production. Our gpt is down to -127, we may need to trade once again in a few turns (right now the only viable option is to trade communism to France for 700, but it has increased in the last few turns so it might be better to wait).

Turn 6 (1892) - The English want us to join the war against Turkey, decline. Buryngrad, Jail -> Observatory (5, required for research institute). Event in our northern borders gives +1 commerce in pots outside of any BFCs.

Turkish spy caught near Buryngrad.

Turn 7 (1894) - Archangelsk, Customs house -> Research institute (14). Atina flips, argh, can't check the city for wonders first, I disband it. Ethiopia becomes a vassal of Mali. Damn, France spent a lot of gold, and I wanted to trade with them now, they have 380 left. We'll have to put our research back to 70% I guess, next player should return it to 80% once we have a few institutes and cities are building wealth again.

Turn 8 (1896) - America wants Electricity and 70g for Democracy, decline. Viking spy caught near Odessa. Russian revolt has taken place at Tashkent, luckily our spy will reach 50% and steal next turn.

Turn 9 (1898) - Spy gets Chemistry from Tashkent. Nothing much happens besides this.

Turn 10 (1900) - GS born in Kiev, I will leave him for the next player. Again nothing much happened.

Notes: We now have a GS in Kiev and a spy in Moskva, I think stealing from the Chinese will be good, once we finish stealing from the Vikings. We have a spy ready to steal in Bukhara, but I'm not sure what. The choices are: Nationalism, Democracy, Corporation, Biology, and Steel. I think Corporation is out since we can research that in 2 turns and already got some beakers invested, and nationalism is out because we can trade it from the Khmer. Biology and Democracy both seem tasty, I think Biology will be best for now, an instant bonus instead of the option to build Bureaus which we will build only after institutes anyway.
Our military is strong but could be better, again, only after main buildings are done we should focus on improving the military. Once Radio is in though our highest-production city (Moskva) should work on Christo Redentor ASAP.
And one final note: We have a lot of workers with nothing to do, maybe build more windmills\workshops?