Workers of the world, unite! [RFC RAND]

Some big cities (as well as the National Park city) could do well building Nuclear Plants (the unhealthiness is just unsightly).
I say China should be killed next. All troops over there. A DP with a suitable partner like Japan might be good to surround him.
Just make sure stability is good so we can capture ALL of China.
 
Got it. When I look at the save I'll post some points about my war plan, just in case there are some gaping flaws.

I think with tanks we didn't need nukes, but anyways...

We need to get a move right now or we will win by score. If this is the plan, I might as well drop now as I'm not really interested in such an outcome. We still need to unite the workers of the world ;)

Absolutely. Domination is still the aim. ( :mischief: I say this while not looking at the game or the current stats.)

Just make sure stability is good so we can capture ALL of China.

That's the difficult part. I think this means we should capture the good, main Chinese cities, not raze cities, and let the marginal ones go independent with the inevitable collapse.
 
Find out in which city China has the Cristo Redentor and capture that ASAP, after we have it, we should immeatidely adopt Police State, Emancipation, Free Religion and Occupation. That will keep our stability up. Liberating some Chinese cities, that we don't want, to the Khmers is also a good idea.

EDIT: Danger Bird, if you take a screenshot of China we can discuss, which cities to keep and which to give to Khmers, where the CR is, etc. I would but I can't until later tonight.
 
Allright, there are actually only two Chinese cities that should be razed: Luoyang and Kasgar. The CR is in Beijing together with Pentagon, so we should take Xian first and then Beijing. Hangzhou should definetly be spared, since it hosts about ten wonders, including two shrines. Actually we get all the wonders we want from China!:D

Civ4ScreenShot0130.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0129.jpg
 
Thanks, Jusos, for the screens and the plan.

Sorry I couldn't get started earlier. Here is the situation at turn 0:

We can get a DF with Japan by trading them gold; they ask for alum at first. Also can get DF with Portugal that could help us on the front with France by attracting their forces.
Spoiler :
Workers1947_DFJapan.jpg

Workers1947_DFPortugal.jpg


Here is a plan for the invasion of China. Looks like it will take minimum of 11 turns to get Xi'an and Beijing, if all goes well.
Workers1947_Chinaplan.jpg



Now, here is the bad news. I have played into turn 1, but it seems that I won't be able to continue playing until Sunday. So, if BurnEmDown can play sooner, I can swap with him. Or, if not, and everyone is willing to wait, I will pick it up then.

If we decide that I play, I have a question:
I could start right away with a rolling start, building bombers and more land forces as I go, because China didn't look that well defended last time we did recon. But, how do we get the war started? (We will lose our DFs if we declare war, won't we?)
 
Just make sure that we get the right DOW's (i.e. don't declare on France because we want Portugal to auto-declare on France; we can declare on China, but if there's another 3rd party in their alliance like Turkey, declaring on the latter is even better so we can involve Portugal AND Japan in the war) and to defend the Turkish border really well.
"Make a sound in the east, then strike in the west." (except that in this case we're doing the opposite)
 
I think we can easily wait until sunday, so no problem.

As for other things, we don't have tanks yet, so you should wait couple turns before starting the war. Also if things get tricky, we can launch a nuke on the horse between Beijing and Hangzhou; only couple tiles would be contaminated.
 
I would have no problem playing, except that I'm not so good in wars and this is a critical position, we can't take any risks.
So waiting it is for me, but if the majority wants to continue playing then I'll play and do my best.
 
@BurnEmDown: if you want, IMO you can play, so that Danger Bird can play on sunday. I doubt that anybody minds and I know that you'll do just fine kicking some Chinese ass.:D
 
In 1947, Russia's diplomatic preparations for war began in earnest. In 1949, Russia declared war on the Turks, igniting a world war that included every nation on the globe. An offensive was unleashed on China, using all weaponry available at the time - bombers and fighters, artillery, tanks, and soon helicopter gunships - while a steely defence was kept against Turkey. The Russian navy dominated the Black sea with its destroyers, decimating the Turkish navy and its fishing industry. In the west, the Vikings, Portuguese, and French captured the remaining independent city-states, and then turned one side (Scandinavia and Portugal) against the other (France).

1947 (0)
We got a DF with Japan by trading them gold; they asked for alum at first. Also formed a DF with Portugal that could help us on the front with France by drawing their forces. So, the two blocks are lined up as follows. Russia-Japan-Portugal vs. China-Turkey-France. And we don't know what the Vikings might do.
Spoiler :
Workers1947_friendly.jpg

Workers1947_friendly.jpg

Reduced science to 10% to get 1500g for upgrades to artillery, etc. Rearranged the regiments in the east, boosting the offence in Smolensk and the defence in Buryngrad.

IBT
Vikings offered us München, declined. The AP resolution gave us no good choices, I thought.
Spoiler :
Workers1948_APresolutions.jpg


1948 (1)
Research back up to 50%.
2 spies sent to Bergen.
Reconnaissance report: China's defence appears competent but thin (2 infantry and 1 SAM guarding most cities, and a few marines). The cities will not be hard to take, but moving between them will be treacherous. Turkey has airships and a large cavalry force in Samsun, just south of Buryngrad.
Workers1978_Chinadefence.jpg


IBT
Turkish spy caught near Buryngrad. The USA builds Hollywood.

1949 (2)
Research up to 60%.
Further upgrades in Buryngrad. Frigates guard the fishing boats at the opening to the Azov Sea, and one in port is upgraded to destroyer.
War is declared on Turkey, and the world erupts in domino declarations (5 minutes of them).
We lose our corn from USA. Trades set up with Portugal (for corn) and India (for bananas). All cities but Novgorod healthy again.
Eastern army advances into Chinese forest E of Smolensk.
Workers1949_WorldWar.jpg


IBT
Defeat 2 Turkish frigates near Novorossijsk, and 2 Turkish airships at Buryngrad.
Turkey declares war on the Vikings, so they and England are now effectively on our side!
China takes Guangzhou back from Japan.

1950 (3)
Research to 70%.
Coal plants in Moskva, Kiev, and Astrakhan. Some cities now unhealthy, but bombers and tanks are ordered ahead of hospitals.
Sell Communism to England (490g) and Khmer, Japan, Carthage, for a total of 960g for upgrades.
Recon: Chinese forces still spread thinly; it appears that they are concentrating on their offensive against Japanese mainland cities to the north.

IBT
For the past two turns, Turks have (insanely!) attacked Buryngrad with 1 or 2 cavalry regiments, which die or retreat.

1951 (4) Triumphal Arch erected in Moskva, and Russian Golden Age begins.
Satellites > Advanced Flight (3) (Spies will take Plastics from Vikings in 2 or 3 turns)
Pillage fishing tiles in Alanya Bay.
Workers1951_pillagefishing.jpg


IBT
UN resolution (Universal Suffrage) put to vote: Never! (It fails next turn, though most voted for it, and 7 nations are in Universal Suffrage, causing some happiness problems.)
Chinese now have captured Hakodate as well.

1952 (5)
The bombing and shelling of Xi'an reduces its defences to 0%.

1953 (6)
Culture up to 10%, to deal with unhappiness. Research down to 60%.
Jaroslavl completes the Manhattan Project and commences work on an ICBM, Buryngrad starts a tactical nuke.
A Great Spy emerges in Novgorod. (I had been hoping for a 9%-chance Great Engineer, for the Three Gorges Dam, but no luck.) Send the GS towards England/Scandinavia.
Air strikes, artillery attacks (lose 2 arty), and assault of Xi'an: Opasnost Pticy Infantry, 1st and 5th Horsemen take the city.
Workers1953_captureXian.jpg


1954 (7)
Azov, one of few cities that has spare health with a coal plant, starts an airport. Other major cities are now building hospitals (if losing pop) or tanks and bombers.

IBT
Chinese forces attack Xi'an (of course still revolting), we lose one infantry. India takes a Turkish city in southeast (Margu). (never seen that name before; perhaps it was Merv)

1955 (8)
Advanced Flight > ? (steal Plastics from Vikings this turn, so) Composites.
Switch espionage to France (to take Computers), send GS and spy there.
Jaroslavl builds first ICBM > Three Gorges Dam (10).
Leningrad: Drydock > Battleship.
Start building some gunships.


IBT
French take Vienne, and build Trois Gorges :mad:. Dutch respawn. Japan volunteers to vassalise: yes.

1956
Rifling, Flight, and Electricity to our new vassal Japan for 280g and map. (Perhaps should have just given it to them, so they could upgrade.)
Rethink espionage, now that Dutch are back on the scene. Yes, it is much cheaper to take Computers in Aken: GS and spy sent there.

IBT
French take Köln the turn after Vikings took it, and a front with the French is opening in the west. We enhance defences in Frankfurt and Archangelsk.

1957
The Great Spy inflitrates Aken.
Make peace with Mali and their vassal Egypt, because we have no need to be a war with them and it might reduce war weariness, getting 8gpt and map.
Give Portugal Flight for 150g.
Offensive force leaves Xi'an for Beijing, now strengthened with tanks and gunships, and jet fighter cover.

Notes:
  • We can steal computers from Netherlands in about 2 or 3 turns, once we get to a 20% or 30% discount.
  • We can probably take Beijing in 1960 or 1961. Then I think the plan should be Hangzhou (keep), Louyang (raze), then north.
  • We can add newly built units to the Turkish force, which can start in a few turns. I think we should aim to keep Istanbul, Persepolis, Alanya, Babil, Mekke, Eridu, Basra and raze the rest.
  • Happiness problems: Not sure when it started, maybe since the beginning of the war, but we now have the modifier "The world considers you a villain!", and, with the war unhappiness and lack of emancipation, it is making some cities unhappy. I am building some amphitheatres(!).

Spoiler war plans :
Chinaplan.jpg

Turkeyplan.jpg
 

Attachments

Nice job. I would get Turkey and France to sign peace ASAP, we can capitulate them later. We need the UN to be able to disallow nukes after we've made some.:D
Fly troops into Xian every turn if possible.
 
Got it. I'll try to raze the Turkish city south of Buryngrad, to give it some breathing space. This will probably convince the Turks to accept peace.
 
Why should we make peace with them?? After we get Beijing, Hangzhou and Hancheng, China will collapse in couple of turns. Then we should focus on Turkey. Making peace with them is the worst idea, since it would take ten turns until we can redeclare. While our focus is on Turkey some of our troops can easily conquer the independents and gift the cities we don't want to either Japan or Khmer.

And the happiness problems will be solved after we take Beijing, Hangzhou and Hangcheng: CR --> Police State, Emancipation, Free Religion. Wembley+Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame --> tons of happiness!!:D

BTW: "World considers you a villain" penalty occurs after you defy two resolutions. I defied free speech and Danger Bird defied universal suffrage.

EDIT: We don't have too many turns left..

EDIT2: How did we get the GA, if check my screenies, you clearly see that the 1/3 is light gray, which has to mean that we have lost a city, since it is before 1950. Or is the deadline for Apollo Program different in RAND?:confused:
 
No, the 1/3 isn't light grey, it's white. (compare it to the other civs' 1/3 like China) We never lost a city (conferences don't count).
You forget the little small fact that we have to get all our troops (with some healing) over from China to Turkey before we can make a dent there. It's best to make a ceasefire with Turkey (at least with France) so that we don't get surprised, and Turks maybe (since we REALLY need to get Cristo Redentor first to switch to police state/occupation etc and that'll take at least 10 turns.
 
How did we get the GA, if check my screenies, you clearly see that the 1/3 is light gray, which has to mean that we have lost a city, since it is before 1950. Or is the deadline for Apollo Program different in RAND?:confused:
We had two of the UHV conditions:
- build ? cities at a distance ? tiles away
- never lose a city before 1950
(deadline for Apollo is also 1950)

So we had 1/3 until 1950, then on 1951 we had 2/3.

Why should we make peace with them?? After we get Beijing, Hangzhou and Hancheng, China will collapse in couple of turns. Then we should focus on Turkey. Making peace with them is the worst idea, since it would take ten turns until we can redeclare. While our focus is on Turkey some of our troops can easily conquer the independents and gift the cities we don't want to either Japan or Khmer.
I was also thinking that we could heat up the war with Turkey soon (i.e. no need to make peace) but I am not sure now. There are enough forces in China to win that front slowly (i.e. healing after conquering), but not enough to conquer it quickly (i.e. conquering city 1 with Army A then conquering city 2 with Army B, while Army A heals).

So making peace with Turkey (perhaps after razing Samsun) sounds like a good idea. Then we can use all new forces to roll through China with 2 armies, and 10 or so turns later we can roll through Turkey even faster with 2 or 3 armies.

I don't think we have any interest in fighting France, because taking cities there will not give us much territory. So make peace with France at earliest opportunity.
 
You are all forgetting that our cities will be pumping out tanks and bombers from now on, building everything else is futile. These troops should take down Turkey or maybe 5-10 tanks should be sent against the Chinese to quicken their fall. You can sign peace with France and that's probably a good idea, but has AI ever really surprised anybody?!
 
Turn 1 (1958) - Moskva: Gunship -> Gunship (1). Archangelsk: Hospital -> Airport (5). Azov: Airport -> Bomber (3). Novorossijsk: Stock Exchange -> Tank (3). Novgorod: Public Transportation -> Tank (2).

Resolution comes up to stop the war with France, I vote yes. As Resident of the Apostolic Palace, I can vote for war with France. Since I'm pretty sure the first vote will be rejected, I might as well get more people against France (Even China could be at war with them).
Chinese attack force moves towards Beijing, Turkish attack force sets off from Buryngrad and it seems Samsun is protected mostly by cavalry which will easily die.
I notice that I can make peace with the French and get 35g, but we'll do it the next turn so we won't re-declare on them maybe.

Interturn - Chinese spy caught near Smolensk, our spy caught near Aken.

Turn 2 (1959) - Moskva: Gunship -> Tank (3). Jaroslavl: ICBM -> ICBM (3). Leningrad: Battleship -> Attack Submarine (6). Smolensk: Paratrooper -> Tank (5). Buryngrad: Tactical Nuke -> Industrial Park (5).
UN Peacekeeping mission fails, Toku, Ragnar, Churchill, and Huayna vote never.
Declare war on infidels succeeds! Now China, Netherlands, Turkey, and a few others will have to declare war on France!
They are now at war with almost the entire world:
90596155.jpg


We make peace though, and get 115 gold. Once we'll take care of China and Turkey, we can steamroll them.
Our golden age is over, but we are doing just fine nonetheless, it's time to use some nukes!

First, we will test our small-range tactical nuke in Buryngrad, and use it on the outskirts of Samsun to see just what these nukes can do. Behold, the destructive power of nukes:
sg17.jpg


Samsun is entirely wiped out, and as our troops enter the city we find it to be completely destroyed. Instead our troops march towards Istanbul.

Now that we know of the destructive powers we hold, we will not be afraid to use them against our enemies, however, the Chinese army is rather small, and using nukes on them will not only be a waste, but will also render their lands unworkable. We will save our nukes and use them only in an emergency, while continuing to stock up on more nukes.

On the other hand, after advancing towards the Chinese mainland, we find that most of their army is actually in Hangzhou, so we use one nuke to destroy it all entirely, while clearing a path for our main stack to take Beijing as well.
The Chinese army at Beijing is severely weakened, we don't take it yet as we'll lose too many troops in the following Chinese counter-strike, but we clear it of any resistance.
I boost research to 80% so we can finish Composites in one turn and start making main battle tanks.
GS was born in Azov and I save him until we can bulb something other than computers which we can steal from the Dutch.
GG was born in Moskva and I send him to China to help our troops. It will take him some time to get to our main stack though.

Interturn: A spy has been caught in Novgorod, we lose a Tank to China's anti-tank near Beijing.

Turn 3 (1960) - Khmer ask for Sheep in exchange for Gold, I accept. Composites is in, I take Ecology since we'll need it soon to scrub fallout.
Kiev: Gunship -> Tank (4). Astrakhan: Tank -> Battleship (4). Novgorod: Tank -> Tank (4). Carycin: Airport -> Bomber (3). Artshat: Airport -> Bomber (3). Frankfurt: Research Institute -> Tactical Nuke (9).

After a few attacks (and some losses...) we take Beijing. I switch to Occupation, Police State, Free Religion, and Emancipation (I don't use Slavery this late in the game). Our army in Beijing should focus on taking Hangzhou now which is heavily fortified, we could use another nuke but it'll still be hard without enough Tanks. In the meanwhile I send a few troops towards Xi'an and they will attack Louyang. The Turks aren't a threat at all and once we capture Istanbul (which is guarded mostly by Cavalry) we can steamroll their cities which are protected only by a handful of riflemen.

Interturn: A spy in Smolensk poisons our water supply. Fishing boat near Novorossijsk were razed by a Turkish ship.

Turn 4 (1961) - Novorossijsk: Tank -> Fishing boat (1). Azov: Bomber -> Battleship (5). Moskva: Tank -> Tank (2).
China is collapsing, we might have a much easier time taking their cities than I thought.

Turn 5 (1962) - Jaroslavl: ICBM -> ICBM (3). Novorossijsk: Fishing boat -> Battleship (4). Carycin: Bomber -> Bomber (3).
Xi'an comes out of revolt, our troops are almost ready to continue the attack. On the Turkish front, our forces have reached Istanbul and will be able to take it in a few turns.

I take a stop here, and I'll finish my turnset in a few hours. In the meantime you can view my progress and give me some tips or plans. It could help since I'm not progressing as good as I thought.
 

Attachments

You are doing great!:goodjob: Just get the bombers to China ASAP, with them and couple of main battle tanks Hangzhou should easily fall. Also we need more MBTs, so perhaps all cities should build them for a while. IMO razing Luoyang isn't a priority, so concentrate all efforts against Hangzhou. Taking it will initiate the Chinese collapsion. After Hangzhou is ours turn the bombers against Luoyang and raze it with the new MBTs, while main army rests in Hangzhou/Beijing.
 
Actually we can't built MBT yet. I noticed it but forgot to check why.
 
I think you need computers for MBTs. Besides, once we build the Internet we can turn research practically to zero except for military techs. I would rather some of our money build culture to combat the instability from little culture, and it'll help with the land domination goal.
 
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