Pellaken
The one and only.
I think we all feel this way.
World History in the making!
- Thread starter Warlord Sam
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I think we all feel this way.
dannyevilcat
DESTROYER OF FURNITURE
Actually I was wondering if Pellaken, rmsharpe and TubaGuy were in the same class together, not realizing... 
knowltok2
Deity
Merely speculating here, so no one blast me for generalizing. It could seem to be more of an event to the younger generation because it is the first time they really felt external (from the US) fear. You and I grew up with the tail end of the Cold War, and while some signs may have been there to see the eventual colapse, grade school kids like my self only saw the graphics in the magazines with the red and blue missles of various sizes sprinkled on a world map. We also saw what we now think of as 'quaint' movies about nuclear apocalypse. These things and the nightly new brought the fear that someday our good life could end.
Today's 16 year old was only 5 during the Gulf War, and even that wasn't very frightening, really. They have grown up in a world that had, for the most part, not brought its harsh reality home to them before 9/11. This is still a new danger and fear to them. You and I had years to adjust to the threat of nuclear war, and then were able from an older perspective to watch that threat recede. I will always remember my childhood fears of nuclear war, and the Soviet bad guys. In thruth, they represent the first thing that I as a child became aware of that my parents couldn't protect me from. That happened much much younger than 16, but the point is that being the first, it has left a very lasting impression on me.
Perhaps that came close to a mark, or maybe it was way off base. Once again, I am speculating about the mindset of today's youth, and freely admit that, so no one blast me too hard.
Well, I was in high school during the Gulf War and had a couple of cousins fighting in Iraq. I live in New York City, a block from the Empire State building, and I have to say that the 9/11 had a much larger effect upon me. During the Gulf War I never once feared for my life or really even the lives of my relatives who were atually fighting. 9/11 just hit a lot closer to home for most in America, particularly those of us who were within earshot of the events. So I think the fact that some people are saying this is their most memorable experience is to be expected. However, I must say that the cold war stadoff and fear of nuclear war is a close second for me, and was only enhanced when the classic Red Dawn came out.
knowltok2
Deity
I can go along with that. The movie may not have been entirely realistic, but I was young enough that it seemed a reasonable scenario at the time.
:tank:Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
MMMmmmm, yes. Red Dawn. The perfect combination of cheese and substance - much like the Big Mac sandwich. You can't beleive you like it, but oh do you love it.
It was on PayTV back when there was only one pay TV channel in Canada, about 10 million times. I watched it about that often.
It was on PayTV back when there was only one pay TV channel in Canada, about 10 million times. I watched it about that often.
that movie is a perfect example of what a lot of us were taught to fear growing up. It did a good job of painting a picture of what the Soviets were like for American (and I guess Canadian) youngsters at the time. I loved that movie, however unrealistic it was. And I can partly thank it for my hatred of everything communist to this day...
Sodak
Paha Sapa Papa
Knowltok2, you may be right about the age gap. I was in my early 20s when the gulf skirmish happened (sorry, war just seems like too strong a word for that). I lived in the netherlands at the time. But as a US citizen, my main fear was that it would escalate into a real war, and that the draft might be reinstated. 
Hindsight shows that that was a silly notion, but at the time, who knew the Iraqis would run out of ammo so soon? Anyway, the cold war nuke threat was much more intimidating in the 70s and 80s - especially with yahoos at the helm on both sides. Anyway, my 9-years-younger sister has no recollection of cold war tension, the gulf war is just a vague memory by name only.
That's maybe why the Berlin Wall being taken down seems like a larger event to me - 9/11, to me, was more of a wake up call to younger people that world events can hit close to home. And to those older who simply never thought about world events.
Hindsight shows that that was a silly notion, but at the time, who knew the Iraqis would run out of ammo so soon? Anyway, the cold war nuke threat was much more intimidating in the 70s and 80s - especially with yahoos at the helm on both sides. Anyway, my 9-years-younger sister has no recollection of cold war tension, the gulf war is just a vague memory by name only.That's maybe why the Berlin Wall being taken down seems like a larger event to me - 9/11, to me, was more of a wake up call to younger people that world events can hit close to home. And to those older who simply never thought about world events.
allhailIndia
Deity
I must very honestly say that I was looking for FRIENDS on the telly when I happened to see the FOX coverage of the 9/11 incident.
I at first thought that it was a major accident and then came to realize that it was infact a terrorist attack
But I understand what happened to most Americans partly because a similar situation erupted in Bangalore when a popular filmstar was kidnapped by a bandit(I am downright dead serious about this).
Mobs were tearing apart shops and burning tyres on the roads while my sister and myself were stuck at school, with no way to get out.!!!
In fact, I did'nt believe at first, because it was incredulous that people would go around causing chaos over a kidnapping.
Actually, the filmstar, Dr. Rajkumar(honorary doctorate BTW, he did'nt make it past 3rd grade ), was an icon of the Kannada language (my mother tongue) and has fans running into millions.
THe best ( ) part about this was that we got 2 weeks( that's right two whole weeks) of holidays because of "the prevailing situation". He was released 108 days later due to poor health.
God those were the best 2 weeks of that year
I at first thought that it was a major accident and then came to realize that it was infact a terrorist attack
But I understand what happened to most Americans partly because a similar situation erupted in Bangalore when a popular filmstar was kidnapped by a bandit(I am downright dead serious about this).
Mobs were tearing apart shops and burning tyres on the roads while my sister and myself were stuck at school, with no way to get out.!!!
In fact, I did'nt believe at first, because it was incredulous that people would go around causing chaos over a kidnapping.
Actually, the filmstar, Dr. Rajkumar(honorary doctorate BTW, he did'nt make it past 3rd grade
), was an icon of the Kannada language (my mother tongue) and has fans running into millions.THe best (
) part about this was that we got 2 weeks( that's right two whole weeks) of holidays because of "the prevailing situation". He was released 108 days later due to poor health.God those were the best 2 weeks of that year
Case
The horror, the horror
seeing as this has turned into a 'where were you when you heard about the Sept 11 attacks' thread, here's my story.
The attacks occured a few minutes before midnight Australian time, so I was asleep when everything was going on.
The first thing I knew about the attacks was the next morning when my dad woke me up (for the first time ever) waving a newspaper in my face. Once I got past my shock, I ran for the TV, which I watched all day.
The attacks occured a few minutes before midnight Australian time, so I was asleep when everything was going on.
The first thing I knew about the attacks was the next morning when my dad woke me up (for the first time ever) waving a newspaper in my face. Once I got past my shock, I ran for the TV, which I watched all day.
philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
when iheard about9/11 i didnt really cared.
i am still not cared.this is mayby offending but its far away from our country so we dont care mayby official but next day at school nobody talked about it they where not intersted they didnt cared
i dont care
they will never attack our country(sometimes its good to live in a small unknown country)
but now...when i read all of this i am getting a little symphathy for the americans(except bush jr screw him)and it now to hope if you go paranoa and closing your country for everythone or that you will learn of it
those terrorist have not said:hey im bored let uss fly a plane in the wtc.it was a message of hatred and that message must get a counter message of love
i am still not cared.this is mayby offending but its far away from our country so we dont care mayby official but next day at school nobody talked about it they where not intersted they didnt cared
i dont care
they will never attack our country(sometimes its good to live in a small unknown country)
but now...when i read all of this i am getting a little symphathy for the americans(except bush jr screw him)and it now to hope if you go paranoa and closing your country for everythone or that you will learn of it
those terrorist have not said:hey im bored let uss fly a plane in the wtc.it was a message of hatred and that message must get a counter message of love
Flatlander Fox
Armed Cultural Consultant
I was in Germany, outside on a smoke-break when a guy walked up to me and said "Seen the news?"
I went inside and turned on the radio in our shop. Maybe 10 minutes later we were alerted (I'm in the military). It was surreal.
I called my wife, who stayed home from work that day after seeing the news. She was crying, and as tough as Mrs. Fox is, that moment unnerved me more than any other that day.
After a very late night, the next morning I drove onto the base around 0530 in the morning. Outside of the gate were thousands of candles, flowers, cards, and flags. All from the local population. It was amazing.
The part of not knowing when we might be sent to go somewhere, to find whoever did this to us was also difficult. Alot of strain.
I won't ever forget walking around the city that I lived in and nearly losing control of my emotions when people told me how sorry they were that this had happened, and how it affected everybody in the world, not just America.
It's something I won't ever forget.
My brother was in the Gulf-War, and we were sweating bullets until the day he came home.
I watched the Berlin Wall fall, but was not old enough to appreciate what it meant. Coming from one of my in-laws (who is German) "It was madness! Nobody believed it at all, so we all drove up to the border to find out if it was a lie or not. We drove up, and there were East Germans doing the same thing. We all just looked at each other and started huggin each other and crying. All the while wondering if the guards were going to shoot us."
History is best held in the eyes of who it affects most I guess.
I went inside and turned on the radio in our shop. Maybe 10 minutes later we were alerted (I'm in the military). It was surreal.
I called my wife, who stayed home from work that day after seeing the news. She was crying, and as tough as Mrs. Fox is, that moment unnerved me more than any other that day.
After a very late night, the next morning I drove onto the base around 0530 in the morning. Outside of the gate were thousands of candles, flowers, cards, and flags. All from the local population. It was amazing.
The part of not knowing when we might be sent to go somewhere, to find whoever did this to us was also difficult. Alot of strain.
I won't ever forget walking around the city that I lived in and nearly losing control of my emotions when people told me how sorry they were that this had happened, and how it affected everybody in the world, not just America.
It's something I won't ever forget.
My brother was in the Gulf-War, and we were sweating bullets until the day he came home.
I watched the Berlin Wall fall, but was not old enough to appreciate what it meant. Coming from one of my in-laws (who is German) "It was madness! Nobody believed it at all, so we all drove up to the border to find out if it was a lie or not. We drove up, and there were East Germans doing the same thing. We all just looked at each other and started huggin each other and crying. All the while wondering if the guards were going to shoot us."
History is best held in the eyes of who it affects most I guess.
History_Buff
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2001
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- 6,529
YEs, I also think this is somewhat of an elaborate excuse for the Americans to go head hunting again. This is the exact same thing that happened at Pearl 50 years ago, and they have been preparing for it to happen again. seems George W. is kinda like a modern FDR.
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
? How exactly ?
This question applies to all aspects of your post, btw.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
What simplistic, disgusting tripe. I mean that in its complementary sense.
Didn't care then; don't really care now. How very heartening and human of you. I think it says a lot about your levels of empathy and connection with the real world.
You think that they will never attack your little country? How very jolly.
Here's some news for you: They don't like Belgium either. They hate all of the West and see it as satanic. If not stopped and destroyed, they will come for you, boy. It is time to realize that.
"Counter message of love?" What in heavens name are you talking about, kid?!? These c**ts murder thousands of innocents in order to advance their own sick, medieval cause, and you want us to love them?
The counter message they have got is that they will be hunted down and destroyed. Every last one of these miserable bastards. And that is the only message which will prevent them from working their evil again.
And Red Dawn...I remember that one. Damn those Ruskie paratroopers!
allhailIndia
Deity
Could'nt agree more with you pal!!
Let's kick some fundmantalist butt!!
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
How come you never say what country you're in?
philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
you didnt read my post good!
offending me he?
i said i have no a sympathy for americans
and about the terrorists
i you kill one terrorist his family is angered they send 5 of their family.those 5 are killed they will send 20 and etc...
i mean those people only attack america because they hate it.
you know why they hate us?
because of the crusades.we destroyed their culture for a while turning a rather paeceful religion into a religion of hatred.so we are actually guilty up to a piont
but i am against terrorist and i think they where a bunch of lunatic madman
offending me he?
i said i have no a sympathy for americans
and about the terrorists
i you kill one terrorist his family is angered they send 5 of their family.those 5 are killed they will send 20 and etc...
i mean those people only attack america because they hate it.
you know why they hate us?
because of the crusades.we destroyed their culture for a while turning a rather paeceful religion into a religion of hatred.so we are actually guilty up to a piont
but i am against terrorist and i think they where a bunch of lunatic madman
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
You analysis of the Crusades is so manifestly incorrect that it is laughable.
We can and will kill all the terrorist scum who are "sent" at us, and go after their base roots.
Plain and simple.
We can and will kill all the terrorist scum who are "sent" at us, and go after their base roots.
Plain and simple.
Philippe wrote:
you know why they hate us?
because of the crusades.we destroyed their culture for a while turning a rather paeceful religion into a religion of hatred.so we are actually guilty up to a piont but i am against terrorist and i think they where a bunch of lunatic madman
Simon was right, you're way off on this one. Modern Moslem nationalists have a self-serving description of the Crusades that portrays them as the 11th century-equivelant of 19th century European imperialism, but the motivations, organization, identities and principals of those involved with the Crusades was completely different from modern imperialists. Modern Arab and Moslem nationalists need a scapegoat to explain away why the first Islamic empire imploded. It looks better if they can blame it on evil foreigners rather than having to examine causes closer to home - especially since Islamicist extremists are essentially trying to re-create that first (Arab) Islamic empire today (much in the same way early Europe attempted to recreate the Roman Empire through the mis-named "Holy Roman Empire").
As for the Gulf War Memory Lane topic, I was a student in Hungary and had just returned from spending a semester working back in Poland so I was living in a dumpy little temporary apartment. I remember waking up and sliding to the end of the bed and turning the radio on. They had the news that the airstrikes had begun, and they quoted snippets of President Bush's speech. I remember feeling a bit sick when I heard all this, though in general I supported what was happening. My university town was awash with students from all over the world, mostly the Third World, and I knew several Iraqis. I remember wondering when they'd talked to their families last. That night I was in a popular student bar with an American friend when a very obviously Arab student stumbled over, quite drunk (!), and put his arms around both of us and asked if we knew where he was from. Waiting any moment for a knife in the ribs, we meekly answered something like, "Maybe". He laughed and said he was Kuwaiti, and insisted on buying us a drink. That next month or so saw Hungarians exposed via their regular news shows tons of CNN footage of the war, and it made a very deep impression. Just months before the country had still been a Warsaw Treaty/Pact state, and the unspoken sentiment was something like, "Moscow expected us to fight against THAT?"
As for September 11, I was in Poland visiting the in-laws. We were in a northern city helping my sisters-in-law get set up with their first apartment for university when I'd taken the 11th off as a personal holiday to do some historical sight-seeing. I met an old friend and we toured together, though she had to take an afternoon break for business so I headed over to a net cafe to contect friends here in the U.S. It was a little after 2.00 p.m. or so when I did this, about 8.00 a.m. New York time. When I came out at a pre-arranged time and met my friend again she said some plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. I vaguely recalled seeing pictures of a bomber in World War II crashing accidentally into the Empire State Building, so I assumed one of the many tourist planes that buzz New York had accidentally lost control or something. We went about our day and at about 6.00 or so we headed back to my sisters-in-law's new pad where my wife and everyone was going to do a dinner together. Well, they had the TV on, and I saw with amazement what had really happened. They live in a block apartment building, so people were coming up and down the stairs and walking in and out of the apartment to express shock, anger, etc. I remember one girl whom I didn't know crying, and saying this would be World War III. We were making dinner by now and moving between the kitchen and the livingroom TV, although I was in shock and fairly useless, and at one point I remember my wife saying that the towers had collapsed. I told her that was ridiculous (remembering the 1993 bombing attempt), and when I went back into the livingroom and heard them say it for myself I was about to launch into a lecture about the bad quality of Polish news reportingh when they showed the pictures of them collapsing. I just stood there stunned.
About two weeks before coming to Poland my company had sent me on a sales call to a client on the 51st floor of the World Trade Center. I'm a researcher and usually don't accompany the sales folks on their calls - they like to keep us locked up away from view - but there I was in the last week of August on my first ever time up in the towers. I had travelled through the PATH station below many times but had never been up in the towers themselves before - nor will I ever again be. I still have my security pass. For a couple months I kept thinking about all the people I'd met, I walked in my dreams through their office, and wondered how many were still alive. They were all young people just starting their careers. I didn't have any special relationship with them, and if this hadn't happened I'm sure I wouldn't remember any of them by now - but it did happen and I felt after 9/11 almost as if I had been walking through a mausoleum that day. Months later I learned by chance through an article in an industry report that everyone in that particular company had been able to escape - they were only on the 51st floor after all - and what a relief that was for me for some weird reason. The human mind is a strange thing.
The Polish TV stations kept a 24-hour news vigil for 3 straight days before returning to regular programming. The American Embassy in Warsaw had a huge pile of flowers and candles left on its front sidewalk. In the communist years many Polish engineers had to work in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and other Third World Soviet-allied states and I was surprised how many expressed very strong opinions against Arabs and Moslems. It made me realize how deep the cultural differences are between the West and the Middle East; there is a chasm between us that negates the ability to find common cultural ground on which we can meet. As someone steeped in history I know there is much common cultural history between the two cultures, but this is often ignored by extremists on both sides with agendas.
you know why they hate us?
because of the crusades.we destroyed their culture for a while turning a rather paeceful religion into a religion of hatred.so we are actually guilty up to a piont but i am against terrorist and i think they where a bunch of lunatic madman
Simon was right, you're way off on this one. Modern Moslem nationalists have a self-serving description of the Crusades that portrays them as the 11th century-equivelant of 19th century European imperialism, but the motivations, organization, identities and principals of those involved with the Crusades was completely different from modern imperialists. Modern Arab and Moslem nationalists need a scapegoat to explain away why the first Islamic empire imploded. It looks better if they can blame it on evil foreigners rather than having to examine causes closer to home - especially since Islamicist extremists are essentially trying to re-create that first (Arab) Islamic empire today (much in the same way early Europe attempted to recreate the Roman Empire through the mis-named "Holy Roman Empire").
As for the Gulf War Memory Lane topic, I was a student in Hungary and had just returned from spending a semester working back in Poland so I was living in a dumpy little temporary apartment. I remember waking up and sliding to the end of the bed and turning the radio on. They had the news that the airstrikes had begun, and they quoted snippets of President Bush's speech. I remember feeling a bit sick when I heard all this, though in general I supported what was happening. My university town was awash with students from all over the world, mostly the Third World, and I knew several Iraqis. I remember wondering when they'd talked to their families last. That night I was in a popular student bar with an American friend when a very obviously Arab student stumbled over, quite drunk (!), and put his arms around both of us and asked if we knew where he was from. Waiting any moment for a knife in the ribs, we meekly answered something like, "Maybe". He laughed and said he was Kuwaiti, and insisted on buying us a drink. That next month or so saw Hungarians exposed via their regular news shows tons of CNN footage of the war, and it made a very deep impression. Just months before the country had still been a Warsaw Treaty/Pact state, and the unspoken sentiment was something like, "Moscow expected us to fight against THAT?"
As for September 11, I was in Poland visiting the in-laws. We were in a northern city helping my sisters-in-law get set up with their first apartment for university when I'd taken the 11th off as a personal holiday to do some historical sight-seeing. I met an old friend and we toured together, though she had to take an afternoon break for business so I headed over to a net cafe to contect friends here in the U.S. It was a little after 2.00 p.m. or so when I did this, about 8.00 a.m. New York time. When I came out at a pre-arranged time and met my friend again she said some plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. I vaguely recalled seeing pictures of a bomber in World War II crashing accidentally into the Empire State Building, so I assumed one of the many tourist planes that buzz New York had accidentally lost control or something. We went about our day and at about 6.00 or so we headed back to my sisters-in-law's new pad where my wife and everyone was going to do a dinner together. Well, they had the TV on, and I saw with amazement what had really happened. They live in a block apartment building, so people were coming up and down the stairs and walking in and out of the apartment to express shock, anger, etc. I remember one girl whom I didn't know crying, and saying this would be World War III. We were making dinner by now and moving between the kitchen and the livingroom TV, although I was in shock and fairly useless, and at one point I remember my wife saying that the towers had collapsed. I told her that was ridiculous (remembering the 1993 bombing attempt), and when I went back into the livingroom and heard them say it for myself I was about to launch into a lecture about the bad quality of Polish news reportingh when they showed the pictures of them collapsing. I just stood there stunned.
About two weeks before coming to Poland my company had sent me on a sales call to a client on the 51st floor of the World Trade Center. I'm a researcher and usually don't accompany the sales folks on their calls - they like to keep us locked up away from view - but there I was in the last week of August on my first ever time up in the towers. I had travelled through the PATH station below many times but had never been up in the towers themselves before - nor will I ever again be. I still have my security pass. For a couple months I kept thinking about all the people I'd met, I walked in my dreams through their office, and wondered how many were still alive. They were all young people just starting their careers. I didn't have any special relationship with them, and if this hadn't happened I'm sure I wouldn't remember any of them by now - but it did happen and I felt after 9/11 almost as if I had been walking through a mausoleum that day. Months later I learned by chance through an article in an industry report that everyone in that particular company had been able to escape - they were only on the 51st floor after all - and what a relief that was for me for some weird reason. The human mind is a strange thing.
The Polish TV stations kept a 24-hour news vigil for 3 straight days before returning to regular programming. The American Embassy in Warsaw had a huge pile of flowers and candles left on its front sidewalk. In the communist years many Polish engineers had to work in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and other Third World Soviet-allied states and I was surprised how many expressed very strong opinions against Arabs and Moslems. It made me realize how deep the cultural differences are between the West and the Middle East; there is a chasm between us that negates the ability to find common cultural ground on which we can meet. As someone steeped in history I know there is much common cultural history between the two cultures, but this is often ignored by extremists on both sides with agendas.
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