World War - how to avoid?

[Chris Woods]

In my last 2 games of Civ V (post patch - king level) I've had a situation about half way through the game where the entire world turns on me and declares war. It doesn't seem to matter what I do at this point, I am going to have to finish out the game in a constant state of war with every other civ in the universe.

In the most recent of these, I never directly declared war on any civs. I did go to war as a part of a "declared friend" asking for help, and I did have war declared on me. In both cases when the enemy civ sued for peace I accepted as I was trying to have a nice, peaceful victory as I played with the new buildings anyhow.

Is there something I should be doing different to avoid ending up as Sauron vs. Middle Earth? It's really annoying.

Chris Woods

 

[CaptainKapow]

Check and see why people hate you.

The most common thing I've seen that will cause a gangbang is if you are expanding much faster than everyone else. "They feel we are building cities too fast."

All of the other civs see that you are beginning to run away with the game and they all band together to try to kill you ASAP.

One way to avoid it is to simply build an adequate defensive military to thwart their attempt. The other, if you really want to be peaceful is to slow your # of cities down and focus more on pop growth early on.

A compromise is to try to settle a few blocking cities down first and then slowly gobble up the land between as you go. This will let you get the land you want without having to rush it right away. Just make sure you don't open borders to anyone you are blocking.

That's one possibility anyways, as I said, check out the reasons leaders list in red for not liking you.

 

[nokmirt]

In my last 2 games of Civ V (post patch - king level) I've had a situation about half way through the game where the entire world turns on me and declares war. It doesn't seem to matter what I do at this point, I am going to have to finish out the game in a constant state of war with every other civ in the universe.

In the most recent of these, I never directly declared war on any civs. I did go to war as a part of a "declared friend" asking for help, and I did have war declared on me. In both cases when the enemy civ sued for peace I accepted as I was trying to have a nice, peaceful victory as I played with the new buildings anyhow.

Is there something I should be doing different to avoid ending up as Sauron vs. Middle Earth? It's really annoying.

Chris Woods

UMMM! The same thing just happened to me. It is the craziest war I have seen in this game to date. Every civ and cs, except my trusted ally Lhasa is against me. America and Lhasa against the world. I find it funny because my dog is a Lhasa Apso.

Anyway, I have been defending myself and the enemy has been given a pretty good drubbing although I am slightly behind in tech. The main problem is money so I cannot upgrade more units. Still the situation is grim and I was curious does the AI ever give in or am I going to be an international outlaw for the rest of the game?

BTW I am playing small pangea, 6 civs, king level.

 

[Seikninkuru]

They seem to get that way when resources are gobbled up. No matter how far away they are they will covet your land. I am not the best but generally in situations like this I turtle up and let them expend their army in bottlenecks I create.

Eventually they deplete their army and I can puppet/raze/liberate. They tend to squabble over the scraps after that.

 

[Daedal]

I thought I'd heard that the gangbang mentality of the AI was going to be toned down in this patch, but it seems as strong as ever. If you expand too quickly you get the multi-denounce/DoW. If you're anywhere near a domination victory, same thing. If you are going for a domination victory, you just have to prepare for this. If you aren't, don't settle too many cities or grab too much land.

 

[vanjito]

You have one 'free' DoW (no matter how) and on second one, almost every CIV is going to Denounce you and gang up on you.
Be sure you are strong enough to conquer all before 2. DoW. (You can be DoW'ed any number of times, it doesn't matter)

Sell your resources for money so they don't covet them

 

[free_cat]

I think it is not possible to avoid. Best thing you can do is to make sure other people is at war among them most time possible by bribing top/warmongering leaders into war against other weaker leaders and if you can against them.

 

[OneOfOldiest]

In my last 2 games of Civ V (post patch - king level) I've had a situation about half way through the game where the entire world turns on me and declares war. It doesn't seem to matter what I do at this point, I am going to have to finish out the game in a constant state of war with every other civ in the universe.

In the most recent of these, I never directly declared war on any civs. I did go to war as a part of a "declared friend" asking for help, and I did have war declared on me. In both cases when the enemy civ sued for peace I accepted as I was trying to have a nice, peaceful victory as I played with the new buildings anyhow.

Is there something I should be doing different to avoid ending up as Sauron vs. Middle Earth? It's really annoying.

Chris Woods

Strong military is need to prevent wars and strong economy is need to be in top of science race.

My first game after patch was Napoleon, immortal, continets, all standard setups.
I have blocked Spain with my second city and as result Spain DoW me around turn 50.

Second game was restart of first game.
I have built second city on same spot as in first game and I have 3 swordsmans at that time.
Spain never attacks me.

I have aborted both games becouse Iroquois have more than 12 cities and lead in science, I have reached artillery at the time when they have reached modern era.

Third game was Napoleon, emperor, continets, all standard setups.
I have played for domination victory. I have RAs (up to 6 at late game) and trade agreements trough all game.
Neither AI ever DoW me, neither AI ever call me 'warmonger', only AI who ever hates me was Suleiman at start of game when I have blocked him with my second city.
That game can be lead for pacific game with rules as follows:
-decent number of military units
-cities with high population for economy efficiency (as many RA as possible, high own science rates)
-never DoW with CS (worker stealing or similar acts)
-never sign any arrangements with AI except RAs and trading agreements
-never raze any civilization.

 

[ShowOfForce]

Last night on a continent game I simply destroyed the two civs I shared with before we were contacted by people across the seas. Then they never seemed to be mad at me since they never met the other 2 civs. Later as my war machine was crushing them from strongest to weakest they all went chain dow on me, but I expected that

 

[OneOfOldiest]

Last night on a continent game I simply destroyed the two civs I shared with before we were contacted by people across the seas. Then they never seemed to be mad at me since they never met the other 2 civs. Later as my war machine was crushing them from strongest to weakest they all went chain dow on me, but I expected that

I am not destroying any civs, I allways leave 2-3 cities to defeated for later RAs and that works well. Defeated but not rased civs are poor and other AIs rarely makes any agreements with them, that makes defeated civs perfect RA partners for human player (possibility to have 2-3 RAs more then any AI at any time).

 

[nokmirt]

In the future they will be working with diplomacy and combat AI in an upcoming patch.

The AI seems to be aggressive but strategically they are horrible. They come with destroyers and subs against a city. They should try landing troops and have not done that at this point. I was sinking destroyers and subs with cannons and my city defenses, just before I entered the industrial era.

The Babylonians retook their city captured in an early war by Lhasa. Lhasa has been fighting tenaciously trying to protect their capital. Babylon has sent a lot of units and still cannot crack Lhasas defense. Lhasa protects my northern border. I have my crappy wooden ships suporting them (I cannot afford to upgrade them to destroyers). The whole point is if the AI was determined with it's higher tech advantage, they could conquer me easily. Instead my basically Napoleonic forces are holding their own. My army/navy has 4 rifleman/ 4 cannons/ 2 artillery/ 1 great general/ 1 frigate/ 1 caravel. I have 2 gold and my economy creates 12 gpt, all of my cities are focused on gold.

India is to the north west. They invaded me with one infantry division at a time, no artillery support or support of any kind. The first division I blasted it to half strength and it retreated. The second, a turn later, I destroyed. India has not been back since.

Siam tried to send two unescorted transports, evidentally to land around my northern coastal city of New York. My venerable wooden navy sank them like toys, a Siamese tank and a cavalry.

To the south is my traitorous friend Edinburgh, who was my ally in the first war against Babylon. They have just been firing artillery shells at me. If they invade I have a bottleneck for them. Mountains to a forest hex,down to the coast and sea, just like Thermopylae, except there will be know goatpath for them to find.

Like I said the situation is grim, but I am going to finish and fight to the death if needs be. Besides it is useful experience.

I am not destroying any civs, I allways leave 2-3 cities to defeated for later RAs and that works well. Defeated but not rased civs are poor and other AIs rarely makes any agreements with them, that makes defeated civs perfect RA partners for human player (possibility to have 2-3 RAs more then any AI at any time).

I will keep this in mind for future games. I have a lot to learn.

 

[thallin]

World Wars are the only way to test if you truly deserve victory. If by the games end you haven't violently crushed all opposition with mass genocide and big explosions you don't deserve to win.

 

[Civsassin]

Strong military is need to prevent wars and strong economy is need to be in top of science race.

A strong economy provides gold. A large population and science building multipliers are required to lead the science race. At the highest levels, science must be your top focus, or you will quickly be overwhelmed by superior forces.

 

[nokmirt]

World Wars are the only way to test if you truly deserve victory. If by the games end you haven't violently crushed all opposition with mass genocide and big explosions you don't deserve to win.

I like how you think soldier!

 

[Fluxx]

A strong economy provides gold. A large population and science building multipliers are required to lead the science race. At the highest levels, science must be your top focus, or you will quickly be overwhelmed by superior forces.

Economy does not imply gold per se in Civ5. Also Gold often translates into better research because of Happyness/maritine states/building buying.

On topic however, make sure you got some military units 3-5 at all times during the game. Even if you do not intend to wage an AI war, you can use it to pick off a city state. Having 5 military units that are top of the line often will discourage most AI's to DOW you unless they got outside motivation.
Also make sure you have treaties running with a portion of the AI, and if you see a possibility let other AI's scrim with eachother through bribing them into war.
Often when an AI asks you to DOW another civ, you can just refuse the request and then bribe them to go into the war alone for a small fee (150-300) gold, which equals about a luxury or an open borders.

The changes that have been made into denouncements often do not lead into mass wars anymore.

As a final comment, some AI's really behave as players. Meaning that you can bully them around. I have had some games where I had several wars with an AI, and everytime I came out a bit victorious. This meant that the AI kept friendly with me "because he desired friendly relationships". This often means that you are simply stronger then that AI, and he does not want to risk waging war with you because he knows he will end up on the losing side.

 

[maltz]

You have one 'free' DoW (no matter how) and on second one, almost every CIV is going to Denounce you and gang up on you.
Be sure you are strong enough to conquer all before 2. DoW. (You can be DoW'ed any number of times, it doesn't matter)

Peace loving Civs (such as Siam) hate the player for even declaring the first war.
Warmongering Civs (such as Aztec) can tolerate 3 war declarations.

But in general, I find 2 DoWs to be the maximum for selling resources at full price.
3 DoWs and most Civs start to worry.
4 will be a diaster.

 

[JaGarLo]

Maybe the game is programed for this. When you're about to win, they give you a ''little endgame surprise''.

In my case, I've never had to deal with a war against four or plus civs. Only one, two sometimes, and some CS's. Perhaps this doesn't happen to me because I'm playing on Prince.

I agree with the other guys who posted earlier: the stronger your army, the less DoW you'll get.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

Over expansion across a wide area, declaring war on city states, declaring war on different civs...all of these will lead to the world hating you. Also, remember that it only takes one civ to bribe the rest of the world into declaring war on you.

 

[nokmirt]

Maybe the game is programed for this. When you're about to win, they give you a ''little endgame surprise''.

In my case, I've never had to deal with a war against four or plus civs. Only one, two sometimes, and some CS's. Perhaps this doesn't happen to me because I'm playing on Prince.

I agree with the other guys who posted earlier: the stronger your army, the less DoW you'll get.

Exactly what happened to me. I ended a war and started putting everything into science and building production to keep up with the AI civs. I let my military wane and they all DoWed me. Now my small army is holding it's own mostly because of the shortcomings of the AI. A stupid monkey could run an invasion better than this AI can. A smart chimp could have beaten my wooden navy and Napoleonic army with ease. They have infantry, tanks, and destroyers there is no reason for me to have survived as long as I have.

 

[Pinstar]

You have one 'free' DoW (no matter how) and on second one, almost every CIV is going to Denounce you and gang up on you.
Be sure you are strong enough to conquer all before 2. DoW. (You can be DoW'ed any number of times, it doesn't matter)

Sell your resources for money so they don't covet them

On that note, you get one "free" conquest of a city-state without the other civs or city-states getting overly upset with you (unless the city state you just busted was a close ally to an AI)

I don't know if grabbing a city-state will use up your one free DoW