World Wide Wonder

[cripp7]

Hmm as Antium could whip the settler next turn this seems to be wiser, 'cause we'd need that settler fast!

I agree with that, having a good city that can take away the settler/worker duty from Rome is always good, and let Rome keep going with the Mids, as this is being a WWE, I would really like to keep the Mids from the AI!

Looking at the save now, for the sugar site, how about settling on the hill 1W of the sugar? I know it takes production, but all those river plains won't be short of production, and it won't cross-over with the FP site. As regards denying Churchill land, I suspect we'll be denying him life soon enough:
"we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fig-uurgh" style of thing.

On tech what's our medium term plan. I know we're going for Literature, but will we put IW in the queue, in order to unleash the might of Rome?

I can't look at the say that the moment, so I can't say about the settling spot. But yes we do need to put in IW pretty soon.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Granaries should be building No 1, we need to Grow the population, to hold a higher commerce base, production base, and get those settlers and workers out quicker.

2 should go over to Granary. Antium should be allowed to grow for 1 turn. Its carry over figure will be 4/39 (35) till next growth point at +7 or 5 turns. But should return to whip out settler for the Sugar spot.

Rome, should grow to its Max population, then spit out wonders. It can grow in 8 turns, the same for unhappy, and produce a forge in 7 turns. No whipping needed, then grow while building the Pyramids and a Granary.

Cumae, will start to Stagnate unless a lighthouse is built, so a gold mine should be next (already building ), as well as a Mine on the Silver to increase Romes happy cap by +4.

Cumae, should then go onto non stop settler /worker production. It'll never have enough food to justify a Library or running the specialists. It can stagnate at 4 or higher population with a lighthouse, and just spit out workers/settlers.

Antium, with a +7 food surplus, can run 2 or 3 specialists, with a library, and still grow, spitting out additional troops, or workers.

Rome is now freed up from workers/settlers to build the wonders, grow it population to run additional specialists in addition to it building duties.

The next site to settle is definitely upon the Sugar, then scout further to the east coast, to trap additional settling sites, or to box in Hammurabi. 1W give up the Pigs, Max food for Max core city Growth.

The 4 flood plains site, is a potential great person farm, with Biology farms its +15 in food allowing the running of 7 Scientists with 1 food for growth.

objectives to achieve;

1) set up 2 cities to spit out workers/settlers/troops.
2) Rome to begin its campaign of wonder building.
3) Begin to block off land for ourselves NOW!!!!.
4) Scout out Churchhill for a potential war of aggression with Praetorians.
5) Building order required; Granary (growth), Forges (25% production, potential +4 )

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

I nearly agree to all of your points. but some things I didn't get

2 should go over to Granary. Antium should be allowed to grow for 1 turn. Its carry over figure will be 4/39 (35) till next growth point at +7 or 5 turns. But should return to whip out settler for the Sugar spot.

Do you vote for growth? In case you do I don't understand why.. As far as I can see in case we only need one turn to grow to size 3 we'll be at size 2 with nearly no food after the whip. In case we immediately whip we'll be at size two the turn after. So in the end we may loose a little food but would win a turn towards the settler!

Rome, should grow to its Max population, then spit out wonders. It can grow in 8 turns, the same for unhappy, and produce a forge in 7 turns. No whipping needed, then grow while building the Pyramids and a Granary.

I don't agree to that. Main reason to whip is to max the hammer output of the forest to get into the mids! And as long as the lack of production in Rome matters we don't need to grow that fast I think. So rather slow down growth after reaching the low happy cap in favour of production than keep a high cap while working unimproved titles.
About settling I need to take a look at the save once again..

 

[ifinnem]

The 4 flood plains site, is a potential great person farm, with Biology farms its +15 in food allowing the running of 7 Scientists with 1 food for growth.

No other city will be able to compete with Rome ito of GPP with all the wonders and settled GPs there. A good cottage site to support the empire once it gets bigger is prob best use for FPs...

 

[cripp7]

Granaries should be building No 1, we need to Grow the population, to hold a higher commerce base, production base, and get those settlers and workers out quicker.

2 should go over to Granary. Antium should be allowed to grow for 1 turn. Its carry over figure will be 4/39 (35) till next growth point at +7 or 5 turns. But should return to whip out settler for the Sugar spot.

I agree with the granaries, Antium can do a turn into granary to grow to size 3 then back to the settler to whip with overflow into granary.

Rome, should grow to its Max population, then spit out wonders. It can grow in 8 turns, the same for unhappy, and produce a forge in 7 turns. No whipping needed, then grow while building the Pyramids and a Granary.

[QUOTEThy_Spellcraft;9423709]I don't agree to that. Main reason to whip is to max the hammer output of the forest to get into the mids! And as long as the lack of production in Rome matters we don't need to grow that fast I think. So rather slow down growth after reaching the low happy cap in favour of production than keep a high cap while working unimproved titles.[/QUOTE]

That's what I was thinking too, I totally understand letting Rome grow out the whip . With the forge whip we'll have 23 while working 2 fish for 4 turns then clams, but will we still get the Mids with all that slow growth from the anger?

Cumae, will start to Stagnate unless a lighthouse is built, so a gold mine should be next (already building ), as well as a Mine on the Silver to increase Romes happy cap by +4.

Cumae, should then go onto non stop settler /worker production. It'll never have enough food to justify a Library or running the specialists. It can stagnate at 4 or higher population with a lighthouse, and just spit out workers/settlers.

I'm in agreement with that, Cumae isn't a great city just to grab resources

Antium, with a +7 food surplus, can run 2 or 3 specialists, with a library, and still grow, spitting out additional troops, or workers.

Rome is now freed up from workers/settlers to build the wonders, grow it population to run additional specialists in addition to it building duties.

That's what we needed to do as our short term goal, that's starting to take shape nicely.

The next site to settle is definitely upon the Sugar, then scout further to the east coast, to trap additional settling sites, or to box in Hammurabi. 1W give up the Pigs, Max food for Max core city Growth.

The 4 flood plains site, is a potential great person farm, with Biology farms its +15 in food allowing the running of 7 Scientists with 1 food for growth.

objectives to achieve;

1) set up 2 cities to spit out workers/settlers/troops.
2) Rome to begin its campaign of wonder building.
3) Begin to block off land for ourselves NOW!!!!.
4) Scout out Churchhill for a potential war of aggression with Praetorians.
5) Building order required; Granary (growth), Forges (25% production, potential +4 )

Yup, said enough there.

I nearly agree to all of your points. but some things I didn't get

Do you vote for growth? In case you do I don't understand why.. As far as I can see in case we only need one turn to grow to size 3 we'll be at size 2 with nearly no food after the whip. In case we immediately whip we'll be at size two the turn after. So in the end we may loose a little food but would win a turn towards the settler!

Either way we're at size 2, let's whip now to grab the sugar while regrowing into a granary.

 

[Stochastic]

Cripp? Is there a plan for the next set?

 

[cripp7]

yes, sorry haven't been on the pc a lot. what's your input Stoch?

Rome: whip forge into Mids, let it grow back while building granary
Antium: put a turn into granary grow to size 3 start settler, whip once I can into granary
Cumae: keep growing, work gold in 2 turns

settle sugar start monument

Cumae worker finish mine, start roading
Antium worker finish mine start farming floodplains

 

[Stochastic]

yes, sorry haven't been on the pc a lot. what's your input Stoch?

Rome: whip forge into Mids, let it grow back while building granary
Antium: put a turn into granary grow to size 3 start settler, whip once I can into granary
Cumae: keep growing, work gold in 2 turns

settle sugar start monument

Cumae worker finish mine, start roading
Antium worker finish mine start farming floodplains

No worries, it happens, just so long as we know!

Plan looks good for the most part, but I think we have Stone Henge so the new city can start right away on a granary If you are worried about getting the Sugar site, it might be best to whip the settler too.

For the road, I think it makes most sense to go 1N onto the hill rather than 1W to the forest because that will bring Cumae into our network and then see if you can dodge the warrior that still hasn't gone to bug Churchill.

 

[cripp7]

Done 20 turns, I kinda whipped Rome too hard but got the Mids(didn't revolt to Rep), Rome needs to works all seafood to grow. Granaries in all cities except Sugar site (building)

Traded Church Alpha+Sailing>MC, Izzy AH>Sailing+Writing
Found Church's capitol real close, he has axes. Hammy has IW but won't trade yet.
Found Cathy up North of Church, he has iron by the horse!

 

[ifinnem]

Will take a look soon.
Can only play on Monday though as my laptop with right CIV + mods is in another city till then!
Swap me with next player if necessary

 

[Brian Shanahan]

I think without a war against Churchill, or a big REX to the East/North-East, we're going to be a bit stuck for land and safety.
Problem with Churchill is he's Hindu as with Hammy and Catherine. So it could turn nasty there.
Problem with REXing is that we've no intel on what's out there, and we've no city capable (atm) of getting the settlers out quickly.
We can also build the Colossus in Rome now. can we cherry-pick on the wonders or do we have to attempt every one we can?
Finally should we be going binary on the science? At least until the libraries are up.

On a personal note I'm out of service until the 18th of this month. I've probably already said it here, but better safe than sorry.

 

[cripp7]

I think without a war against Churchill, or a big REX to the East/North-East, we're going to be a bit stuck for land and safety.
Problem with Churchill is he's Hindu as with Hammy and Catherine. So it could turn nasty there.
Problem with REXing is that we've no intel on what's out there, and we've no city capable (atm) of getting the settlers out quickly.
We can also build the Colossus in Rome now. can we cherry-pick on the wonders or do we have to attempt every one we can?
Finally should we be going binary on the science? At least until the libraries are up.

Yes lots of things to consider, without our preats REXing E/NE is our only option. We have a hindu love fest going so hopefully hindu will spread to us. We need to get our road network hooked up to Church. I know he has iron between the horse/rice on that hill. Letting Antium grow back working 3 fp farms will get our settler pump as will Cumae once a lighthouse is in (but that will take a while so workers only for now)

I'd go ahead and get Colosuss, we can cherry-pick them. If we can build, build it. Keep them out of the hands of the AI. Yes binary research, I did that with Math.

On a personal note I'm out of service until the 18th of this month. I've probably already said it here, but better safe than sorry.

We'll be glad to see your return. Will be a lot to catch up on by then!

 

[Brian Shanahan]

We'll be glad to see your return. Will be a lot to catch up on by then!

I'll probably be around, not out of internet just away from Civ. Going up home for a wedding and my brother coming home too. I may even be back before then (though I doubt it, my mam sounded like she's got lots of jobs lined up for me last time we were talking).

 

[Stochastic]

Done 20 turns, I kinda whipped Rome too hard but got the Mids(didn't revolt to Rep), Rome needs to works all seafood to grow. Granaries in all cities except Sugar site (building)

Traded Church Alpha+Sailing>MC, Izzy AH>Sailing+Writing
Found Church's capitol real close, he has axes. Hammy has IW but won't trade yet.
Found Cathy up North of Church, he has iron by the horse!

Nice that we have the pyramids! How do you know that Churchill has iron?

I have a few comments about city specialisation:
I see Antium as a unit producing pump, so I don't think a library is particularly important. Maybe it should build a warrior for scouting and then switch to a forge?

I think Rome has better choices than a lighthouse. A WB would give way more food/hammer and it also needs a library up asap. As Brian said we should be doing binary research until that is finished. So maybe swap to a WB followed by library?

Cumae could use a library as a low end commerce city (and a bit better after it gets a lighthouse)

Here are my thoughts about workers:
Since we've got sailing we don't need a road between Cumae and Rome. I would wait on that until we start massing units to attack Churchill so that the worker can help improve land. Maybe that worker and the worker currently farming a plains can chop the forest 2E of Cumae to get the settler out faster.

We should also get two workers out to Neapolis asap. Maybe the one currently making a mine by Antium can leave to pasture the pigs now and the worker currently building a road can head north after that is done.

As for techs, I think we should go binary research (sit at 0% until we have a library in Rome) and then go for Aesthetics. IW should be easy to get from a trade very soon.

Scouting should be done in the North West by a warrior from Antium and I think our other warrior in the East should finish mapping Churchill's land before going further north.

Regarding our land issues, I think we are ok, we have room for at least two more nice cities, the floodplains should be next from the settler in Cumae, then we've got the silver sheep site, and there is probably room for another one West of Neapolis.

If we do have iron I would support a war on Churchill, but if we don't it isn't the end of the world as we are in a good spot.

I don't think we need to go for the Colossus immediately, we really need to build the library and WB in Rome and by the time we've done that we should be ready to build an aqueduct for the Hanging Gardens. Maybe after that we will be able to squeeze it in before the National Epic, Parthenon and Great Library, but I think that those should all take priority.

 

[cripp7]

Nice that we have the pyramids! How do you know that Churchill has iron?

From him building a mine where no city is, he improved the horse/rice.

I have a few comments about city specialisation:
I see Antium as a unit producing pump, so I don't think a library is particularly important. Maybe it should build a warrior for scouting and then switch to a forge?

library was just a placeholder, there's 21 overflow atm which could do a warrior in 1t. should that go into the forge for a turn then switch to a warrior? although it get a warrior out quick.

I think Rome has better choices than a lighthouse. A WB would give way more food/hammer and it also needs a library up asap. As Brian said we should be doing binary research until that is finished. So maybe swap to a WB followed by library?

again just a placeholder, queue up a library while growing the city and once the goes away, whip a wb into a library. Yes getting the library in Rome is a priority

Cumae could use a library as a low end commerce city (and a bit better after it gets a lighthouse)

no argument there

Here are my thoughts about workers:
Since we've got sailing we don't need a road between Cumae and Rome. I would wait on that until we start massing units to attack Churchill so that the worker can help improve land. Maybe that worker and the worker currently farming a plains can chop the forest 2E of Cumae to get the settler out faster.

We should also get two workers out to Neapolis asap. Maybe the one currently making a mine by Antium can leave to pasture the pigs now and the worker currently building a road can head north after that is done.

The road between Cumae/Rome was actually going to the silver, probably should've improved the silver first then road back towards Rome. Good idea on Neapolis workers, the worker roading to the N of Antium was hooking up the river so Neap would be connected.

As for techs, I think we should go binary research (sit at 0% until we have a library in Rome) and then go for Aesthetics. IW should be easy to get from a trade very soon.

Scouting should be done in the North West by a warrior from Antium and I think our other warrior in the East should finish mapping Churchill's land before going further north.

see what he has to his E-NE

Regarding our land issues, I think we are ok, we have room for at least two more nice cities, the floodplains should be next from the settler in Cumae, then we've got the silver sheep site, and there is probably room for another one West of Neapolis.

If we do have iron I would support a war on Churchill, but if we don't it isn't the end of the world as we are in a good spot.

with too, hopefully another source of iron will be close by.

I don't think we need to go for the Colossus immediately, we really need to build the library and WB in Rome and by the time we've done that we should be ready to build an aqueduct for the Hanging Gardens. Maybe after that we will be able to squeeze it in before the National Epic, Parthenon and Great Library, but I think that those should all take priority.

Should get HG no problem, but once our copper is online let's see how many turns Colossus will complete. I think the extra working all our seafood would really help our . NE, Parth, TGL will be great it looks like we're on the right track!

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Oh yeah, when I said East/North East in the post above, I meant West. D'oh on my part, not being able to distinguish East from West (and I don't have the excuse of deunkenness even).

The plan looks sound, and I was only outlining the options we have for serious growth, as our glorius leader wants diplo win. We're not beat by a long ways if we miss out on war or REX, but why make things harder than they have to be if we can help it?

 

[ifinnem]

Yeah am not too concerned if as long as we have 6 cities.
Is there any reason to delay switching to Rep? I don't think so since we are not on a tight timeline to build anything and we get the 3 bonus on the settled spezie

Otherwise pretty much agree with Stochastic but will have a look at city specialization a bit myself

 

[Stochastic]

library was just a placeholder, there's 21 overflow atm which could do a warrior in 1t. should that go into the forge for a turn then switch to a warrior? although it get a warrior out quick.

Good point, it probably is better to put the overflow into a forge so that we get the Industrious bonus and then build a warrior next turn. I don't think the scout is quite that crucial.

Yeah am not too concerned if as long as we have 6 cities.
Is there any reason to delay switching to Rep? I don't think so since we are not on a tight timeline to build anything and we get the 3 bonus on the settled spezie

Otherwise pretty much agree with Stochastic but will have a look at city specialization a bit myself

Yeah, we may as well swap into Rep now. Then while we are in revolution our workers can get some more work done!

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

I do agree to nearly everything said above but concerning the military pump I'm sure Neapolis would be the better decision. With two grasshill mines, the mine on the copper and an additional plain hill it will get 15:hmmers: at size 5 (working the pigs) and would still be growing. So for early military production take that city!
And about settling there's another really good coastal site to the east of Cumae grabbing clams sheep and deer! So maybe we should think about that as well!
And speaking of Cumae: We'll need culture there badly as it's fighting against London's culture for the suggar!

 

[Stochastic]

From him building a mine where no city is, he improved the horse/rice.

When I went back into the save to have a look I noticed that Churchill does not know Iron Working yet, so I think there is probably a city that we haven't notice yet.

I do agree to nearly everything said above but concerning the military pump I'm sure Neapolis would be the better decision. With two grasshill mines, the mine on the copper and an additional plain hill it will get 15:hmmers: at size 5 (working the pigs) and would still be growing. So for early military production take that city!
And about settling there's another really good coastal site to the east of Cumae grabbing clams sheep and deer! So maybe we should think about that as well!
And speaking of Cumae: We'll need culture there badly as it's fighting against London's culture for the suggar!

Good point about Neapolis being a better production site, though Antium isn't too bad either with 11 at size 4 after which it starts to have food problems to get more production.

I didn't even notice that site in the East, I wouldn't call it really good, but it will certainly be a decent hybrid once we've consolidated our interior and maybe taken out Churchill (otherwise I'm concerned that our front would get quite wide and hard to defend)