Worst UU

[obsolete]

The celts already win enough of the WORST UB polls, we don`t need to mention their crappy UU also, which is just throwing more salt into the wounds.

 

[theskibum]

The celts already win enough of the WORST UB polls, we don`t need to mention their crappy UU also, which is just throwing more salt into the wounds.

Did you just recently get stomped by Boudica?

 

[Ataxerxes]

Well, he isn't great and his U.B. "synergy" is no particular treat, but... it is pretty nice that he can be built with copper.

Granted it is only reduced resource dependence instead of resource free but it's on a typically useful unit and it does not come with a reduced strength penalty. It's not as good as a jaguar but I would still rather have Gallic Warriors than standard swords.

I agree regarding Gallic Warrior. It's just I'm surprised that no one voted for him, given votes for half the units in the game, several of whom aren't awful. At least there's no downside to him, as there is for some UU's. Is it just my impression, or is Copper really rarer than Iron in the game?

I would actually rank him behind the two Knight replacements, however.

 

[obsolete]

It's just I'm surprised that no one voted for him

That wasn't my big surprise...

My big surprise was how more than one person voted the Jag, and were serious.

 

[Bei1052]

I don't get any kicks from the Conquistador either because the AI undervalues pikes as defense anyhow.

The above post must be a joke. The conquistador is among the best horse UU's in the game.

 

[Fleme]

Just saying as I see it. I hardly ever play for a cuirassier war and citadel-promoted treb->cannon are enough reason to play a slow army as Spain rather a fast one. Offensively the conquistador does not outperform it's stock counterpart and therefore isn't a "good" UU.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Spain was better in warlords where the conquistador was a knight replacement.

 

[Iranon]

I'm surprised at the lack of love for Conquistadors - few units allow the player to take advantage of the AI's tactical weakness to the same extent.
With a unit that defends well, is fast enough to reinforce threatened cities and capable of flanking siege, cracking even large stacks isn't a problem. Their greatly reduced vulnerability compared to normal cuirassiers is also going to be a major asset in the inevitable counterattack.

 

[Farm Boy]

I guess, my issue is unless you are specifically targeting a pillaging war, why are you fighting at tech parity along the conquistador tech line? I know there are reasons, but I am not coming up with them. If I have Spain, I know for sure that I am going to have a heavy inclination to be racing for steel at this point, not military tradition. I probably already have citadels up and I want god-cannons instead of mega-trebs. Drill 3 cannons aren't wonderful defenders, but they aren't terribad either.

If I have the time to pick up steel for cannons, then circle back around and pick up conquistadors to pair them in my war effort and the AI isn't either to, or knocking on the door of rifling, I would consider myself fighting at significant tech advantage rather than at parity.

Not disagreeing, just wanting to see the logic behind this as I am not getting it. Maybe a techpath for defensive war prep, heavy cottaging, or a lot of accumulated EP from the castles?

 

[reddishrecue]

I'll tell you which one is not the worst UU, byzantine cataphract. We could compare this unit with the conquistador since they are both horseback units.

 

[theskibum]

I'll tell you which one is not the worst UU, byzantine cataphract. We could compare this unit with the conquistador since they are both horseback units.

Cataphract is a top contender for best UU, certainly in the top 7

 

[Farm Boy]

That makes sense. I get the feeling you are wrapping up your game at this point while I am typically just starting to springboard. I generally want/need the towns and villages intact when those new cities of mine pop their borders.

 

[Farm Boy]

Hrmph. That makes enough sense I will try it next time I roll Spain, but I am still not convinced they are not a trap.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Ballista Elephant. Haven't we had this thread dozens of times already?

 

[6K Man]

Ballista Elephant. Haven't we had this thread dozens of times already?

We have. I think the whole "worst UU" debate can be broken down as follows:

1. UUs that don't add much to the base unit (Bowman, Dog Soldier)
2. UUs that come too late (Panzer, Seal)
3. UUs that are often unavailable (Ballista Elephant is the only one that comes to mind)
4. UUs with a too-short window of use (Musketeer)

The thing with the Bowman is... it is nearly impossible to leverage. I can see situations where you could rush an opponent with Dogs... but Bowmen don't beat anything, except Warriors. +50% vs. Melee doesn't quite let them face Axes on even footing. And 99% of the time, the AI will be defending with Archers, which murder Bowmen. Thus, useless.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Actually, there's a 5th and 6th category.
5: UUs that are extremely situational (Jaguar)
6: UUs that are weaker than the base unit, but that's probably under #1.

 

[Skwink]

You've got to be kidding. Even on Marathon they give a tangible bonus, which is more than you can say for some of the weaker UU's. On Normal, they're top 5 and probably the top UU on Quick (not that many people play quick). And their usefulness is regardless of difficulty.

Surely you jest?

Even playing at marathon speed, the Fast Worker is a top 50% UU. At any faster speed, it's a top 5 UU.

Regular workers are fine for me. Like I said, lets see one defend India from my Praetorians. It's why India always falls first when they are in my games.

 

[6K Man]

Actually, there's a 5th and 6th category.
5: UUs that are extremely situational (Jaguar)
6: UUs that are weaker than the base unit, but that's probably under #1.

I'd put both of those under #1, although you could, I suppose, describe #5 and #1 in the same way.

I mean, the Bowman is situational in the sense that if you're playing under Monarch, and get early Archery (not that hard), you could do a Bowman rush. Similarly, Jaguars are situational in that they work well in Forest/Jungle against opponents without metal.

The Jaguar doesn't add much to the base unit; -1 STR is NOT offset by marginally lower hammer cost and the free Woodsman promo.

 

[vicawoo]

In theory bowmen should do reasonably well vs axemen when defending from a city/hill/forest, whereas it got a little dicey with normal archers.

 

[obsolete]

If ballista elephant were resourceless, then you would have something worth going for...