Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Yep, exactly. Or become 'God' (singular).
Would The World Be Better Off Without Religion?
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Kozmos
Jew Detective
Winner Evil Cool quote +1
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Youre still alive, right? Maybe some of the credit for that should go to the idea "Thou shall not kill". It was a commandment before it was a law.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
No, the world would not be better off without religion.
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
I credit local law enforcement, and my own resiliency. Not the fanatic psychos calling for unbbelievers like me to be killed with my continued life.
Also altruism is not a religous concept, but one caused by evolution
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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No doubt. But isnt it true that in all places and times, the idea originated within a religious context? We've had religion alot longer than civil law. Our laws are based on the moral codes we get from our religions.
edit:
Where do laws come from?
There are plenty of fanatic psychos who have nothing to do with religion, or spirituality. Dont throw out the bathwater with the baby
I see no reason why evolution couldnt be seen as a religious concept.
By "religion", are we talking about simply the organized view of spirituality, or politicization of religions, mostly including the idea of political religions, such as personality cults? If we removed spirituality, we'd still have a huge problem with political religions - personality cults are a quintessential example of an ideology made dogma, of course, but there's still other examples including nationalism, which certinatly wouldn't even remotely go away if religion went. Plenty of ideologies have been fought over in similar ways as religion.
Besides, a lot of wars that had religious justifications behind it often included significant secular justifications as well - it doesn't make the wars right, of course, but religion was often more used as an outward excuse rather than a real cause. I'd say "except for heresy wars", but even that had the issue of being just like political dissent when it comes to destabilizing factors in a country.
I'd absolutely love to see the idea of a static religion go, as it adds a ton of unnessecary social inertia, and there are plenty of religions today which have some significant problems, but religion as a whole? Nah.
Besides, a lot of wars that had religious justifications behind it often included significant secular justifications as well - it doesn't make the wars right, of course, but religion was often more used as an outward excuse rather than a real cause. I'd say "except for heresy wars", but even that had the issue of being just like political dissent when it comes to destabilizing factors in a country.
I'd absolutely love to see the idea of a static religion go, as it adds a ton of unnessecary social inertia, and there are plenty of religions today which have some significant problems, but religion as a whole? Nah.
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
Laws generally come from moral codes or a willingness to protect life and wealth. Is there any proof that our original moral codes were based on Religion rather than visa versa?
Laws have existed ever since civilization was born. At the same time, so did organized religion, especially the idea of dogma and thus religious laws, so I doubt you can make a connection.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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Going back to the earliest times, human laws and political institutions derived their legitimacy from religion. Sometimes its still true even today. I cant imagine the earliest humans developing legal systems before religious moral codes.
edit: but really, this is a modern distinction only. To the ancients, there was no difference between religious commandment and law.
The fact that you could not manage it does not mean that it could have not developed.
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
I'm not sure that this is the case. I'm not talking about vast multi-tiered levels of codified laws. I'm thinking more of the crime & punishment system. Criminal Law, which is effectively a codified moral system, revolves around punishment.
I don't think it is unbelievable that retribution for undesired behaviour, 'crimes', pre-dated religion.
Che Guava
The Juicy Revolutionary
I'm not so sure about that. I think the notion of a moral code being attached to a religion was borne more out of judaic/abrahamic tradition. I'm not sure that you find anything similar to the ten commandments in hinuism, taoism, or even greco-roman polytheism, yet all of those societies managed to develop legal traditions that, while not entirely secular, are far from theocratic.
Bozo Erectus
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No, when I say ancient, I mean way back to prehistory. The cave painters.
Yeah the thing is though, it never developed.
Think about a band of hunter gatherers 50,000 years ago. From where would the headman of the group get his legitimacy? From their religion of course. The 'laws' of the group would be religious commandments.
Since the concepts of 'good' and 'evil', right and wrong in all human societies are ultimately rooted in religion, I dont see whats so implausible about people in more complex societies sitting down to write their first 'laws of the land', and basing them on the religion that already dictates how people should and shouldnt behave. BTW when I say commandments, I dont mean 'The Commandments'. All religions have their own version of commandments. They all instruct people on how theyre supposed to behave.
We would certainly be better off without religious nonsense. Come sit in my New Testament class if you disagree.
One day I just feel like asking my professor:
"What is the point of this class. I mean, you aren't teaching the New Testament from a historical perspective and you aren't teaching it from a theological perspective. What exactly are you teaching us?"
I predict she'd say something along the lines of so I become better informed about he Bible and New Testament as a whole.
Well what is the point of that? That is circular logic. You can't say we should be taking this New Testament class because the Bible is important, because that assumes God exists. Other than that, there is nothing beneficial to studying the Bible.
Yes, religion should be done away with.
One day I just feel like asking my professor:
"What is the point of this class. I mean, you aren't teaching the New Testament from a historical perspective and you aren't teaching it from a theological perspective. What exactly are you teaching us?"
I predict she'd say something along the lines of so I become better informed about he Bible and New Testament as a whole.
Well what is the point of that? That is circular logic. You can't say we should be taking this New Testament class because the Bible is important, because that assumes God exists. Other than that, there is nothing beneficial to studying the Bible.
Yes, religion should be done away with.
I think that the question itself is pointless. Religion is as natural a part of human nature as anything. Spirituality is the natural response of an intelligent being to an environment difficult to comprehend and greater than itself, and organized religion is the natural response of spiritual beings that tend towards social activity.
Furthermore, looking at how depressing some ancient religions are regarding the afterlife, I reject the common argument that it is just to avoid being scared about death.
Furthermore, looking at how depressing some ancient religions are regarding the afterlife, I reject the common argument that it is just to avoid being scared about death.
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