"Would you . . . ?" Part Two: Scum and Stammerer. (Presidential Debate Thread)

[Rambo919]

Except "woke" was to do with bullying others, you said. "bullying" implies a flow of power that "victimhood" doesn't.

Like I said "weak and strong at the same time". It's a very popular thing to accuse those of left-of-centre of being.

If you are in a position where the MSM carries water for you and the courts automatically take your side most of the time.... how is that not holding power?

The way this is set up is people pretend to be weak to garner support of the strong to fight their fights for them. It's not called the victimhood pyramid olympics for nothing.

It's a kind of power that only holds sway because the majority of the population is demoralized into being terrified of standing out. It's a common weapon to call someone some kind of -phobe or -ist in order to scare them into shutting up and bending the knee... the moment people stop doing this the power evaporates.

 

[Gorbles]

If you are in a position where the MSM carries water for you and the courts automatically take your side most of the time.... how is that not holding power?

Because that isn't what happens. It's just something you attribute to a fiction that's been sold to you by people who've told you what the buzzword you're using means.

Woke originally was promoted as a bastardized version of awake by people that think corruption of language is somehow "cool"

Except you said it was "kinda stolen from David Icke". You going to make up your mind about this definitely not a buzzword that you definitely know the meaning of?

EDIT

As much as I'd love to dig into the implications that slang derived from AAVE represents "a bastardised version" of a word "by people who think corruption of language is somehow cool", I think that's too far off-topic, even for this tangent

 

[Rambo919]

Could you direct me to one or two of these? I honestly can't fathom what you are talking about.

The WEF for example tends to stream their conferences... but almost no one actually bothers to watch them because they are so boring. Random clips do tend to surface now and then though. Dunno if they started locking them down at some point.

 

[Gori the Grey]

So like this, maybe?

VIDEOS
4 global leaders on what’s needed for inclusive, sustainable growth

 

[Rambo919]

Because that isn't what happens. It's just something you attribute to a fiction that's been sold to you by people who've told you what the buzzword you're using means.

Ah but you are viewing this from a murican lens.... in SA since 1994 this has basically been official government policy. Murica is only now starting to be exposed to this kind of brainwashing.

Only here it was called liberation theology and black conciousness. The current applied policy is the National Democratic Revolution designed to take everything whites have and give it to blacks.

Except you said it was "kinda stolen from David Icke". You going to make up your mind about this definitely not a buzzword that you definitely know the meaning of?

DI originated it as being awake to the conspiracy of lizzard people controlling the world. Some genius appropriated it and rebranded it as woke which means being awake to whites controlling the world. It's the same concept.


Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. The_J

 

[Gorbles]

Ah but you are viewing this from a murican lens

My location literally says "UK", but good job on not making assumptions

in SA since 1994 this has basically been official government policy.

Yeah, I've got family in SA. My dad spent close to 15 years there. I appreciate you have stuff to unpack about the consequences of apartheid, but again I will suggest that that takes this tangent all the way out of bounds.

DI originated it as being awake to the conspiracy of lizzard people controlling the world. Some genius appropriated it and rebranded it as woke which means being awake to whites controlling the world. It's the same concept.

David Icke was born in 1952. Again, I'm telling you a simple Google would make you look a lot more informed (for someone insisting their buzzword isn't a buzzword). This is sincere advice!

 

[Rambo919]

So like this, maybe?

VIDEOS
4 global leaders on what’s needed for inclusive, sustainable growth

More like hubris like this

Can't remember the others

 

[Senethro]

So, status anxiety is it?

 

[Rambo919]

My location literally says "UK", but good job on not making assumptions

No real difference IMO really. Where one goes the other follows.

Yeah, I've got family in SA. My dad spent close to 15 years there. I appreciate you have stuff to unpack about the consequences of apartheid, but again I will suggest that that takes this tangent all the way out of bounds.

It's the same thing transplanted elsewhere, most of the thing attributed to apartheid is scapegoating for the failures of attempted implementation of globalist ideas. The ANC literally copied every policy they tried from somewhere else because they have no competence whatsoever and when something goes wrong they either blame Apartheid or just whites directly for not playing along with their insane schemes. The same way the Russians did to the kulaks.

David Icke was born in 1952. Again, I'm telling you a simple Google would make you look a lot more informed (for someone insisting their buzzword isn't a buzzword). This is sincere advice!

He popularized awake before woke was popularized.... it's a simple deduction. You are welcome to point me to an earlier use of the term, unless black consciousness used it which I never game much attention due to it mostly being pretentious hogwash.

 

[Gori the Grey]

More like hubris like this

Ok, so she's the Dean of the School of Government at Oxford University.

She identifies herself as an "elite." And she's addressing an audience she also thinks will identify that way.

She says that the global network of elites have a comfortable rapport with one another, but that they're increasingly not trusted by the populace of the countries that they are in.

It's offputting (even to me who might belong in her group), but the very thing she's marking is the relative lack of power such elites have in their home societies.

 

[Gorbles]

No real difference IMO really. Where one goes the other follows.

Insofar as we're copying the two-party system and both major parties now skew heavily to the right . . . absolutely. But again, that's off-topic.

On-topic, me being from the US would have given me a very different upbringing to the one I got here. And heck, I'm an adult white dude with kids of my own. The fact you see these things as homogenous means you perhaps believe in "globalism" more than you think you do? Or you're being grossly reductive, perhaps without even realising it. Reader's choice!

It's the same thing transplanted elsewhere, most of the thing attributed to apartheid is scapegoating for the failures of attempted implementation of globalist ideas.

Once more:

I appreciate you have stuff to unpack about the consequences of apartheid, but again I will suggest that that takes this tangent all the way out of bounds.

He popularized awake before woke was popularized.... it's a simple deduction. You are welcome to point me to an earlier use of the term, unless black consciousness used it which I never game much attention due to it mostly being pretentious hogwash.

I did point you. I said "Google". If you want to minimise whatever you think "black consciousness" is as "pretentious hogwash" but credit David Icke with "woke", again, we're back to a buzzword you don't actually understand. Or rather, your understanding is filtered through the lens of what you've been told to be angry at. No real difference, really.

 

[Rambo919]

Ok, so she's the Dean of the School of Government at Oxford University.

She identifies herself as an "elite." And she's addressing an audience she also thinks will identify that way.

She says that the global network of elites have a comfortable rapport with one another, but that they're increasingly not trusted by the populace of the countries that they are in.

It's offputting (even to me who might belong in her group), but the very thing she's marking is the relative lack of power such elites have in their home societies.

She is pointing out how undesirable it is for the elites to not have as much control as she wants them to have..... as if everyone not an elite is beneath her class. Which means she is trying to get the other elites to organize better so they can regain the power she thinks they have lost.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Right. But it sounds like the elite are right now on their back heels, not dominant.

Your theory has them pulling all the strings.

 

[Rambo919]

Insofar as we're copying the two-party system and both major parties now skew heavily to the right . . . absolutely. But again, that's off-topic.

On-topic, me being from the US would have given me a very different upbringing to the one I got here. And heck, I'm an adult white dude with kids of my own. The fact you see these things as homogenous means you perhaps believe in "globalism" more than you think you do? Or you're being grossly reductive, perhaps without even realising it. Reader's choice!

In terms of political culture there is very little difference between the members of the 5-eyes. There are minor differences sure but they always end up promoting the same policies in the end.

Once more:

I did point you. I said "Google". If you want to minimise whatever you think "black consciousness" is as "pretentious hogwash" but credit David Icke with "woke", again, we're back to a buzzword you don't actually understand. Or rather, your understanding is filtered through the lens of what you've been told to be angry at. No real difference, really.

Oh I am not angry, I find the lack of understanding bemusing. As I pointed out, the left has never had an original idea in centuries, they always appropriate and rebrand ideas of others to suit their general agenda's. If woke actually did mean simply being aware to social injustice.... why is it almost never used as meaning it? Why is it almost always used in a way where an injustice is invented and exaggerated?

 

[lymond]

Moderator Action: Please get back on topic. Thank you

 

[Rambo919]

Right. But it sounds like the elite are right now on their back heels, not dominant.

Your theory has them pulling all the strings.

Only in the main institutions... which people are starting to abandon globally.... which is making them more desperate because they are slowly losing the control they still have.

 

[Gorbles]

Why is it almost always used in a way where an injustice is invented and exaggerated?

To tie this back to the topic, because you're doing the same thing that Trump does. I'm no fan of Biden and I'd rather wash my hands in lemon water than watch the debate (even managed to avoid highlights, thankfully), but the whole root of "injustice" and "inventing an injustice" is because you've decided that real injustices are fake injustices, and vice versa.

Does this mean every alleged injustice is true by default? No. But you're applying a value judgement; a personal opinion, to a definition. This is how Trump gets his message across, and why I still think it was a tactical failure for Biden's team to agree to this debate at this time. Hindsight has, also, thankfully qualified that personal opinion of mine (in that the debate has triggered a ton of debate about Biden's chances r.e. this election).

You originally claimed "woke" was "kinda stolen" from "David Icke". This is factually untrue, and gaps in your knowledge do not make up for that. It's fine if you don't know where a word came from, the problem is when you claim that you do. It becomes a claim, much like those made on TV by our potentially-presidential candidates over in the US. And claims require evidence, and the cool thing about etymology is insofar as we have a record, it's concrete. It's evidenced. And when the evidence is circumstantial, that also becomes a part of the etymology on one of a dozen dictionary sites that track these kinds of things.

I definitely don't think the Democrats are going to maintain any kind of lead if they keep agreeing to debates where the Republicans can just throw things at the camera without any verification or follow-up. I don't like the Democrats as an institution (some would say I mean the "DNC" here, and perhaps). But the alternate is still worse, from my far and distant vantage point.

 

[lymond]

Moderator Action: Thread Closed.