Would you want to know more about Leoreth?

Oh, it's immersion.
It's really the only way you can learn a language in practice, not just theory. I knew a Kuwaiti guy in college who learned English from playing Counterstrike, his English improved though sheer necessity of communicating. And trash-talking, I imagine.
 
I'm sure he had great manners.
 
It's really the only way you can learn a language in practice, not just theory.
Can confirm. English was the only class i ever struggled with. At some point i got fed up and i've translated my Windows, all my games and majority of other programs i was using to English. Didn't help with my awful accent tho, should've played CS with voicechat but it's too late now i guess.
 
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I feel making collateral affect all units in a tile instead of a max of 2 or 3 would be the most elegant solution to stacking. Would create a natural tipping point where adding another unit to a stack would just be suboptimal compared to splitting the stack in two.
 
I feel making collateral affect all units in a tile instead of a max of 2 or 3 would be the most elegant solution to stacking. Would create a natural tipping point where adding another unit to a stack would just be suboptimal compared to splitting the stack in two.
Wrong thread :mischief:
 
Americans say I have a British accent and British people say I have an American accent. I think this is because my diction is more RP influenced but the words I use are mostly American.
You probably don't sound exactly like this, but it's another accent that sounds British to Americans and American to Britons. (Movie actor/radio announcer accent from the early 20th century)

I've actually interacted with a fair number of younger people from Continental Europe who have native-sounding accents in English. There are other CivFanatics users (embryodead for example) who I would have never guessed weren't native speakers of English.
The student exchange was to Drogheda (north of Dublin), but I've been to Dublin and Belfast a couple of times after that because I had a friend living there for a while.
Funny you mention Drogheda, it's actually one of the city names for the bigger map I made
 

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You probably don't sound exactly like this, but it's another accent that sounds British to Americans and American to Britons. (Movie actor/radio announcer accent from the early 20th century)
No I do not sound like this, I basically just sound like an RP speaker but British people still insist that I have an American accent because I don't say boot and lorry.
 
I don't even want to take credit for it because for the most part DoC also is an iterative project on top of RFC. But I am still astonished that RFC has shown a real novel and interesting way out of the stagnation in the 4X genre and ever since nobody has picked up on its ideas to use it for a commercial game.
It wouldn't surprise me if Civ V having unique abilities instead of traits for civs was lifted from RFC mods. I know the lead designer of it was originally a modder on CivFanatics
 
Yeah I think that's true. However I find it striking how weird and convoluted those Civ5+ UAs often are. And what I meant was more the idea of constricting your gameplay to a subset of the entire historical timeline and offer diverse goals that encourage different styles of play. You could easily do so in a more open and generic way that isn't as tied to real history as RFC is. I wrote that comment before Civ7 came out which does it to some extent (although here I think the game it's stealing from is Humankind) but it's still not really focused or daring enough to offer a new gameplay experience that isn't pick your victory type at the start, select the suitable civ for it, and then stack on modifiers that achieve this victory all the way down the line. When people complain that 4X games start to feel formulaic after the mid game this is what they are talking about. Perhaps you could address that by offering people goals that are achievable before the end game?
 
It's honestly pretty funny that Civ5 was affected by RFC "civilization uniqueness" approach but not actual rise and fall mechanic. I think no 4x game ever done it right (RFC/DoC are pretty close but are rather constricted by the original game limitations).

There were no American settlers in 4000 BC. Berlin, Mexico City, Tokyo, Moscow are all relatively young cities yet are more developed than the most, while terribly poor regions of Western Africa and Central Asia housed mighty and prosperous empires (Merv used to rival Bagdad and Constantonple, and now it isn't even a village). Our human history is something absolutely contrary to snowballing most 4x games present. Civ7/Humankind has attempted to make a step in the right direction but honestly both failed miserably (oh man, don't you remember that awkward feeling when you go to sleep a Greek and awake an Englishman?).

I think that you've correctly identified issue of 4x as a genre being hopelessly bound to "pick strategy, optimize, win" idea, because frankly "overoptimizer" part of community was always the most vocal one (not loud nor noisy, mind you - they just have to theorycraft and make guides), and experimenting isn't something that modern gaming market allows. It's too daring to make a strategy game that completly denies you predictability, doesn't fulfil your power fantasies and instead almsot openly tells you are bound to lose your empire eventually. However, Dwarf Fortress and Small World boardgame show us that losing can be fun, especially if there will be another attempt at winning in the same game. Amor fati.
 
But that's I think the point in the conversation where RFC becomes relevant or interesting.

I have heard many conversations on the topic of the boredom created by long term, multiple session spanning victory conditions that demand rote optimizations. But usually they propose either a "make your own fun" solution (which leads to the sandbox style rules of Paradox games that are generally not very punishing but also do not give you an explicit victory condition) or the unpredictable and difficult "losing is fun" solution that points towards things like Dwarf Fortress (and that sadly, to my knowledge, nobody has yet explored in the 4X or overall strategy space*).

RFC does not fit into either of these categories but manages to escape the long term boredom problem regardless (unless you choose the long term game, which is fine). It's not exactly difficult and punishing and you can easily vibe your way through a game without losing. And you can make your own fun if you want. But it also gives you explicit victory conditions that are focused, pull you in different directions away from strategies that would usually be optimal, and often begin or conclude in only a slice of the overall game length.

In RFC this works because the close connection to actual history makes a crafted experience possible. But I don't think more arcady or simulationist games are inherently precluded from this approach. You could think of mechanisms that dynamically assign goals to you, or perhaps allow the player to pick their goal following some constraints that keep it varied and interesting.

*I also think it is interesting that strategy players (used to?) consider themselves as playing a rather difficult and intellectually challenging genre which I am not sure is actually the case. There is an interesting overlap here between games that suggest depth and strategic challenge but actually proceed by following rote approaches without requiring much innovation or adaptability. Almost like the purpose here is more flattery of the player than providing an interesting game experience.

Which again is why I use the facebook game comparison for these games. It's not meant disparagingly because there should be a space for games you can launch after a day of work and play as a form of relaxation. It's just strange to me that all of the 4X genre has become this kind of game.
 
To me there are a couple of insights you can take from RFC. It's a bit moot because Civ as a series has gone in a very different direction, but I still feel like they provide some explanation as to why the mod and its derivatives do a better job at mitigating the "snowball problem" of late game Civ, where you just grow more powerful and the game less suspenseful. Obviously RFC has the advantage of focusing on a single map, so it can focus on depth at the expense of variability, but I feel like these principles could still be adapted in a game designed from the ground up to follow them:

1) Victories have a disproportionate influence in shaping gameplay experience. If you make the player win through some late game goal, then from turn one they'll be incentivized to think about how they're gonna maximize their odds of winning like that. And as previously said, that tends to homogenize playthroughs, since to be in the best position to accomplish some ambitious, late term goal, being the most powerful player puts you in the best position. This also makes for a less immersive experience, since it feels like rulers would care about concerns that are positively short term compared to the throusand years-lifespan proposed by Civ. RFC has UHVs that are timed to represent the highs of their Civ - I'm not sure what would be the more freeform equivalent, but maybe some sort of themed achievement system, "be the first to do X", "increase your score in Y". It's tricky because you'd have to make the player compete against themself more than they do against the AI.

2) It's okay to not be #1. As a corollary to 1), current dominance shouldn't necessarily be the gold standard either. There are plenty of cultures that achieved very interesting things while being overshadowed by more powerful empires. This is an area where DoC has done a great job at improving on its predecessor mod, giving attention to lesser known cultures and periods and mitigating the typical eurocentrism, etc. of the genre. However, this is probably the most difficult principle to adapt. I feel like you could have some additional starting challenge where you are hopelessly outmatched by your rivals and have to manage that vulnerability, and for goals you'd have to not do as well as them, but better than you started. Obviously this is harder in a game oriented toward multiplayer. I also feel like there could be more subtle mechanics for managing a position of weakness - even DoC still has a somewhat "all or nothing" approach where the player cannot even be a vassal. But that's a very difficult balance to achieve without the player feeling like they've already lost.

3) By default, the number of civilizations should not shrink. The "there can be only one" philosophy of vanilla Civ basically enforces the snowball problem. This makes the game less suspenseful as you advance, and doesn't feel authentic to real history either. While they are very powerful hegemonies in the modern age (hint: I'm typing in English about an American game series), the world feels more like a collection of nations of competing interest rather than a small number of unified empires. Unless the player goes out of their way to eliminate everyone else, the default experience should feature new civilizations arising even as others fall. RFC does this with automatic spawns + the stability system, but I feel like a standalone game could do something more organic than what a mod can do.

4) Large empires should be beneficial in the short term, but hard to maintain. Most of the larger real life empires were pretty short-lived in the grand scheme of things. Some of the most memorable ones fell apart within a generation. Problem is, from the long term perspective of a Civ player that's suboptimal: you mostly want to always keep growing in a sustainable way. This is why I think you'd need to the player to think in the short term like the conqueror they emulate, by having fast expansion gives them something interesting that they can discard afterwards. RFC does this with UHVs + spawns and instability eating away at your hard won empire. This could again be part of some achievement system, or be of direct strategic importance, such as colonial resources that would be very useful at precisely one stage of the game.
 
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1) Victories have a disproportionate influence in shaping gameplay experience. If you make the player win through some late game goal, then from turn one they'll be incentivized to think about how they're gonna maximize their odds of winning like that. And as previously said, that tends to homogenize playthroughs, since to be in the best position to accomplish some ambitious, late term goal, being the most powerful player puts you in the best position. This also makes for a less immersive experience, since it feels like rulers would care about concerns that are positively short term compared to the throusand years-lifespan proposed by Civ. RFC has UHVs that are timed to represent the highs of their Civ - I'm not sure what would be the more freeform equivalent, but maybe some sort of themed achievement system, "be the first to do X", "increase your score in Y". It's tricky because you'd have to make the player compete against themself more than they do against the AI.

4) Large empires should be beneficial in the short term, but hard to maintain. Most of the larger real life empires were pretty short-lived in the grand scheme of things. Some of the most memorable ones fell apart within a generation. Problem is, from the long term perspective of a Civ player that's suboptimal: you mostly want to always keep growing in a sustainable way. This is why I think you'd need to the player to think in the short term like the conqueror they emulate, by having fast expansion gives them something interesting that they can discard afterwards. RFC does this with UHVs + spawns and instability eating away at your hard won empire. This could again be part of some achievement system, or be of direct strategic importance, such as colonial resources that would be very useful at precisely one stage of the game.
This is where I'll defend Humankind a little bit, at least one of it's core concepts in theory. In that game, there are six eras to progress through, each of which presents the player with opportunities to earn Fame, the win condition. You can earn more Fame through expanding your empire, making more money, killing enemy combatants, growing your population, etc. Now, I believe Humankind was designed first and foremost as a 4X game, and as a "historical game" second, which is fine for what it is, IMO. That is, more is better, and you should try to snowball as much as possible, and historical units and civilizations present the outward dressing, so to speak.

But, you can see how this basic mechanic of Fame presents an opportunity for these sort of "short term goals" to happen organically during an unscripted 4X game (at least in theory, with a few adjustments to game mechanics. Humankind isn't exactly designed like this at the moment.) For example, maybe you can earn a lot of fame for conquering and expanding your empire to 10 territories during the classical era... But the instability is too much to handle, so you are forced to split your empire in half immediately after achieving it. Or you can earn a ton of fame for producing 10,000 gold during the Renaissance era, so you sail out and monopolize the rich trade routes... But now other empires are eyeing your treasury with greedy eyes, and start raiding your trade routes. Or you put all your workers into farmers to grow your population to 100 citizens to earn more fame... But doing so leaves you open to foreign invasion, or more susceptible to the plague. Additionally, maybe achieving these goals gives the player even more Fame the faster they manage to achieve them, thus encouraging a more reckless playstyle as the player frantically throws long term considerations to the side in order to complete this short term goal as quickly as possible, to get closer to victory. An inverse relationship between long term stability and winning the game.

Anyways, like I said, Humankind isn't exactly designed like that, it's designed as a 4X game, where more eXpanding and eXtermination is better than fewer. But this idea of tying the win condition, Fame, to short term goals which ultimately hurt your long term prospects has a lot of potential, IMO. Earning Fame is the rise, and the consequences of that is the fall, if you will. The idea of balancing your empire's long term stability and playing it safe... and deciding when to go for broke, and go all in in some regard in order to get closer to a win condition. IMO that has a lot of potential for replayability, and better mimicking our history in unscripted playthroughs.
 
I think that's what priests say in Age of Empires
 
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