Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Gerikes, Feb 16, 2007.
o.O Holy of Holies! This is far better than the original artwork. Can we rope him into this?
Is it just me or is this guy subconsciously working on SMAC 2? Am sure that this is a unity pod? Coincidence????
Is this still being worked on? I'd hate to see it die.
Yes, it is. Progress is happening at different rates as real life intrudes on various members of the team. We're discussing whether to look for another couple of programmers, not to supplant the current ones but to supplement them and speed up progress. Anyone interested feel free to drop me a PM and let me know your qualifications and available time.
I'd love to help, but I simply don't know any programming. Nor can I do graphics. I can write, however, and beta test.
Translation: yeah, the mod is pretty much dead at the moment.
Pity. I'd like to have seen it finished.
We're working to revive things. There's some discussion as to how "finished" to make the alpha release.
Ignore my previous post. The mod just got updated to 3.13.
this is sounding too familiar!
Looks like we are never going to the smac mod. I am guessing the team is down to one like it was at old apolyton.
I think a lot of people get bored and move onto other things. If you guys are struggling a lot, then reduce the scope. People don't need 100% working workshop, they don't need a full replica of the old combat model. The civ model works pretty good.
Try to get something released and move on from there to the next version.
An alpha by definition is feature incomplete, if its feature complete but needs bug fixing, its called a beta.
There's still a fairly large team involved, but we do have lives, jobs, and school to deal with. Throw in an expansion pack, patches, and the updates that that entails and you can see the hurdles we face. I'm glad we waited for BtS and I'm glad we waited for 3.13. I'm sure we all are.
No, that is peacekeepers.
I gather from that that the smac project was only started after 3.13 was released a few weeks ago? (if it has started at all?)
Can anyone care to confirm?
I meant the initial release.
We have been working on the mod for about 6 months with a team of about 8 major contributers to the mod as well as some more minor ones.
The mod is far from complete but we hope have an initial release after we get rid of most of the major bugs and iron some things out so that it is somewhat playable.
First and foremost, I'd like to throw out a big "horray" to everyone working on this project. I can't wait to see what you come up with.
I actually started to tinker around with the idea of making a very SMAC-lite mod for Civ myself, when I realized I didn't have the time or talent to do it!
Anyway – I'd love to help in any small ways I can.
I read through this thread, and wanted to quickly comment on a couple points.
I'm not a huge fan of the workshop – and the 3D terrain isn't a "must have" in my book. But in general philosophy, I agree. Stick closely with SMAC, adding in the elements were Civ4 is better. So, "SMAC-like… but heavy on the SMAC"
I LOVE this. Brilliant idea. Easier to manage than the SMAC workshop even. I'd encourage the development team to pursue this idea further. I understand you are pursuing this – just wanted to add my voice to say I think it's a great idea if it can be practically implemented.
I'd also like to just toss out 1 brainstorm idea for the development team to consider.
Multiple Transcendent Victory Conditions
It struck me that the final transcendence victory condition didn't really fit with all the factions. Sure, there was an economic victory for Morgan, and Diplomatic one for Lal, and Conquest for Yang, Miriam, and Santiago – but if you really want to go all the way to the end (like myself and players like me) it kinda seemed like the Deirdre (Gaian) victory was the only option. It kinda broke the feel of the factions at the end.
What if there were parallel options to the last couple techs? For example, instead of Transcendent Thought, you had an "Ascent to Domination" tech? The tech would be the exact same cost, and would unlock a wonder with the exact same mineral cost as the Ascent to Transcendence – so there wouldn't be any game play balance issues – but instead of joining with Planet, you immediately mind-control every living intelligence on planet… including domination of the developing planetmind… no hippy love-everyone joining of the minds here – just firm and total control for the dictator inside of you!
The benefit is just in flavor. Instead of having to join the Planet Mind, give some other options more in-keeping with the personality of the different factions. Here's just some sample ideas:
Total Domination: All intelligence on Planet is totally bent to your will.
Purge Victory: Develop a super virus to totally purge Planet of the Fungus infestation… and of all those that you decide not to give the antidote to.
Return to Earth: Leave the troubled planet of Chrion behind to re-colonize the now depopulated Earth… except this time, only loyal followers of yours are on the ship!
Anyway – it really wouldn't change gameplay at all – just give the player some more interesting options for the final win.
Final note – asioasioasio's models of Peacekeeper & Hive & University cities… too cool for words!
And seeing those unit models Woodelf has been posting makes me drool like an fat man in a chocolate store!
P.S. If you can get this done, I will personally purchase the 8 leaders of the development team a cup of expensive coffee or tea – just get it done and PM me with your paypal information so I can send the $4 or so!
Thank you ! I agree asioasioasio's citysets are awesome and, for coherence, it would be better if he can do the same for other factions. We have a believer set already but it is just lacking something IMO. It will not be a great thing if not all artstyles are ready for first release.
Cool ideas - Multiple Transcendent Victory Conditions - it would be like different space ship for each nation (or rather Building holding victory type - like UN holds key for diplomatic victory) - so each nation could have unique Transcendent Victory
I love also this silver idea - from what i know in this mod with zombies in bts (i forgot the name) - promotion changes look of the unit - so the chasis came from factory and different promotions make units different - i love this idea
The Long Weekend is coming so probalby there would be brakethrough with new citysets
Wow. I can't wait for this. I loved SMAC, with the exception that I felt railroaded by the plotline. But it is among my favourite games. Hopefully this mod will eventually be complete.
Lo and behold, I finally get the courage to post this, as I have already typed most of this post a week ago.
I wouldn't be too surprised if it's too late to squeeze this into the first release, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try for version 2, at least. If it's worthwhile to do so...
One thing to note in Civ4 (and Civ3) is that there are a handful of traits and each leader gets two of them, filling most of the combinations available. I've come to realize that giving each leader multiple traits might be possible in SMAC. Of course, the results turned out to work better if the leaders of the expansion pack, Alien Crossfire, were also included.
Four of the traits I essentially named after Civ4 traits: Charismatic, Expansive, Industrious, and Organized. I've also named a fifth and sixth traits Veteran and Innovative.
Details of traits:
Charismatic would give extra points to espionage, happiness, and/or culture, and possibly through increasing the percentage of each. Both factions good at probe team usage and three of the factions better at keeping their people from rioting were placed in this category, so the first of those two are rather important. The trait may decrease the production cost of something like the Recreation Commons. This trait was originally going to be two traits, with the second being somewhat like Creative, but only the Believers and Angels with their high probe ratings seemed to work in this area.
Expansive would grant a direct increase to health, or percentage to health. It would probably also decrease the production costs of the recycling tanks and/or a hospital-type building. Considering this trait would cover for Planet, Growth, and increased hab population limits, it became the most obvious choice for a trait for a faction leader.
Industrious would give a direct percentage boost to production. It would also decrease the production cost of a building that would further increase production rates. Considering only the Hive and Free Drones have direct increases to industry in standard SMAC/X, many other factions' draw to this trait had to do more with style (Morgan Industries) or process of elimination (Pirates, University).
Innovative would grant a direct percentage increase to research. It would also decrease the production cost of a building to further increase research, like the Network Node. Only two factions have a direct boost to Research in normal SMAC/X. But since one of them has research as its only benefit, this trait made sense. Even so, if only the original seven factions were to be used, this trait would somewhat fuse with Organized, making a trait that worked much like Financial.
Organized would grant either a direct percentage increase to income (affecting wealth only) or a direct percentage decrease to total maintenance (including both cities and units). It would also decrease the production cost of a building that would further help the economy or its efficiency, like an Energy Bank. I had to stretch what it would take to get this trait, from a positive rating in economy or efficiency or support to usage of the energy grid.
Veteran would offer a free promotion or two, or offer a direct increase to experience points of units. It would also decrease the production cost of one or two military buildings, perhaps the Perimeter Defense or Command Center and Naval Yard. This trait could end up named something else like "Diehard" or "Disciplined". It was going to be named "Aggressive" until I realized one of the factions with this trait isn't what I'd call "Aggressive", despite its main benefit involving combat. Considering the number of factions centered around combat, a trait in favor of such would work well.
And now for which faction leader would end up with each trait!
Aki Zeta 5: Innovative and Organized. +2 Research and +2 Efficiency of SMAX noted here.
Cha Dawn: Expansive and Veteran. +2 Planet made Expansive a no-brainer. The Veteran trait was more out of decent mind worm usage and process of elimination.
Deidre: Expansive and Innovative. +1 Planet meant Expansive would make plenty of sense. Innovative was, however, less obvious. The second trait was at first going to be organized until I realized the +2 Efficiency could effect both research and energy credits, while the Caretakers' energy grid would just effect energy credits.
Domai: Charismatic and Industrious. +2 Industry made Domai the most obvious choice for the Industrious trait. Decreased tendencies to riot made him good for Charismatic, as well.
H'Minee: Expansive and Organized. +1 Planet provided reason for Expansive. Organized came more from the energy grid. This faction could have ended up Diehard, but I decided I'd rather not see the Planet Cult be Innovative or Organized. And Lal is taking the Cha/Exp combo.
Lal: Charismatic and Expansive. Can house two more population points before building hab complexes and habitation domes, so the faction's Expansive. +1 talent for every four people, so the faction's definitely Charismatic.
Marr: Organized and Veteran. +1 Morale and +25% Attack bonuses makes Veteran a very realistic choice. The Organized trait was more a toss-up between the Energy Grid and process of elimination.
Miriam: Charismatic and Organized. Organized got its backing in my mind from the +2 support rating, meaning lower maintenance costs of units, technically meaning lower maintenance costs in general. Charismatic comes from a +2 probe rating.
Morgan: Industrious and Organized. +1 Economy makes Organized reasonable. The Industrious trait came more through style and process of elimination.
Roze: Innovative and Charismatic. +3 probe without -2 Research. Process of elimination was also at work here.
Santiago: Charismatic and Veteran. +2 Morale translates well to Diehard. +1 Police works well with Charismatic. Process of elimination was also at work here.
Sid Meier and Brian Reynolds: Innovative and Veteran. Their Firaxian faction's one trait is that they had Singularity Mechanics, meaning their units would have 4x hit points early on. Thus, the Veteran trait. Innovative comes more from the fact that they have such a late game tech in SMAX (which would probably be quite expensive in the mod). This sample custom faction is the reasoning behind the Veteran trait not being called "Aggressive" instead, as Aggressive doesn't sound to me like it'd work for Sid or Brian.
Svensgaard: Industrious and Veteran. Overusage of naval units suggests Veteran. Industrious was provided almost entirely through process of elimination.
Yang: Expansive and Industrious. +1 Growth without -1 Planet gave Yang a chance at the expansive trait. +1 Industry made Industrious another good choice.
Zakharov: Industrious and Innovative. The Industrious trait came purely from process of elimination. The Innovative trait, however, was much more obvious as research is Zakharov's only advantage in original SMAC.
So would giving each leader two traits be worthwhile? Even with the above knowledge on how it could be done? I honestly don't know, myself, but I do like the aesthetics toward giving each leader eight "relatives" without them essentially grouped into two or three styles (like peace and war). There's also how on one hand, more traits total decreases the difference between the most similar two of them. (Imagine Aggressive and Protective.) But more traits per leader means a lower percentage of traits different between two similar faction leaders. (Imperial vs. Creative, as opposed to each also coupled with Financial.)
The above information is merely suggestions. I suppose all of you (or at least those of you with access to the private threads) can decide whether or not (and if so, how) to apply any of it.
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