WTC Mosque Part Four!!!

Forty-Two

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The purpose of this thread is to discuss the purposed mosque to be built 2 blocks away from Ground Zero. No, this discussion is not dead. We now have a poll. Find it offensive to the 3,000 people who died on 9/11 and the 30,000 who died fighting the war on terror? Say so! Find it bigoted and racist to deny mooslums the right to build this mosque? Say so! I fully support the mosque.

Previous thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=376097


The president is all for it:
Spoiler :
Obama supports 'the right' for ground zero mosque said:
WASHINGTON – Weighing his words carefully on a fiery political issue, President Barack Obama said Saturday that Muslims have the right to build a mosque near New York's Ground Zero, but he did not say whether he believes it is a good idea to do so.
Obama commented during a trip to Florida, where he expanded on a Friday night White House speech asserting that Muslims have the same right to freedom of religion as everyone else in America.
The president's statements thrust him squarely into a debate that he had skirted for weeks and could put Democrats on the spot three months before midterm elections where they already were nervous about holding control of the House and maybe even the Senate. Until Friday, the White House had asserted that it did not want to get involved in local decision-making.
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an independent who has been a strong supporter of the mosque, welcomed Obama's White House speech as a "clarion defense of the freedom of religion."
Gov. Charlie Crist, R-Fla., who was among those who met with Obama on Saturday, lauded the president's position.
"I think he's right — I mean you know we're a country that in my view stands for freedom of religion and respect for others," Christ said after the Florida meeting with Obama and other officials. "I know there are sensitivities and I understand them. This is a place where you're supposed to be able to practice your religion without the government telling you you can't."
Others were quick to pounce.
Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Jeff Greene of Florida took Obama's Friday speech to mean the president supports the construction.
"President Obama has this all wrong and I strongly oppose his support for building a mosque near Ground Zero especially since Islamic terrorists have bragged and celebrated destroying the Twin Towers and killing nearly 3,000 Americans," Greene said. "Freedom of religion might provide the right to build the mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero, but common sense and respect for those who lost their lives and loved ones gives sensible reason to build the mosque someplace else."
The mosque would be part of a $100 million Islamic community center two blocks from where nearly 3,000 people perished when hijacked jetliners slammed into the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001.
The proposed construction has sparked debate around the country that included opposition from top Republicans including Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich as well as the Jewish civil rights group the Anti-Defamation League.
Obama's Friday comment was taken by some to mean that he strongly supports the building of an Islamic center near the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, something he never actually said.
Speaking to a gathering at the White House Friday evening to observe the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, Obama said that he believes "Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country."
"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."
Asked Saturday about the issue during his trip to Florida, Obama said: "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making a decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right that people have that dates back to our founding."
Obama said that "my intention was simply to let people know what I thought. Which was that in this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion."
Some relatives of people killed in the Sept. 11 attacks supported Obama's comments.
The mosque is "in many ways ... a fitting tribute," said Colleen Kelly of the Bronx, who lost her brother Bill Kelly Jr. in the attacks.
"This is the voice of Islam that I believe needs a wider audience," said Kelly, who is Catholic. "This is what moderate Islam is all about."
Opinions are mixed among family members.
Sally Regenhard, whose firefighter son was killed at the World Trade Center, has said the president's comments show "a gross lack of sensitivity to the 9/11 families and to the people who were lost."

The main purpose of putting a poll (!!!!11!!!) was to compare with these poll findings:
New Yorker's opinions said:
Against mosque: 52%
In favor: 31%
Undecided: 17%

Discuss.
 
I certainly wouldn't have a problem constructing a mosque in one of the new "Ground Zero" buildings. It would be a fitting tribute to all the Muslims who died on 9/11.

Originally Posted by New Yorker's opinions
Against mosque: 52%
In favor: 31%
Undecided: 17%
I don't think it really matters what the opnion of the average "New Yorker" might happen to be. The majority of those who live in Manhattan approve it. It seems the further away they are the less the average American supports it, which I find very interesting.
 
I certainly wouldn't have a problem constructing a mosque in one of the new "Ground Zero" buildings. It would be a fitting tribute to all the Muslims who died on 9/11.

I don't think it really matter what is the opnion of the average "New Yorker". The majority of those who live in Manhattan approve it.

agreed, if you also support the construction of our historic Orthodox Church that was destroyed in the attack. It housed 600 year old sacred relics that now gone forever! :cry:
 
Absolutely. There is a beautiful Lutheran church in the Citcorp Building. (It actually sits underneath with an entrance from the building lobby). I see nothing wrong at all in placing them in, or near, any office building.

Exterior_from_East.jpg


sanctuary.jpg
 
Forty-Two said:
Well, for starters, there's saying that since the terrorists were muslim, and since a mosque is an Islamic worship site, that the mosque is in connection with terrorism, which is completely untrue, and how you used an internet meme for your argument without putting the effort to put any reasoning behind it.

Seriously, what the hell. I don't support the mosque ban. Jeez learn about context or something (prohint: Abdurrahman Wahid).

Forty-Two said:
Taoism and Confucianism, despite being founded in the same place and having very similar traditions, they follow very different beliefs and philosophies.

It isn't that simple. You can be both a Buddhist, a Taoist, and follow Confucianism (whatever-the-hell-that-is) at the same time without any issues whatsoever which is exactly what my best friend does. (He also practises ancestor worship as well: which is quite distinct from his Confucianism). Religiously he identifies as a Buddhist but that doesn't preclude him for being or doing those other things. Similarly I have friends who are members of an evangelical Chinese/Korean Church who strongly identify as Christian but still engage in ancestor worship. That kind of thing is the norm in China.

Forty-Two said:
The same can be said for Christianity and Judaism, or Buddhism and Hinduism.

Javanese Abangan and Priyari Muslims practise a blend of Animism, Javanism (for want of a better word), Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam.
 
OMG!
Wait!
If you support the construction of religious buildings around ground zero, then maybe the entire area around could be filled of religious sites of all faiths.
That would be such a wonderful place that would please Christians like me, and perhaps be acceptable to secularists.

Perhaps an awakening consciousness of American religion! :)))))))

I pleased myself with positive thoughts :DDDDD
 
OMG!
Wait!
If you support the construction of religious buildings around ground zero, then maybe the entire area around could be filled of religious sites of all faiths.

That would be a pretty interesting idea.
 
That would be a pretty interesting idea.

Has this ever been suggested before? It seems like a truly reconcilliary idea :)))))

Absolutely. There is a beautiful Lutheran church in the Citcorp Building. (It actually sits underneath with an entrance from the building lobby). I see nothing wrong at all in placing them in, or near, any office building.

Exterior_from_East.jpg


sanctuary.jpg

I agree, it is beautiful and fits with New York architeture,
and does not insult anybody. :)
 
There are actually places of worship all over the downtown area. The original city was located there. The wall surrounding it was at Wall Street. Hence, the name.
 
I don't think it really matters what the opnion of the average "New Yorker" might happen to be.

Or anyone else's for that matter.

Freedom of expression trumps any popular opinion. We are not a mob-rule society.

If those building it acquired the land with their own money, others have no right telling them what to do on it outside the bounds of public safety. And I'm fairly sure prayers and what not generally do not threaten public safety.
 
I certainly wouldn't have a problem constructing a mosque in one of the new "Ground Zero" buildings. It would be a fitting tribute to all the Muslims who died on 9/11.

How about a statue inside to Ward Churchill as well? Fitting?
 
OMG!
Wait!
If you support the construction of religious buildings around ground zero, then maybe the entire area around could be filled of religious sites of all faiths.
That would be such a wonderful place that would please Christians like me, and perhaps be acceptable to secularists.

Perhaps an awakening consciousness of American religion! :)))))))

I pleased myself with positive thoughts :DDDDD

That wouldn't end well....
 
Well, like any religious thing there's a million different views, but in general Muslims don't like to represent religious figures pictorally.
 
Why can't you people just let this die? Get over it. Oh boo-hoo Muslims oh boo-hoo near the site of the WTC. You have religious freedom like most countries... how is that hard to understand?
 
Seems america could learn a lesson in tolerance from lebanon:
In a country with about the same land mass as Los Angeles County which has been at war off and on for nearly four decades, “Ground Zero” for the Lebanese is arguably their entire country—and at the center of their Ground Zero is downtown Beirut, captured and occupied by the Israeli Defense Force in 1982 and which was almost entirely reduced to rubble from Muslim West Beirut to Christian East Beirut, and all points in between.
In the process of re-building Beirut yet again, in 2008, renovations began and have now been completed on the Maghden Abraham Synagogue located in the middle of newly renovated downtown Beirut in an area known as the “Solidere" which has become the focal point and showcase of Lebanon’s rebirth.

This isn’t some hole in the wall, nondescript, “excuse me” synagogue hidden out of view so as to not “offend” Lebanese non-Jews—this is an elaborate, ornate, beautifully designed, cathedral-style house of worship built for a Lebanese Jewish population that totals less than 500 in a country of more than 4,000,000 (in stark contrast to the eight million American Muslims living in the United States).

And wait until you hear Hezbollah’s response to the building of this Ground Zero Synagogue.

(To those expecting a Newt Gingrich equivalent response, prepare to be woefully disappointed).

Courtesy of Hassan Nasrallah himself: "We respect Judaism, just as we respect Christianity. Our only problem is with Israel."
Yet these very Lebanese, who are so quickly labeled as “blood thirsty terrorists” by Newt Gingrich and his army of xenophobic morons, were able to draw a distinction between the Jews “flying those planes” in July and August of 2006 working at the behest of the Israeli government, and the Jews whom are citizens of Lebanon who had no connection with those attacks.

Lebanon rebuilt that Ground Zero Synagogue for its Jews.

Not for Israel. Not for the world’s Jewry. Not as a monument to mark a “Jewish victory” over Lebanon.

Lebanon rebuilt that Ground Zero Synagogue because its Jews lived in that neighborhood and they had every right to build a house of worship in a place they called home.
For crying out loud, Hassan Nassrallah and Hezbollah can even draw the distinction between a Lebanese Jew and an Israeli soldier who happens to be a Jew. So how is it that Americans can’t distinguish between American Muslims who were victims of 9/11 and Saudi Muslims who were the perpetrators of 9/11?
 
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