WW2-Global

[Rocoteh]

Bob1475,

"1. LightLand2 tech is supposed to enable radar towers yet it does not appear to be a real requirement for this. Either this needs to be fixed or the tech should be eliminated.

2. Air1 1945 tech is supposed to reveal uranium but this actually happens at Air2 1944. Probably should be put to the 1945 tech.

3. Ju-488 not set for Lethal bombardment which I presume is an error. Let me know your intent.

4. HE-177 set for Lethal land but not Lethal Sea - was this your intent?

5. A Bomb transport plane not necessary as other late era planes set for tactical missile transport. You may want to remove that ability from the other bombers."
Bob1475

1. OK I will look it over.

2. Notes have been taken.

3. Should have lethal land.

4. Yes.

5. Yes, they should not have that ability.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Hyperborean,

"Well, this is a problem. When you cannot simulate something properly within the game perimeters you have to find an alternative solution. On one hand we have unlimited movement for an unlimited amount of units via railroads, and on the other hand we have a near infinite number of units you can build. This is hardly realistic. That is why I suggested a decreased movement rate, to counter-balance the amount of units you build. It doesn't really solve the problem, but with a more restricted movement you can at least compensate the quantity over quality philosophy that permeates this game.
I know that it took time for the Wehrmacht to move from Poland to the Western front. And then back from France to Poland for the invasion of Russia in 1941. I have not yet begun to build railroads, but I understand that it has become more costly to do so, and that is good. I think that it shouldn't be too easy for the player to move around a massive amount of troops hither and thither through Europe, and fight against the Spaniards one week, and against the Greeks the week after. If the player wants to connect all cities with a railroad he should have to work hard for it.
Also, if the movement rates are halved it should give some weight to logistical problems, and force the player to think more strategically. No matter how many units you have you could still over-stretch yourself if you for instance blitz your way through Ukraine, and discover that your reserves cannot reach the frontlines quick enough. It lends some excitement (and realism) to the game if you know that your reinforcements cannot reach the front in an instant. I think it’s worth taking this into consideration"
Hyperborean

OK, I will look it over.

Again though: It is not cheap to build "real" railways in WW2-Global.

"Yes, a little bit perhaps, but personally I don't mind since I like the challenge, and it gives me something to think about for the next time I invade Scandinavia. But historically the Scandinavian countries were not prepared for war. Even if you exclude the German surprise attack, their armies were in no condition to face a full-scale invasion. Denmark gave up without a fight, Norway could only slow down the German advance, and there is no reason to believe that Sweden would have fared any better than Norway if it had been invaded too. I don't know how many units they start with, but perhaps you could remove a couple of starting units. But I don't mind if you keep it as it is, for this is a what if?-scenario after all, and both Norway and Sweden could potentially have had very strong armies if they only had had more time to prepare for an invasion."
Hyperborean

The OOBs are correct for the Scandinavian nations.
Its possible they can build up forces to fast though.

"Yeah, I've noticed. I think I'll postpone Operation Seelöwe and begin the preparation for Operation Barbarossa instead. But I think I'll wait for him to attack me first. I want to come as close to the historical date for the invasion of Russia as possible. I'm trying to emulate history as far as possible, but I'm afraid I've messed things up by invading France in 1939, and Spain directly after."
Hyperborean

Its worth to remember that Germany had a plan to invade France
in November 1939.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Sasebo]

Rocoteh: Even if the Scandanavian countries are a little bit stronger then historically, it isn't anything a human player can't deal with. I vote keep them as is. Besides, they are still the silly AI; one other thing I forgot to mention about my Italy game is that Sweden razed Oslo after getting into a war with Norway somehow.

A thought occurs to me though. I notice that the AI,US AI in particular sends all those units up into canada. I also see that we never have the trade maps option on the diplomatic screens. Maybe if we had map trading available we could at least stop our allies from those pointless expeditions? I have no idea of that would actually work or not...

 

[Bob1475]

I think the 2.1 version RR offers a good compromise. Building railroads takes a long time and you must dedicate a large group of workers to do so.

Given the size of the map I would not support reducing movements. It is a long way across EuroAsia.

I don't know why the US likes to send its units up to the far north. I think they simply have too many units and not enough transports. An idea might be to give convoys some attack value (i.e. assume they represent a combination of destroyers and transports). The AI might build more of them althought I don't know if they will load them with units. Might be worth testing.

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh: Even if the Scandanavian countries are a little bit stronger then historically, it isn't anything a human player can't deal with. I vote keep them as is. Besides, they are still the silly AI; one other thing I forgot to mention about my Italy game is that Sweden razed Oslo after getting into a war with Norway somehow.

A thought occurs to me though. I notice that the AI,US AI in particular sends all those units up into canada. I also see that we never have the trade maps option on the diplomatic screens. Maybe if we had map trading available we could at least stop our allies from those pointless expeditions? I have no idea of that would actually work or not...

Sasebo,

On Scandinavia: No plan for changes yet.

Oslo razed: Bad news since it was protected.

On map trading: The problem is that in early in the game it will
give disturbing effects, such as 15 neutrals popping up and asking
for trade of maps.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I think the 2.1 version RR offers a good compromise. Building railroads takes a long time and you must dedicate a large group of workers to do so.

Given the size of the map I would not support reducing movements. It is a long way across EuroAsia.

I don't know why the US likes to send its units up to the far north. I think they simply have too many units and not enough transports. An idea might be to give convoys some attack value (i.e. assume they represent a combination of destroyers and transports). The AI might build more of them althought I don't know if they will load them with units. Might be worth testing.

Bob1475,

As things stands now I do not plan to reduce movement.

I want more feedback on this issue before I consider changes.

On US units moving North: I will place US outposts in Canada. Probably that will solve the problem.

Rocoteh

 

[Sasebo]

Well I don't think the move of 6 is broken; it does take several turns to shift from Morocco to Egypt for example. Getting reinforcements/garrisons to newly captured cities is quite a pain for me as Italy. I do notice the Germans at least are busy railing a lot of tiles, which is taking up their workers valuable time. I have 10 or workers in Germany "helping" them mine their hills, which they have completely neglected. Idiots.

I am wondering what Japan will do now that they have pushed up against Burma. The lack of SNLF in large numbers is going to force the AI to get creative if they want to get to India in force, I don't think there is enough of a road network for them to attack in that direction with the 60! tanks they have built up. Japanese Infantry vs. Matildas is not a winning solution, which I think explains why the AI always seems to stall on that border. With me in Baghdad and Kirkuk attracting just scads of UK attention, they seem to be doing better then usual. I am REALLY impressed with this Japan AI this go round. They took Batavia and the other city on that island, took Hanoi recently, and I see they are actually building new transports AND new DDs! Shocking I tell you!

Germany has built up to around 70+ Panzers, so I redeclared war on Soviets now that I am down in Iraq. I am looking forward to see whether the Soviets come down to play with me. Though I note with the lack of a road net their armor has only 1 or two possible paths that they can actually reach me with armor. This is about to get a lot more interesting!

I've played Italy a few times before, and I stopped playing right around the time the UK started bringing hordes of KGVs; I didn't think they could be beat. Well, if you can weather that storm, it IS possible. Then all you have to do is figure out where to go from there. Like Japan, Italy has just way too many options. Which is why it is so fun. I've a feeling if we can somehow pull the Soviets fangs, this game is in the bag. The US is down to like 2 transports and maybe 5 naval vessels to escort them. Rendering their entire gigantic arsenal pretty much useless so far as helping the Allies. With me cutting the legs out from under the UK, this war is going to be decided in Russia! ...and we've got a 3 on 1 going, I like those odds.

One last thing: It is amazing to me how much of a #$%^! pain Malta was in UK hands, and how irrelevent it is in Italy's. Just another poor fishing villiage.

 

[Rocoteh]

Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"I am wondering what Japan will do now that they have pushed up against Burma. The lack of SNLF in large numbers is going to force the AI to get creative if they want to get to India in force, I don't think there is enough of a road network for them to attack in that direction with the 60! tanks they have built up. Japanese Infantry vs. Matildas is not a winning solution, which I think explains why the AI always seems to stall on that border."
Sasebo

That is probably right. I possible that the Matildas should no be
allowed to be produced in India.

"With me in Baghdad and Kirkuk attracting just scads of UK attention, they seem to be doing better then usual. I am REALLY impressed with this Japan AI this go round. They took Batavia and the other city on that island, took Hanoi recently, and I see they are actually building new transports AND new DDs! Shocking I tell you!"
Sasebo


Agree. Its a great surprise.
Maybe they will go for Australia this time.

"Germany has built up to around 70+ Panzers, so I redeclared war on Soviets now that I am down in Iraq. I am looking forward to see whether the Soviets come down to play with me. Though I note with the lack of a road net their armor has only 1 or two possible paths that they can actually reach me with armor. This is about to get a lot more interesting!"
Sasebo

Yes it will be interesting to see what Soviet-AI will do now.

"I've played Italy a few times before, and I stopped playing right around the time the UK started bringing hordes of KGVs; I didn't think they could be beat. Well, if you can weather that storm, it IS possible. Then all you have to do is figure out where to go from there. Like Japan, Italy has just way too many options. Which is why it is so fun. I've a feeling if we can somehow pull the Soviets fangs, this game is in the bag. The US is down to like 2 transports and maybe 5 naval vessels to escort them. Rendering their entire gigantic arsenal pretty much useless so far as helping the Allies. With me cutting the legs out from under the UK, this war is going to be decided in Russia! ...and we've got a 3 on 1 going, I like those odds."
Sasebo

Looking forward to follow this playtest! Its very interesting.

"One last thing: It is amazing to me how much of a #$%^! pain Malta was in UK hands, and how irrelevent it is in Italy's. Just another poor fishing villiage."
Sasebo

Yes, you can not produce much here.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Hyperborean]

Germany - Sid - week 30 1940

A lot has happened in just a few weeks. I was building up my troops near the Soviet border in preparation for an attack, but the Russians chickened out and declared war on America instead, or rather, the Americans declared war on the Russian (a sub-incident?). That was a bit disappointing. I have 30 panzers in Scandinavia, and instead of moving them back to Germany I had planned to use them to take Murmansk, and then to proceed south towards Leningrad. At the same time my panzers on the continent would have swept through Anatolia while Army Group Centre would have defended against the Russian onslaught. I thought it was a great plan, but now I will never know if it would have worked.
I consoled myself by conquering Yugoslavia and Greece. Crete is still Greek, but I've sent some transports towards the Mediterranean. It will take some time before they get there, though (they are currently near Brest). As soon as Crete and the other islands are mine I will invade North Africa. I want to take Suez before the Russians do. Northern Persia is already in their hands, and I suspect that Persia will fall within 10-12 weeks. The Japanese has eliminated Communist-China. Srinagar is within reach of both the Japanese and the Russians, and it will be interesting to see if any of them will invade over the Hindukush/Himalaya.
My u-boats are now operating along the American east-coast. I have sunk an American carrier, and several un-escorted transports. A French battleship has been sighted in the Mediterranean. It sunk my last light cruiser, and Gneisenau has arrived to take care of the problem.

 

[Rocoteh]

Hyperborean,

Thank you for the report.

"A lot has happened in just a few weeks. I was building up my troops near the Soviet border in preparation for an attack, but the Russians chickened out and declared war on America instead, or rather, the Americans declared war on the Russian (a sub-incident?). That was a bit disappointing. I have 30 panzers in Scandinavia, and instead of moving them back to Germany I had planned to use them to take Murmansk, and then to proceed south towards Leningrad. At the same time my panzers on the continent would have swept through Anatolia while Army Group Centre would have defended against the Russian onslaught. I thought it was a great plan, but now I will never know if it would have worked."
Hyperborean

Very frustrating!
I wish there was a "never declare war" option for each civ.

"I consoled myself by conquering Yugoslavia and Greece. Crete is still Greek, but I've sent some transports towards the Mediterranean. It will take some time before they get there, though (they are currently near Brest). As soon as Crete and the other islands are mine I will invade North Africa. I want to take Suez before the Russians do. Northern Persia is already in their hands, and I suspect that Persia will fall within 10-12 weeks."
Hyperborean

In some earlier versions Persia was British controlled.
Maybe it was a better solution.

"The Japanese has eliminated Communist-China. Srinagar is within reach of both the Japanese and the Russians, and it will be interesting to see if any of them will invade over the Hindukush/Himalaya."
Hyperborean

In version 2.2 I will place more victory points in Australia to force
Japan-AI to follow more historical patterns.

"My u-boats are now operating along the American east-coast. I have sunk an American carrier, and several un-escorted transports."
Hyperborean

Sounds like a good strategy that will pay off.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Hyperborean]

Germany - Sid - Week 35 1940

I wish there was a way to "reward" my esteemed Japanese ally.
I sent all my panzers on the continent (roughly 50 divisions) and just as many infantry divisions to Spain to board my transport fleet, which just had arrived there. But at the same time Japan thought it was a good time to declare war on the Soviet Union! So I had to send all these units back to eastern Europe! :shakehead
I wonder if the Japanese AI knows what it is doing? They have a long border with the Soviet Union, and particularly their newly acquired cities in western China must be very exposed for Russian attacks. Even if the Russians are preoccupied in Persia they still have enough strength to crush the Japanese. They must be counting on me to stop them.
Bad news: the Russians razed Kirkuk. That's the third city razed after Hong Kong and Urumtsi.
The good news is that it I was given enough time to remove my workers from the border, where they were building roads. And the panzers in Scandinavia are still in place, so the moment I learned that Japan had declared war on the Russians Army Group North moved to Finland to be in place when the war started. My artillery and Luftwaffe has already begun bombing the Russians. All the Soviet border-cities have already felt my presence, and Liepaja is ready to fall within a week. The Great War has begun! Poor Soviet Union is now at war with pretty much everyone. They will come to learn that I'm their worst enemy.
Here's my revised plan in short (an attack through Anatolia is no longer an option, I have only a few infantry divisions in the south):

My panzers will reach the front in a week, and they will advance towards Leningrad. All my artillery (supported by infantry) has been concentrated to Odessa to tear down that fortress, and then they will proceed to Sevastopol, and take that city before they continue to Leningrad to repeat the procedure there. By that time Army Group Centre and Army Group North (attacking through Finland) should already have linked up at Leningrad, and from there they will march towards Moscow. I expect the Russians will sue for peace before I get that far, but naturally I will not listen. Once war has started between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany there can be no peace. That's my own personal house rule.

Gneisenau has destroyed the French battleship, and the straits to the eastern Mediterranean are now open. Luftwaffe destroyed the last Greek infantry division on Crete just before they were relocated to the Russian front, and my u-boats have taken care of all remaining Greek subs. A British ship ran into a Greek sub, and the Greeks are therefore at war with the Allies. Doesn't matter. The Greeks will be eliminated as soon as I land one infantry division on the island.
When I prepared for war with the Soviet Union I placed all my coastal subs in Stockholm, and a third of my destroyers in Bergen. This was a wise move, since I have located Soviet subs just outside those cities. After just one week I have reduced the number of Russian subs from 125 to 108. They got my Romanian fleet, though, but that was expected. It seems as if the Russian AI doesn't know how to use Istanbul to send the Black Sea Fleet into the Mediterranean. But that's their loss. As soon as I take Istanbul the ships will be trapped there.
Another observation: the AI seems to be slightly better at using transports on the bigger map. In the older versions the transports only seemed to contain one (1) unit, but so far most AI transports have at least 3 units. The British AI landed 3 tanks near La Coruna, and 6 tanks (from 2 transports) on Sardinia. That's an improvement, but the AI is still not using the transports to their full capability.

Well, this just shows how fast things can change. One week I'm about to load transports in Spain for an invasion of French North Africa, and the next week the panzers are being sent back to the Russian border.

Unfortunately I have to quit when things are as most exciting. The university calls for my full attention, and I have to take a short break here. Hopefully I will be able to resume my game in a couple of weeks.

 

[Rocoteh]

Hyperborean,

Thank you for the report.

"I wish there was a way to "reward" my esteemed Japanese ally.
I sent all my panzers on the continent (roughly 50 divisions) and just as many infantry divisions to Spain to board my transport fleet, which just had arrived there. But at the same time Japan thought it was a good time to declare war on the Soviet Union! So I had to send all these units back to eastern Europe!
I wonder if the Japanese AI knows what it is doing? They have a long border with the Soviet Union, and particularly their newly acquired cities in western China must be very exposed for Russian attacks. Even if the Russians are preoccupied in Persia they still have enough strength to crush the Japanese. They must be counting on me to stop them."
Hyperborean

No doubt AI-allies causes much trouble in Civ 3. Its frustrating that
they often goes to war without any logic reason!

"Bad news: the Russians razed Kirkuk. That's the third city razed after Hong Kong and Urumtsi.
The good news is that it I was given enough time to remove my workers from the border, where they were building roads."
Hyperborean

Kirkuk is not protected.

"And the panzers in Scandinavia are still in place, so the moment I learned that Japan had declared war on the Russians Army Group North moved to Finland to be in place when the war started. My artillery and Luftwaffe has already begun bombing the Russians. All the Soviet border-cities have already felt my presence, and Liepaja is ready to fall within a week. The Great War has begun! Poor Soviet Union is now at war with pretty much everyone. They will come to learn that I'm their worst enemy."
Hyperborean

A problematic strategic situation for Soviet I think.

"My panzers will reach the front in a week, and they will advance towards Leningrad. All my artillery (supported by infantry) has been concentrated to Odessa to tear down that fortress, and then they will proceed to Sevastopol, and take that city before they continue to Leningrad to repeat the procedure there. By that time Army Group Centre and Army Group North (attacking through Finland) should already have linked up at Leningrad, and from there they will march towards Moscow. I expect the Russians will sue for peace before I get that far, but naturally I will not listen. Once war has started between Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany there can be no peace. That's my own personal house rule."
Hyperborean

A very good personal house rule I think!

"When I prepared for war with the Soviet Union I placed all my coastal subs in Stockholm, and a third of my destroyers in Bergen. This was a wise move, since I have located Soviet subs just outside those cities. After just one week I have reduced the number of Russian subs from 125 to 108. They got my Romanian fleet, though, but that was expected. It seems as if the Russian AI doesn't know how to use Istanbul to send the Black Sea Fleet into the Mediterranean. But that's their loss."
Hyberborean

That is interesting!

"Another observation: the AI seems to be slightly better at using transports on the bigger map. In the older versions the transports only seemed to contain one (1) unit, but so far most AI transports have at least 3 units. The British AI landed 3 tanks near La Coruna, and 6 tanks (from 2 transports) on Sardinia. That's an improvement, but the AI is still not using the transports to their full capability."
Hyperborean

Yes I agree, its positive. The real problem with AI is that its
not able to fight sustained overseas campaigns.

"Unfortunately I have to quit when things are as most exciting. The university calls for my full attention, and I have to take a short break here. Hopefully I will be able to resume my game in a couple of weeks."

Thank you for the report.
Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Sasebo]

Italy 2.1-Emp. update. It's week 28,1941. Italy has consolidated the Med; and much progress in Africa/Middle East. I own all but the 2 easternmost cities in Persia. The flow of UK units there is slowing me down. The UK recently declared war on Soviets, but the Allies have not joined in yet. I found 5 Soviet subs off Spain, I believe they are the culprits. Though I recently took Tehran and launched several air raids the USSR has not reacted to my proximity yet.

A band of cities from Dongala west to Morocco has been taken; progress is slow but steady on that front. East Africa will soon be connected. I took Aden on the way to placing 2 CV groups in the Persian Gulf. I have a strong naval group guarding the western Med approaches out of Rabat, and I sent a bombardment group north to raid the UK coast to 'test the waters' so to speak.

Despite Italy's pitiful attempt to "help" the Germans in Russia(my exp. corps has done little worthwhile except draw fire maybe), the German AI is doing very well despite their armor hovering around 40 units. I think my workers mining Germany have had some effect on their production at least. More so then my army! Around 9 or 10 cities have fallen so far, and Smolensk and Kiev are on the front lines. I've seen some of the fighting over there and the numbers are just staggering. The Soviets have not researched better tanks yet, which is probably why they are doing so poorly. I've yet to see any advanced Soviet units of any kind.

German AI pales to insignifigance compared to the incredible Japanese AI. If you cut UK/US naval legs out from under them as I have done here with Italy, Japan goes on a rampage! Literally, China and the Dutch are both GONE! They have taken Port Moresby, the Solomon Islands, and razed the NW-most city in Austrailia. Vladivostock has gone from size 22 to size 4, I think it will fall soon. Japan has built up 77 Type97 tanks,26 BB(19 Yamato), and has been steadily building DD,Vals, Kates,transports and even TWO Shokaku CVs! I'm like, who are these guys.

On the AI using transports: I've been careful to check both before and after reports when I sink a transport. Maybe early on they don't get fully loaded, but everything I am sinking now is loaded to the gills. The last US transport I sank had 4 US marines and 2 M3 Lees--no way do I want to let those get anywhere near my cities. As far as sustained drives, well, the AI does not seem to handle it's transport fleets being wiped out. I've seen moderate scale invasions like 4 TR with about 20 units on board,but that may have been an accident. The Western Med does channel them right down Italy's throat though. I think the fact that Italy's troops are much weaker causes the UK AI to try to hit them instead of raiding across the channel unfortunately.

Japan did raze the Soviet City NW of Beijing, and somehow Astrakhan?(city SE of Stalingrad) got razed too. I still haven't figured that one out, maybe Japan had a ROP and was sending troops west when we were at peace with Soviets??? Nothing else makes sense.

I know I asked you to put the Recon unit in, thank you, but I think the AI builds entirely too many of them. Not exclusively but still way too many. To fix that I would suggest dropping the range to 7 or 8, or maybe just giving recon ability to the basic bomber and just dropping the recon alltogether. As a player I find some use for small numbers of those, but the AI must see that range of 9 as being powerful or something. Which it isn't, really. I think other players have mentioned this before, comments?

 

[circumpolar]

2.1. Germany, Demigod, Week 30, 1942

My game is still going on strong. However, I have reached a point where I consider letting this particular effort rest for a while: My Germans own all of continental Europe (except Italy, Italian Barcelona and Tirana, and Scandinavia), the British Isles and Iceland, Turkey and the entire middle east, a "buffer zone" in Russia consisting of the balitic coast, Minsk and all of Ukraine up to Rostov and Charkov, and, by now, all of Africa. The big showdown with Russia is still held off, until they have some better tanks to offer.

The African campaign was, while easy in the fighting, quite demanding on resources because of the huge distances to cover and the poor infrastructure. Also, in the Congo Jungles at one time I had to fall back on infantry, because tanks could not operate in the dense foliage. Very realistic.

By the way: By the time I got there, the Brits had rail-roaded all city tiles in South Africa. Stupid AI, they should have build a rail link to the north instead...

Italy has been a pain in the *** on the Eastern Front, getting in the German way all the time, and even razing Astrachan! I could not stop them unfortunately, because in an instant of strategic error, German bombers had eliminated all Russian tanks in the vicinity before. The Germans have now blocked Italy's land access to the East.

France has been eliminated at long last, with New Caledonia being the last city to fall, victim to a German long range battle group.

This expedition brought further evidence of the see-sawing, bitterly fought island-hopping campaigns by British, American and Japanese in the Indonesian islands. Here the Japanese enjoy numerical superiority with their Yamatos, but every time they conquer a new island city they seem to be kicked out shortly by an new Allied convoy.

Convoys for the Allies are a very good addition. They give the Allies some serious amphibious punch at last: I witnessed one (successful) assault by the Americans on (temporarily Italian) Reykiavik with 4 US-Marines, 2 Wolverines and 2 Shermans.

The Italians, being landlocked now, have started to show some good amphibious action as well. After (successfully, at least for a while, see above) invading Reykiavik from the British, they continue sending strong battle groups of 3 BB and 1 TR with tanks to St. Johns and Puerto Rico? Unfortunately they are mostly slaughtered by Allied air power then...

The Japanese still seem stalled in India, on the line Kathmandu to Benares, with Dacca, Calcutta and all of Burma still in British hands.

Scientific progress: The Germans are the most advanced by now, having developed almost everything there is to find. The Brits have stagnated somewhat, now that they have lost their Home Isles. The Americans are the strongest contenders now, sending B-29s against probing German carrier groups in the western Atlantic. I have just seen the first Iowa BB as well.

Russian science has been a disappointment so far, they have only recently developed Land 1941.

Even the Italians now have better tanks (land 1941?).

It has been a great game, however I am not sure whether it is worth to continue milking the game, mopping up India in the process, waiting for the Russians to develop some serious tanks, in order to have a challenging Great Russian Campaign, or to try some expedition to the Americas...

We shall see.

On city razing: I suggest taking away some wonders on the British Isles (Birmingham and Edinburgh?) and giving them to Hongkong and Astrachan instead, to keep them from getting razed. I think the British Isles are never in serious danger of being invaded, and their cities razed by the AI, except by a human player.

circumpolar

 

[Tomislav]

Hello everyone
First, pardon me on my bad english.

This is my first post here. I am also fascinated with the WW2. I think that some of the regular (or better say elite ) posters here are real masters in knowledge.

Rocoteh, I think you might find this interesting: Civ4 - SCENARIO: WW2 - the European Front by gerbilmuncher. There is also another one scenario from yesterday...

I didn't download your scenario, due to my bad internet connection, but it is obvious that this is great job! I just wanted to suport your great work.

Greetings from Croatia

 

[Bob1475]

Germany Emperor v. 2.1

1943 Report

It is now January 1, 1944, an appropriate time to review the year’s opearations. As 1942 ended we had landed our forces at Saint Johns as a first step in our conquest of North America. Saint John’s was secured in a week and withstood marine counterattacks.

Upon further review of the map we decided to land our first huge wave at Wolf Bay. The plan was that with no railway and large area of control the Allies would present themselves in a “killing field” for our rockets and the Luftwaffe. While we expected large counterattacks we had landed 120 units and fortified all but the rockets. Waves of allied bombers easily destroyed our fighters before they could go to air superiority. Our flak units did respectfully but our continuously reinforced fighters served as suicide protection for the bombers (It was not for 6 weeks until the Navy released carriers from convoy duty to help protect our landing!). The Allies came on with approximately 150 units about 1/3 British and the remainder American. As they entered our zone we attacked with bombers with primary purpose of damaging as many as possible until we built up our bomber force. Eventually some came close enough for our rockets. At one point we were killing 30-40 units per week with our only casualties being fighters.

In January the Japanese declared war on the Russians, probably because we had earlier drive the British out of Asia. We proceeded to race the Japanese across Siberia in order to stop them from razing more cities. We won the races. Also, in week 9 the Finns declared peace with the Swedes but only after we had taken 3 or 4 cities. We also continued our advance in Africa but these fronts were side-shows to the convoys across the Atlantic.

Eventually we made a second landing on the North American continent at Halifax. Now the Allied forces were split but with no railroad to Halifax we did not face significant opposition other than more waves of bombers. Eventually we moved forwarded very cautiously and took Augusta, built our Hidden Palace and gradually moved forward with both wings. The Northern wing stayed on the Canadian side and the Southern wing moved down the Atlantic coast. Eventually our reinforcements opened a central wing. Counterattacks were fierce but our forces were overpowering.

In week 22 the Greeks foolishly declared war and we eliminated them easily. Week 25 brought the Russians to the table and we accepted peace with them down to 5 cities.

In December the Turks declared war and we will eliminate them early in 1944.

Currently we hold the entire North American East coast – Miami through Wolf Bay. Our Northern force has taken Regina and is advancing on Calgary. Our Southern force is splitting and wheeling west. Our central force has split a few times taking Omaha, St. Louis, Little Rock and Nashville. Essentially the Americans have been destroyed but it will take a few months to wrap up the continent and longer to get to Alaska.

We have not seen American or British ships for three months now but they must have some in the Pacific.

In Africa the British are down to two cities although we went around the Portuguese.

In the Pacific the Japanese have eliminated the Dutch and have attacked Australia. We know they held Cooktown for a few weeks but right now the continent is all blue. We fear we may have to finish the job for them.

Our goal is total world domination by the end of 1945. We will pick off the European and Asian neutrals one at a time after the Americans are done and of course the Southern Group will attack Mexico.

It will all take time but it is clear that the world will be German/Finnish/Japanese/Italian in the end.

 

[Bob1475]

Rocoteh - Reflections on the scenario.

You have done a masterful job and I have enjoyed being a small part of making recommendations. I don't know if there will be a 2.2 but I think some consideration should be made for eliminating artillery or handling it like marines and paratroopers i.e. limited automatic production.

We all know that the way to win militarily in C3C was artillery and the mobile rocket unit is overpowering with two shots at 25 attack value. The AI simply does not build or if they have them do not use artillery units as part of the attack (fixed in CIV 4). Unfortunately taking artillery out of the game is not historically correct but then again having artillery ratios of 100 to 1 is not exactly historic either.

Taking away artillery would truly the balance the game. For your consideration.

 

[Anthropoid]

FINALLY, after months of it being in my folders, have had a chance to play a bit on this scenario. Not even sure if I have the latest version. I think it is 2.0 that I'm playing? Dled it about 6 months or more ago.

Playing USA on Emperor.

Definitely an excellent scenario. One of the very best I've seen. The balance in production/sci unit costs, unit strengths, map size, etc., are about as close to perfect as you can get I think with this game engine.

As of Week 5 or 8 of 1941, here was the status: Germany took Poland, and France and that was all. Germany took Birmingham from UK twice but I kept helping them take it back with bombers from Ireland. Italy did not expand into Africa or anywhere at all. Japan seems to have been pretty much held in check entirely in SE Asia by the British. British have extinguished the Thai, Russias declared war on Norway. Most of the other minor power issues have gone pretty much along the lines of actual history.

As is always the case, the AI does not cope well with an extensive navy. By about early 1940 I was starting to island hop and sent a bombardment fleet to reduce Japan to rubble. Sent them again in late 1940, and most of the damage had been fixed but not all. They still did not have all their cities rail linked. I'm not sure what happened to the Japanese carriers, but he sent four BBs around the Cape of Good Hope and up the Atlantic to try to sneak attack me that way in late 1940 I think it was! I now have about six carriers in Atlantic, a couple extra CAs, and of course lots of recons and B-25 in Ireland, but otherwise pretty much just the starting naval force. Germany sank about two CAs, and one BB in Atlantic (Bismarck was quite an annoying opponent for quite a while there!).

Very fun and interesting. It will take me quite a while to wrap up.

My recommendations: Might be good to have 3 or 4 _slightly_ different versions of the .biq. One for "USA Human," one for "Germany Human," one for "Japan Human," etc., with each one having skewed starting forces for the AI in each case, so that, for example in my case, the Germans could take a larger bite of Russia, and Italy could take North Africa or something along those lines.

Alternatively, could have alternative starting dates with starting territory and numbers of units adjusted appropriately.

Awesome scenario! Great job

 

[Rocoteh]

Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"Italy 2.1-Emp. update. It's week 28,1941. Italy has consolidated the Med; and much progress in Africa/Middle East. I own all but the 2 easternmost cities in Persia. The flow of UK units there is slowing me down. The UK recently declared war on Soviets, but the Allies have not joined in yet. I found 5 Soviet subs off Spain, I believe they are the culprits. Though I recently took Tehran and launched several air raids the USSR has not reacted to my proximity yet.

A band of cities from Dongala west to Morocco has been taken; progress is slow but steady on that front. East Africa will soon be connected. I took Aden on the way to placing 2 CV groups in the Persian Gulf. I have a strong naval group guarding the western Med approaches out of Rabat, and I sent a bombardment group north to raid the UK coast to 'test the waters' so to speak."
Sasebo

Sounds like an interesting idea. Overall I think you have established a good
stategic situation. One should have in mind that Italy is very hard to play.

"Despite Italy's pitiful attempt to "help" the Germans in Russia(my exp. corps has done little worthwhile except draw fire maybe), the German AI is doing very well despite their armor hovering around 40 units."
Sasebo

That is positive!

"I think my workers mining Germany have had some effect on their production at least. More so then my army! Around 9 or 10 cities have fallen so far, and Smolensk and Kiev are on the front lines. I've seen some of the fighting over there and the numbers are just staggering. The Soviets have not researched better tanks yet, which is probably why they are doing so poorly."
Sasebo

Agree. That will have crucial impact.

"German AI pales to insignifigance compared to the incredible Japanese AI. If you cut UK/US naval legs out from under them as I have done here with Italy, Japan goes on a rampage! Literally, China and the Dutch are both GONE! They have taken Port Moresby, the Solomon Islands, and razed the NW-most city in Austrailia. Vladivostock has gone from size 22 to size 4, I think it will fall soon. Japan has built up 77 Type97 tanks,26 BB(19 Yamato), and has been steadily building DD,Vals, Kates,transports and even TWO Shokaku CVs! I'm like, who are these guys."
Sasebo

Overall I think this is positive. Japan shall be a severe problem
for the Allied powers. I had some thoughts on reducing the industrial
power of Japan since its able to produce so many Yamatos.
However I think I will abstain from that since one have to look
at the general effect. A Japan that only produce historical numbers in this
scenario will probably not expand at all.

"On the AI using transports: I've been careful to check both before and after reports when I sink a transport. Maybe early on they don't get fully loaded, but everything I am sinking now is loaded to the gills. The last US transport I sank had 4 US marines and 2 M3 Lees--no way do I want to let those get anywhere near my cities"
Sasebo

That is very good news!

"As far as sustained drives, well, the AI does not seem to handle it's transport fleets being wiped out. I've seen moderate scale invasions like 4 TR with about 20 units on board,but that may have been an accident. The Western Med does channel them right down Italy's throat though. I think the fact that Italy's troops are much weaker causes the UK AI to try to hit them instead of raiding across the channel unfortunately."
Sasebo

Yes, that is probably an correct analyse.

"Japan did raze the Soviet City NW of Beijing, and somehow Astrakhan?(city SE of Stalingrad) got razed too. I still haven't figured that one out, maybe Japan had a ROP and was sending troops west when we were at peace with Soviets??? Nothing else makes sense."
Sasebo

Strange!
BTW: Astrakhan is protected.

"I know I asked you to put the Recon unit in, thank you, but I think the AI builds entirely too many of them. Not exclusively but still way too many. To fix that I would suggest dropping the range to 7 or 8, or maybe just giving recon ability to the basic bomber and just dropping the recon alltogether. As a player I find some use for small numbers of those, but the AI must see that range of 9 as being powerful or something. Which it isn't, really. I think other players have mentioned this before, comments?"
Sasebo

The Recon unit will be removed in version 2.2.
I had thoughts on taking it out in 2.1 already.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

circumpolar,

Thank you for the report.

"2.1. Germany, Demigod, Week 30, 1942

My game is still going on strong. However, I have reached a point where I consider letting this particular effort rest for a while: My Germans own all of continental Europe (except Italy, Italian Barcelona and Tirana, and Scandinavia), the British Isles and Iceland, Turkey and the entire middle east, a "buffer zone" in Russia consisting of the balitic coast, Minsk and all of Ukraine up to Rostov and Charkov, and, by now, all of Africa. The big showdown with Russia is still held off, until they have some better tanks to offer."
circumpolar

Territory already lost should cause Russia problems.
I mean: You have Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad within strike range.

"The African campaign was, while easy in the fighting, quite demanding on resources because of the huge distances to cover and the poor infrastructure. Also, in the Congo Jungles at one time I had to fall back on infantry, because tanks could not operate in the dense foliage. Very realistic."
circumpolar

Agree. For that reason it will cost much more to clear forest and
to clear jungle in version 2.2. That will reflect real conditions in a more
relevant way.

"Italy has been a pain in the *** on the Eastern Front, getting in the German way all the time, and even razing Astrachan! I could not stop them unfortunately, because in an instant of strategic error, German bombers had eliminated all Russian tanks in the vicinity before. The Germans have now blocked Italy's land access to the East."
circumpolar

A good solution!
BTW: This is the second time protected city Astrachan have been
reported razed by AI.

"France has been eliminated at long last, with New Caledonia being the last city to fall, victim to a German long range battle group."
circumpolar

In 1939 New Caledonia had 10% of Nickel production in the world.

"This expedition brought further evidence of the see-sawing, bitterly fought island-hopping campaigns by British, American and Japanese in the Indonesian islands. Here the Japanese enjoy numerical superiority with their Yamatos, but every time they conquer a new island city they seem to be kicked out shortly by an new Allied convoy."
circumpolar

That is interesting.

"Convoys for the Allies are a very good addition. They give the Allies some serious amphibious punch at last: I witnessed one (successful) assault by the Americans on (temporarily Italian) Reykiavik with 4 US-Marines, 2 Wolverines and 2 Shermans."
circumpolar

Very positive!
That was my intention.

"The Italians, being landlocked now, have started to show some good amphibious action as well. After (successfully, at least for a while, see above) invading Reykiavik from the British, they continue sending strong battle groups of 3 BB and 1 TR with tanks to St. Johns and Puerto Rico? Unfortunately they are mostly slaughtered by Allied air power then...2
circumpolar

St. Johns and Puerto Rico!
Italian-AI has high ambitions.

"The Japanese still seem stalled in India, on the line Kathmandu to Benares, with Dacca, Calcutta and all of Burma still in British hands"
circumpolar

A common situation it seems, but sometimes (as Sasebo reports)
Japan-AI is able to advance further.

"Scientific progress: The Germans are the most advanced by now, having developed almost everything there is to find. The Brits have stagnated somewhat, now that they have lost their Home Isles. The Americans are the strongest contenders now, sending B-29s against probing German carrier groups in the western Atlantic. I have just seen the first Iowa BB as well"
circumpolar

Interesting.
AI seldom builds B-29.

"On city razing: I suggest taking away some wonders on the British Isles (Birmingham and Edinburgh?) and giving them to Hongkong and Astrachan instead, to keep them from getting razed. I think the British Isles are never in serious danger of being invaded, and their cities razed by the AI, except by a human player."
circumpolar

Astrachan is already protected. I will consider it with regard to Hong Kong.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh