WW2-Global

[KristiB]

Argentina - Week 38-40, 1942

The invasion begins. We land our artillery-heavy forces on the silk between the three main cities on the English isle. Artillery destroys any assemblance of defense they had and we take ZERO losses in taking London, Plymouth, and Birmingham. We also attacked three English cities in North America thanks to the RoP they granted us. Turn 40 sees us boot the English out of the isles, including Belfast. The glorious Argentine Empire now controls 15% of total land and an even 30% of world population...

America is still concentrating on the Japanese. Southeast Asia is a wreck with all the razed cities from changing hands so many times. With the fall of England proper, I see the Germans on the coast move away, hopefully not to go pick a fight with the Russians...

 

[Rocoteh]

KristiB,

"Week 22, 1942 - San Francisco falls and America is kicked off the mainland... They have their capital in Manila now" KristiB

That is really "what if" history!

"Edit: We revise the invasion plan. After peace with Britain, we fast-build many more transports. We plan on invading the British isles with 3 armies, 24 tank divisions, 28 heavy artillery, and 10 HMGs... It'll take 10 turns at sea for the force to get there but it might be the death blow for the British and free up the Germans and Italians... I plan on asking for a RoP right before the force lands and trash my reputation. We think it might be worth it... "
KristiB

That sounds like a very good idea.

"The invasion begins. We land our artillery-heavy forces on the silk between the three main cities on the English isle. Artillery destroys any assemblance of defense they had and we take ZERO losses in taking London, Plymouth, and Birmingham. We also attacked three English cities in North America thanks to the RoP they granted us. Turn 40 sees us take boot the English out of the isles, including Belfast. The glorious Argentine Empire now controls 15% of total land and an even 30% of world population..." KristiB

This playtest have evolved in a way I thought not was possible.
Its really incredible. Based on playtest-reports so far, I wonder if
maybe Britain is the most hard Civ to play.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Allin1joe: Do you really think they would do that? If they are in a locked allaince I would think they would leave their allies subs alone.

Ha! EricA beat me to it. I have never played a game where the AI had a lot of hidden nationality units to play with, so I was not thinking it through perhaps. Still, we have to stop the AI from declaring these silly wars with the US going after Chile after some little sub incident. it is at least worth trying to see what happens maybe.

On those neutrals declaring war or being declared on by the Majors: it is definitely the sub issue, I see the neutral fleet leave their home waters and go roaming every game. In my Japan game the Soviets have parked 30 subs between that island north of the Kuriles and the mainland and fortified them. I am sure bumping into them is what is causing some of those early Japan/Soviet wars.

Speaking of my Japan game: Week 37- the Communist Chinese attack me with 2 tank units. I thought I was supposed to be the aggressor here? They have Oil & rubber and I have none, ugh!
Week 38- 40(FORTY!) China Infantry show up south of Sian. I was sneering at their meager attack values, but I didn't expect to see a stack of doom this quickly! I feel very,very weak on the mainland right now... If Ivan jumps in I am dead meat there. Am currently praying for Stalin to keep himself amused somewhere else for a long, long time. I take Wake Island this turn. Have yet to see any big allied naval response but their navy is swarming in the SE Islands. We'll see how this develops. My invasion fleet heads for Borneo...

Sasebo,

What do you think about the China/Communist-China issue?

Is it easier to fight China now ?(I mean the combined forces of China and
Communist-China.)

Thank you for the report and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Dr Nick,

Thank you for the report.

"Wk51 Italians land more troops in England but Brits take back Plymouth."

Strange surprises from AI.

With regard to the Heavy Bombers US can build I think
there is a very good idea to build them in huge numbers.

Looking forward to see how this playtest evolves.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

There are still some berserkers among us

Tantor,

Yes I agree with that

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh, I also think the hidden nationality is not such a good idea. You would have much less ablilities to bring Uboats into the Atlantic. Also I strongly recommend a bigger map. My Uboats are attacked too soon because of the small map. I can´t bring them into the Atlantic. Also then a French town at the channel would be possible. There it would bwe a good base for Uboats to rest on the way to Brest.

Adler

Adler,

I think the idea is still interesting. However I will not implement it
in version 1.4 as I first thought. Instead I will wait until 1.5.
That will give time to playtest and see which effects hidden nationality
for Subs gives.

On the 362x326 version of WW2-Global: It will take some time, but
my intention is still to release it. Let us hope that waiting time between
turns will be reasonable.

Rocoteh

 

[Tantor]

Bob1475,

"1. Civ clearly favors those countries with established infrastructures on the same continent as military action. By not allowing air transport (realistic for the scenario) we have increased the built-in Civ bias. I am referring here to infinite rail movement." Bob1475

Yes you are right. Maybe I should counter this with creating "sea-railroads"
that I think Rhye use. That is: Corridors where you can move very fast
across oceans.


Rocoteh

In the Barbarossa thread Highlander points to the fact that moving a panzer division from germany to the eastern front could take a week. I believe it should be considered if infinite railmovement is right for this scenario. If each turn was a year then it would seem reasonable, but when it is possible to move a division from Vladivostok to Brest in one turn by rail compared to a great number of turns if you moved it by sea, it may be a significant disadvantage to those civs that rely on transportation of units by sea. Such as England. Wether or not an alternative solution is desirable is of course a decission I leave to you as I understand alternatives will require a lot of work.

-Tantor-

 

[Rocoteh]

In the Barbarossa thread Highlander points to the fact that moving a panzer division from germany to the eastern front could take a week. I believe it should be considered if infinite railmovement is right for this scenario. If each turn was a year then it would seem reasonable, but when it is possible to move a division from Vladivostok to Brest in one turn by rail compared to a great number of turns if you moved it by sea, it may be a significant disadvantage to those civs that rely on transportation of units by sea. Such as England. Wether or not an alternative solution is desirable is of course a decission I leave to you as I understand alternatives will require a lot of work.

-Tantor-

Tantor,

There is one thing we know with regard to railmovement in
CIV3/Conquests: The no-limit move can not be changed with the
editor. Thus the altenative is to remove railroads and instead look
upon the roads as representing a combination of roads and railroads.

German rail-capacity was 5 divisions per week 1939. Then the real-problem
with the game-engine is that there are no quantity-aspect.

Maybe the best solution is to remove railroads and change move-rate
for roads to 8. Before I make such a change though, I want feedback on
the subject, as much as possible .

Rocoteh

 

[Tantor]

What you propose is exactly what I have in mind, but such a change will have many effects and as you say must be considered carefully. It might be more realistic and will require the players to plan their offensives more careful as reinforcements may arrive at a slower rate. But if the change decreases the "fun- factor" of the scenario it is not worth it. In general I believe it will be harder to fight at two fronts and it will be more important to keep forces more spread out to be able to fight off a surprise attack. Defenders of a well developed territory will also benefit as the attackers line of supply will increase if he gets too far away from his production cities.

 

[Adler17]

Week 42 Part 2:
Since Gibraltar fell nothing more has happened.
Perhaps a good point to tell the losses of the nations:
Germany
+ 8 worker
2 bomber
+ 3 Armies
4 German Infantry (remark: due to drafting 12 units were re placed, 2 of them died, so losses are indeed 16!)
17 Uboats type VII (3 rebuild per turn because of wonder, so losses are even higher (37~))
1 FlaK 88
+ 2 PzKw IIIe
0 Me 109 (one destroyed but replaced)
1 He 111
0 Ju 87 B (one destroyed replaced)
+ 1 SS infantry
1 light division
2 special fortress divisions

Japan
5 TR
28 SS
67 DD (!!!)
10 Infantry
11 CL
1 Kamikaze
+ 4 type 97
+ 8 MG
3 CA

The Japanese fleet has sufferd indeed huge losses! This shows the strenghth of the allies. That´s too much.

Britain
+ 1 worker
1 Artillery
4 TR
99 DD (okay, I think we have fearce sea battles, much bigger than in history!)
39 SS
6 BB
1 fighter
2 bomber
1 British tank
3 CV B1
1 British infantry (probably more but replaced)
2 Swordfish
15 CL
2 cruiser tanks
6 Spitfire
10 Hurricanes
1 Skua
+8 MG gunner
2 Gladiator
1 garrison
9 CA
2 FlaK
1 BC
4 CLAA
2 CV B3

Britain has to fight on two oceans. So it will lose many ships. Also they try to build up more land units. Hopefully I can build a transport asap.

USA
+ 4 worker
10 SS
47 DD
1 fighter
+ 17 US infantry divisions
5 CL
3 SBD
2 CA

The US naval losses are much lower than they had to be. they are really winning the war at a so early moment! That´s too early!

The PC turn
3 planes shot down by FlaK over Gibraltar. US? Probably. Now I get the message US are at war with Portugal! Several US CA appear off Brest. French bomb my troops off Gibraltar. No losses, But the bombardment of Gibraltar and Brest is successfully taking out my coastal fortresses!
One of my Uboats is sunk by the RN, which now can unpunished cross the street of Gibraltar! Too bad. However I have to bring my fleet from the North sea into the Atlantic. But that´s easier said than done due to the British destroyer...
The Italians attack a British fleet with 4 submarines. However only 3 are successfully sinking British DD.
It is now my turn. Finally. The yards of Königsberg completed the Prinz Eugen. Now a transport can be built.

Adler

 

[allin1joe]

The other thing to keep in mind is that railroads help the tiles' productivity. If you remove railroads, you might need to change the value that a road provides a tile instead.

 

[Rocoteh]

What you propose is exactly what I have in mind, but such a change will have many effects and as you say must be considered carefully. It might be more realistic and will require the players to plan their offensives more careful as reinforcements may arrive at a slower rate. But if the change decreases the "fun- factor" of the scenario it is not worth it. In general I believe it will be harder to fight at two fronts and it will be more important to keep forces more spread out to be able to fight off a surprise attack. Defenders of a well developed territory will also benefit as the attackers line of supply will increase if he gets too far away from his production cities.

Tantor,

I think your analyse is correct.

Rocoteh


I have now uploaded the requested saved game for Germany
on Chieftain level:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/GermanyC.zip

 

[Rocoteh]

The other thing to keep in mind is that railroads help the tiles' productivity. If you remove railroads, you might need to change the value that a road provides a tile instead.

allin1joe,

Yes you are right. There are many aspects to consider if
the system shall be changed.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Adler,

Thank you for the report. The losses-stats is interesting to study.

As you say the naval losses for Japan seems to be very high.
British naval losses are also very high.

"Now I get the message US are at war with Portugal! " Adler

I wonder if a Sub is the reason again.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Week 43:
Several US CA, Quincy, San Francisco, Tuscaloosa. Vincennes and Wichita are just off Brest. Perhaps I can sink them with my planes... Before I send Z 4 to Brest. And my Dd detects the British sub H 22. A Stuka finishes the job! Then massive air strikes on the fleet. The last cruiser is sunk due to Me 109 Jabos. No losses. Hmm perhaps I can surprise some Brititsh ships in the harbour of Plymouth... Yes, A British CA is sunk! A few Do 17 attack Liverpool (so much North!??!?), because Renown and Repulse are there. Both ships seem to be hit. HMS Valiant appeared off Skagerrak. It is now damaged by the CA of my fleet. I will take it out with Uboats now. U 73 and U 78 get lost, but U 74 sinks it!!! U 15 spots a british sub in the Atlantic and sinks it. However the US BB New York and Texas are spotted!
The British destroyer Skeena is deadly hit by my coastal artillery off Gibraltar.
Thessaloniki is captured by my troops. 3 armies went further to take Athens.
This turn was a mere anti naval turn. Without the fights at Thessaloniki nothing at land happened.

The PC turn:
The Allies are at war with Thailand. The US bomb Brest with their BBs. And now they are at war with the Soviets!!! 4 French planes got lost over Gibraltar due to FlaK. A British huge fleet is entering the Mediterranean, mostly DD. 3 Uboats got lost to British destroyer. I have to send another squadron of them Into the Atlantic...
Finally the Graf Zeppelin is ready, the carrier. I will produce another transport in Stettin. That shouls be enough to make the Operation Sealion real...
Damn. Z 4 is sunk at Brest. Okay, Richard Beitzen is lost. Therefore the US BB will be punished...

Adler

 

[Adler17]

Week 44:
Athens is mine, the Greek are history and wellcome in Germany. Japan took Wuhan and also Guam. It seems to be they´re using the amphibious assaults...
The war at sea is like last turn. The British CL HMS Orion is sunk by a Me 109 Jabo after a Stuka damaged it.
Oh a remark: The US were drivin the Soviet coast south to Japan...
Well back to the front. My planes did fine work: USS Texas and USS New York are history. Also a British DD was sunk. And at Plymouth a british Transport was destroyed. Unfortunately a Do 17 was shot down by Attacking another Britsh destroyer.
Liverpool is bombed. A British plane is destroyed on ground, Repulse and renown damaged.
In the Atlantic U 3 sinks the DD USS Broom.

The PC turn:
U 3 is sunk to a US DD but takes one with her on eternal patrol...
The Brits send more an more ships to the Med.
Turkey and Italy are no longer at war! Why wasn´t I at war with them???
It is my turn now.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

Adler,

Thank you for the report.

"Several US CA, Quincy, San Francisco, Tuscaloosa. Vincennes and Wichita are just off Brest. Perhaps I can sink them with my planes... Before I send Z 4 to Brest. And my Dd detects the British sub H 22. A Stuka finishes the job! Then massive air strikes on the fleet. The last cruiser is sunk due to Me 109 Jabos. No losses." Adler

This is very interesting. I mean AI makes sweeps with its naval units
and expose the units to air-raids despite the fact that there seems not
to be any plan or "thought" (if you can talk about thought with regard to AI)
with the sweeps.

"A few Do 17 attack Liverpool (so much North!??!?)" Adler

I will change that. Glasgow will be more relevant.

"However the US BB New York and Texas are spotted!" Adler

Without escort?

BTW: I will soon start to decide which units to add in graphic expansion.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Week 45:
U 24 wants to take revenge for U 3. 3 US DD spotted: Reuben James, Fox and Herbert. All sunk. The boat is now Elite. But three further US boats are near...2 DD in Plymouth sunk, 2 British cruiser sunk at Gibraltar by Stukas. This small air field got reinforcements by He 111 and Ju 88. With them I should be able to wellcome the British ships.

The PC turn:
2 US DD sunk by one of my Uboats. But a third sank it... Another is sunk by a British DD.
Finally. My 2 transports are ready. it is now my turn.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

Adler,


"Turkey and Italy are no longer at war! Why wasn´t I at war with them???"
Adler.

Its very strange. I can not explain that.

After the graphic expansion I hope that these Soviet air-units
shall be included with their own graphics:

I-15
I-16
Mig-3
Yak-1
Yak-9
Pe-2
Pe-8
Tu-2
DB-3B
SB-2
Sturmovik

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

Please tell me, the units you want to include. Most probabyl it is not enough .
Also yes, NY and TX were without escort.

Week 46:
Off Gibraltar a British DD is sunk to coastal fire. The Brits were beaten heavily: 3 CL, 1 DD sunk, a TR damaged.
2 US DD are sunk in the Atlantic. However my boat is near to 2 US DD... Therefore U 40 which was one of the first boats in the Atlantic, arrived Copenhagen. The first boat to return home.
Liverpool bombed heavily. My last attack is started from the Graf Zeppelin. The Stukas there sink a British battlecruiser!
That´s it. I will continue tommorrow. Before I will give the stats of the armed forces of the end of week 46.

Adler