WW2-Global

[Rocoteh]

Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"Japan AI is going to use it's fleets in a ahistorical way;we are starting the Pacific War in 1939 not 1941 anyway. Unless Rocoteh completely changed this to start in 1941 we are just going to have to live with the odd naval losses I think. Note that I think a human player can handle things for the most part;I don't know how you can get a Japan AI in this scenario to play well outside of mainland asia." Sasebo

Right now I do not plan a 1941 version of the scenario.

Such a scenario would produce more historical results, but it
would also limit the number of choices players have if one compare
to 1939 start.

"Rocoteh: About the RR: I am willing to try it with the 8 moves per road, that seems an acceptable compromise. It will cut down on the Soviets enormous advantage of interior lines at least. I think the change is workable, and the lost production due to no RR is not a big deal IMO. I say give it a try."
Sasebo

Its possible I will introduce it in the 362x326 version to get some
feedback, before it will be included in the standard version.

"About the Hidden Nationality issue: Yes, playtest it for sure, but it might work out. The AI nuetrals don't have huge fleets of subs anyway;and the AI in general is very profligate in using up it's navies. The main thing is whether the locked alliance prevents attacks on allies and whether it prevents all those stupid war declarations that send the AI off in unhistoric directions(i.e. US invading South America FIRST!?? Losing a few extra ships here and there should not be a big deal." Sasebo

Yes as i have stated earlier I still think its very interesting idea
that should be tested.

"Japan playtest, week 40, 1939- 3 more Communist China armor appear and attack! Where are they coming from??? I've cut their rubber supply but their Oil is out of range. Communist China is MUCH harder for Japan to deal with from what I've seen so far. They are in fact on the offensive and I am just holding them back. I did not start the game with anything capable of taking out their special forts in the eastern cities anyway,except my two SNLF. I've had to destroy two small stacks of infantry and about 5 tanks from C.China so far. " Sasebo

That is good news. I mean that AI is more of a challenge.

"If more of my fleet had started as veterans this would have been better. Regulars are tough to promote sometimes. I lost a CA attacking a DD;I think the new defense values are working well. Also, this is the first game I've played with CV and a good air force to start; I love it! CVs rule!2
Sasebo

I will make carrier-based air more lethal in version 1.4.

"A pity we don't have a rail system like in the Activision version(Call to power); rails were only 1/5 a point, and even maglevs way late in the game were only 1/10, and both were expensive to build in terms of public works. The unlimited movement and capacity is the really broken part here. I hope they fix this in Civ 4." Sasebo

Yes I agree. I played both Call To Power 1&2 some years ago.

"Edit: Could it be set in the editor that rails have the same move rate as roads? I know that probably sounds silly,but I know what I am trying to say... " sASEBO

The problem is that you can not edit railroads at all. Thus you can
only edit move rate for roads.

One can note that the quantity-aspect of railroad-movement
have been standard in computer wargames for many years now.
(In these games there is a limit on how many units that
can be moved with rail each turn.)

Hopefully it will be introduced in Civ 4.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Since I started the railroad question a long time ago I thought I would respond to the various proposals.

I think adjusting railroads is not the answer as it is much more complicated than any of us can determine. My suggestion, which is doable, is to increase movements for naval units.

Bob1475,

I do not intend to make fast changes on this.

I will probably test the fast sea-corridors mentioned in another
post. More and more it seems like the British Empire is the hardest
Civ to play. Maybe France is harder, but I am not sure.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

DrNick,

Thank you.

"wk52 minor action, I lose a CL but sink 6 Italy and one IJN sub near the Marianas. Italians wasting alot of resources far from home!" Dr Nick

Yes these actions by AI (sending the fleet to the Pacific) is
really pointless!

"wK2 I capture Iwo Jima!" Dr Nick

Will be harder to capture in version 1.4.

"Wk3 the big battle! I lose 2CL, 1DD and 5 subs but sink the Hosho, the Ryujo and the Hiryu. Also sank 1BB, 1CL, 2CA and 4 DD and two transports." Dr Nick

A very good result.

"Carrier air just cannot seem to get it done against BBs. Not sure if there is a within the game way of fixing this. Ideally it would be nice for planes to have an anti-ground and separate anti-naval rating, otherwise Dive Bombers will be the terror of the ground war too. Ah well maye in Civ4." Dr Nick

I agree with what you say. Carrier-based air will be more powerful in
version 1.4. Hopefully not to powerful.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Adler17]

@Sasebo: I think Turkey did not attack Italy and that´s why I am not in war with them. As the Allies now are not at war with the Soviets, only the US.

Adler

 

[Adler17]

Week 46 PC turn:
A US DD sinks a Uboat. Battle between US and Soviet DD south off Plymouth. 4 US DD were sunk by the Soviets for the price of 3 Soviet DD!
Britain loses Battleship in Med off Sardinia due to Italian BB!
The last Soviet destroyer sink a US DD off Brest.

Turkey lost Adana and the city west of it, which was razed.
Japan captures Sarmi, Foochow, Guam, Marianas and Wuhan.
Italy Crete. (afaik)

Adler

 

[Tantor]

Maybe Rocoteh just need to make a few judicious 'breaks' in the RR lines even if they are not historical just to better balance things.

This could be a solution to consider since it would make the time aspect of unitmovement over long distances slightly more realistic. Railroads such as the transiberian RR did not have the ability to move units from coast to coast in one week.

Have a nice weekend

-Tantor-

 

[Adler17]

Italy is at war with Spain. Hmm. Perhaps it is a good idea to declare war, too. I mean before the Italians have occupied Spain. This would also lead to a real save back. And indeed no real problems- only my used divisions have to heal. So the Operation Seelöwe is postponed a bit, but will take place in 1939!
The British DD HMS Foresight is sunk by coastal artillery south off Valencia.
Now I have to select my targets for the air strikes here:
a) US task group with BB USS Arkansas, CV USS Ranger and DD Borie and Simpson
b) British convoy of BB HMS Barham, DD Greenville and transport
c) French BC Dunquerque
d) British CV Glorious with CL Caradoc
I decided to sink as many ships as I can do so I do not attack the US at this moment.
c) and d) are sunk. My last Stuka available attacks HMS Havok off Lisbon. However a US fighter of the USS ranger intercepts it- and is shot down!
U 39 arrives Copenhagen and is saved. However of the 2nd wave of Uboats I sent into the Atlantic of 19 Uboats all were sunk.
3rd wave just arrived- 10 boats.
Over Britain another Do 17 is shot down over Liverpool. Therefore the last British battlecriúiser was sunk.
The rest of my not used planes is transferred from Hamburg to Paris.

The PC turn:
I´m at peace with Norway!
A US DD is sunk by a Ubaot. U 10 sinks a US CL. 2 Uboats are sunk by enemy SS. I had to leave the game to search for the telephone for a short while, so I didn´t see the whole French and Italian turns. The Italians seem to have beaten the Brits in the Med. The AI is not historically. It is better than the Italians in the whole war!!!

My turn:
Addtional to the 3 type VII Uboats my yards completed Z 22 and my first type IX boat- And finally BISMARCK!
It is now my turn

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

Adler,

Thank you for the report.

"a) US task group with BB USS Arkansas, CV USS Ranger and DD Borie and Simpson
b) British convoy of BB HMS Barham, DD Greenville and transport" Adler

One can not say that AI spends many units on escort of capital ships
and carriers!

It will be interesting to follow this playtest.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[allin1joe]

American Playtest Week 7, 1940

Not much overall. A couple more cities are done with their improvements and are building Marines in about 5-6 turns. My army still only consists of 2 Marine units, but I now have 5 cities building Marines. In the Pacific, we had a showdown with the Japanese fleet. 3 seperate stacks of Japanese ships were going somewhere (not sure where, but they went between the Caroline Islands and Davao and were still heading SE). My fleet intercepted. The final tally:

Japan loses (if I remember right .. I played last night)
Stack #1 -- 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser (20-16-5 ship, not sure if Cruiser is the right class), 1 Aircraft Carrier and 2 destroyers

Stack #2 -- 2 cruisers, 1 aircraft carrier and 3 destroyers

Stack #3 -- 3 cruisers, 1 aircraft carrier and 5 destroyers

America's loses
2 battleships, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer

I still have 1 battleship in the arena with an escort of about 30 ships, but I am probably going to bring another battleship forward so I can spread my fleet out a bit to monitor traffic in the Pacific.

 

[Adler17]

Week 48:
U 75, which I send to Greenland meets two enemy submarines. Both sunk for becoming elite and a HP! A Do 17 sinks a US DD in the atlantic. That was the DD which sunk the last Soviet destroyer. Retaliation in the Atlantic. 4 US DD that arrived the very tile in front of U 76 are sunk. The boat is Elite now and takes also out the CL south of this group! U 10 takes out two further, most probably US, submarines. A third is sunk by U 21. And a fourth the next tile. U 56 does the very same. And it is promoted from consript to veteran! U 57 has also a meeting with US comrades- The US boy are now requiescant in pace.
Of my 8 surviving boats of the third wave 8 were damaged, but they sank much more units, even if they were sunk now!
The US task group, a) (see above) is now my main target of the Gibraltar air fleet. Done. All 4 ships sunk! USS Arkansas and USS Ranger are sunk by Stukas, Borie and Simpson by He 111.
A recce plane spotted the US DD opkins off Wick. The Graf Zeppilin leaves the minefield near Copenhagen and launces an air strike on that plane. The 2nd warship that is the victim of the Stukas of my carrier. Then U 77 spots two further US DD in the Irish sea. One is sunk by this boat, USS Bernadou, But Breckinridge is another target for the GZ. Such a carrier is excellent! Such planes are excellent!
At land I transfer my damaged units to Paris to heal. When they are healed I will start with Seelöwe.
The Bismarck made her maiden voyage to bomb London, where she took out the coastal fortress.
That´s it for this turn:

PC:
It seems to be the Italians sank an allied BB off the Algerian coast, most probably French. Oh I forgot to use the spy I have now in France... My spy says that it was probably a British BB sunk by the Italians...

Adler

 

[Adler17]

Week 49:
Preparations for Seelöwe: Armies regrouped, fleet transferred to the German bay, 4th wave of 20 Uboats sent into the Atlantic.
U 75 spots 7 US DD in the Atlantic near Greenland. It attacks the smaller staple and sinks USS Cushing and USS Case. However it loses 3 HP and has now only 3 HP left.
A Me 109 spots the HMS Ramilies off the Algerian coast. It is just in range of my Stukas...This time they damage it so badly that my He 111 can make the rest. Now only HMS Barham is left. I suppose in Malta.
Next turn is Day X, invasion of Britain.

Adler

 

[Adler17]

PC turn week 49:
U 75 is able to sink another US DD but the next one sends it to eternal patrol... Thailand and Britian are now no longer at war, this means all allies... A British TR is sunk in London after trying to pass U 99 in the Channel.
The French attack Izmir with a tank unit and are successful. But the town is not falling...
The Italians bomb Corsica like every turn...

Now it is my turn.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

American Playtest Week 7, 1940

Not much overall. A couple more cities are done with their improvements and are building Marines in about 5-6 turns. My army still only consists of 2 Marine units, but I now have 5 cities building Marines. In the Pacific, we had a showdown with the Japanese fleet. 3 seperate stacks of Japanese ships were going somewhere (not sure where, but they went between the Caroline Islands and Davao and were still heading SE). My fleet intercepted. The final tally:

Japan loses (if I remember right .. I played last night)
Stack #1 -- 2 Battleships, 1 Cruiser (20-16-5 ship, not sure if Cruiser is the right class), 1 Aircraft Carrier and 2 destroyers

Stack #2 -- 2 cruisers, 1 aircraft carrier and 3 destroyers

Stack #3 -- 3 cruisers, 1 aircraft carrier and 5 destroyers

America's loses
2 battleships, 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer

I still have 1 battleship in the arena with an escort of about 30 ships, but I am probably going to bring another battleship forward so I can spread my fleet out a bit to monitor traffic in the Pacific.

allin1joe,

The Japanese seems to have suffered rather heavy losses.

Do you have any specific plan for how to go after the build-up?

So far I have not seen any playtest where the US player have
decided to go for Germany and Italy first.

Maybe that strategy would pay off with a large number Heavy Bombers
to back up the offensive.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Adler,

Thank you for the reports.

"Of my 8 surviving boats of the third wave 8 were damaged, but they sank much more units, even if they were sunk now!
The US task group, a) (see above) is now my main target of the Gibraltar air fleet. Done. All 4 ships sunk! USS Arkansas and USS Ranger are sunk by Stukas, Borie and Simpson by He 111." Adler

Again: Interesting that AI exposes it Capital ships to air-raids in this way.

"Then U 77 spots two further US DD in the Irish sea. One is sunk by this boat, USS Bernadou, But Breckinridge is another target for the GZ. Such a carrier is excellent! Such planes are excellent!" Adler

I think US AI soon will be short on units.

"Next turn is Day X, invasion of Britain" Adler

That will be very interesting.

A new graphic have now been included in version 1.4: Its the
German Field Haubitzer by Wyrmshadow. In WW2-Global I have
renamed it to German Artillery Brigade. It will replace the standard
artillery unit. Artillery units for other Civs will be added.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[Snorken]

P.S.Y.C.H.O.,

Thank you. I am glad to hear that.

I have now decided to go ahead with the 362x326 project
and complete it.

With regard to the computers most people have a 362x326 map
is largest map that can be used.

Rocoteh

That's very good news! In a few months i'll buy a new computer with 1024 Mb RAM, i hope the 362x326 scenario (what are you gonna call it?) will run pretty smooth on that machine when it's released...

 

[allin1joe]

allin1joe,

The Japanese seems to have suffered rather heavy losses.

Do you have any specific plan for how to go after the build-up?

So far I have not seen any playtest where the US player have
decided to go for Germany and Italy first.

Maybe that strategy would pay off with a large number Heavy Bombers
to back up the offensive.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

I was thinking about amasing an army of 10-15 Marine units and take out Mexico. I was planning on taking out Japan next, however, since it's never been done, I'll go the other way. During my war with Mexico, my Eastern seaboard cities will build transports while my Western cities will build re-inforcements for my war in Mexico/invasion of Europe. Once I think I have enough ground troops, I can start building some heavy bombers to re-deploy to my airbase in Ireland. I am hoping my war with Mexico goes well enough to promote some Marines and maybe making an army or two. That, and getting extra cities to produce from are the reasons why I'm going after Mexico first.

 

[KristiB]

"The is the reason:

Brazil, Argentina and Chile had 5 Battleships 1939 (2+2+1). These ships
had been built in Britan before and during WWI.

These nations had no capacity to build their own Battleships during WW2.
However since in this scenario "what-if" is important they will be able to
research Battleship-tech in 1.4." Roco

Yeah, but I stole the BB plans when I conquered America

I'd also suggest a crappy marine unit maybe for the neutrals. I can't even consider taking the 1 hex islands with my poor 6-8-1 infantry

Update on Argentine scenario -

Week 4, 1943: In the latter part of 1942 after taking the British Isles, we kicked the French off the European continent and destroyed Spain and took Gibralter and Lisbon. I had considered sending a force to Australia but it would take the transports 14 turns to get there so I continue to feed the war to the east. We have just landed in Northern Africa and taken the new French capital, Algiers, as well as Rabat. Our current numbers stand at 17% of world land and 32% of world population. Viva la Argentina!

In other parts of the world, Philipino-based America and India-based Britain have push back Japan to it's original borders. The Soviets continue to be quiet and I have no idea where Germany is currently sending it's units. Italy is still at only 5 cities after being booted from Africa. We long ago passed the Axis on the power scale and are equal to the Soviets. Allied power number is about 40% of the total.

 

[Bob1475]

Americans - Emperor v. 1.3

After abandoning my British effort I decided to try the Americans.

An unusually quiet game.

It is now week 28 1940.

Germany hold Poland, Brussels, Amsterdam and Paris. However, the French have held their remaining home cities, Spain remains with its four cities and the UK holds the British Isles.

Germany has Vilnius but that is the only action evident between Russian and Germany. Of course, they may have gone back and forth a few times as I did not watch closely but the good news is that they seem balanced.

Germany seems very peaceful.

Russia has taken all of Finland but did not raze a city which is good news.

Germany has taken Damascus and one Turkish city Erzurum.

Someone has razed Jerusalem and Amman just like in my British game!

Now for the real shocker - Italy has not lost a city! Usually by now there has been some action in Africa but as far as I can see the Italians have razed a few French cities.

Another interesting item - the Germans hold Gwadar in India. I had lost this city to the Japanese in my British game. Seems the Persians will let anyone through!

In Asia the Japanese have taken Canton, Nanning and Hanoi and have razed Hong Kong. The Russians hold Chengtu, Chungking, Wuhan and Kumming. Very bad news for the Chinese.

My Americans have taken all miscellaneous Pacific islands except for the Marshall Islands which will fall soon. We have not had a difficult time with the Japanese fleet although we have not seen much of them for a few months. The Japanese had taken some of the Phillipines but we have them all back now.

I will be hitting someone in South America very soon as my cities are pretty well developed. After that the Japanese homeland and into Asia.

Something is bound to happen between the Germans and Russians soon.

 

[Sasebo]

KrisitB: Sure you can take those islands; air units have lethal bombard... hint, hint! It is easy to take them when no one is left alive! naval bombard would help too.

Adler17: I see in your reports that you are going after the AI fleets with your air units very heavily; are you not losing many planes at all or just not reporting all your air losses? I avoid using air vs. stacks of ships wih AA since I have seen what that massed flak can do; I've gotten 50% kill rates vs. AI when they are dumb and attack my ports when I have a fleet present. Massed DDs are indeed effective!

Rocoteh: I wasn't suggesting you do a 1941 start version, just pointing out that our results will not likely be historical since the US and USSR are more then likely going to be involved heavily early. I am doubting whether I can do what Japan did in sweeping south and getting all those islands since the US will be all over me much sooner then in history.

Also I have yet to try UK but I urge you not to decide if they are too weak until you get more playtest reports from them. To be honest with that huge fleet and excellent air and ground units I was avoiding them so far because I thought they would be too easy. I consider them about #3 in terms of power at the start, and UK usually does alright in the games I've seen; It is hard to see how they don't with all those BBs. Yes, your turns may be long and you will be involved all over the map, but I suspect UK would be anywhere from average difficulty to cakewalk. Now Japan...

I'm not recording specific dates in my notes for this one,just trying to focus on the larger/interesting events. I am up to Week 42? or so of 1939. Japan is indeed a big challenge! I have been surprised by the C.China armor strength and aggressiveness;they are definitely tougher then before I think, Did they start with some armor??? I have seen like 5-6 tanks so far, no idea where they are gettting them. I assume they are not a democracy, so they should not be rush buying them either. If the Soviets decide to come after me I think I am toast. Manchuria is my weak rear area,and I just don't have enough troops yet to feel secure. Japan needs to build more of all types of units;we have an especially great lack of infantry at the moment.

C.China is being very aggressive, China proper has been very,very quiet. Soviets are busy crushing Turkey at the moment. Germans took low countries and Yugoslavia and are stalemated in France so far. Italy took Cyprus again, and razed Port Suez again. I have cleaned out all allied ships around Phillipines and the islands east of it, except for two UK CA bombarding the Marshalls. US fleet just gave me a shock and have arrived to the NE of the Kuriles with 3 stacks: 8 CA, 4 CA , and 5 BB! I think they mean business. Now two squares west of them is the 30 Soviet subs fortified; I have this strong suspicion I have just discovered why the US declares war on Soviets every game. I look forward to the bloodbath next turn!

Even if they don't I am gathering up my heavy forces and heading N to protect the home islands. I am even getting the Kamikaze unit in position in case they threaten Tokyo. Those other 3 CV/BB task forces are still off the Marcus/Wake islands. I have a Carrier Battle Group with 2 BB and CA support down at Borneo;I think they must stay a few turns to secure it and recuperate. I have a lone BB I took from this group heading to the Marshalls to deal with the UK CA bombard group. Another 2BB/2CV group at Marcus Is. weighing our options vs. the US CV groups and trying to defend the easternmost part of our empire. I have shot down a number of US air units with flak/fighters. Wish I had my lone george unit here instead of at Borneo. I am glad I was screening for US transports since now I have 3-4 BBs reasonably close to those US CA/BB groups up north. I am bringing my shore bombardment group of 1 BB and 5 CA from off Foochow to meet them too. I don't know how others play it, but my navy gets spread all over;Japan is worse then most for me.

I'm going to try and fend off the CA/BBs and maybe sink one of the CV groups operating to the east. Between Wake and the Kuriles the US is infiltrating me with small stacks of Elite DDs; this US AI is being both aggresive and pushing me on all fronts. Japan seems VERY hard by comparison to other civs. Even China felt more secure, Japan is wide open to seaborne attack, and the Russians are looming large up north. We'll see how it goes...

 

[KristiB]

My Argentinian (8) bombers don't scare anyone... Try bombing a city with a population of 21 and British tank with a defense of 19 in it and let me know how that goes...