dferrill,
Thank you for the report.
It will be interesting to see if there will be a more active play
from Japan-AI in the Pacific now.
Looking forward to follow how this turns out.
Welcome back with more reports.
Rocoteh
WW2-Global
- Thread starter Rocoteh
- Start date
dferrill,
Thank you for the report.
It will be interesting to see if there will be a more active play
from Japan-AI in the Pacific now.
Looking forward to follow how this turns out.
Welcome back with more reports.
Rocoteh
Bob1475,
Thank you for the report.
"Soviet Russia Demigod v. 2.4
Reminder - week 23 1941 I took Persia and sued for peace."
Bob1475
A good move.
"I built up forces to simultaneously attack Finland and German European allies along with Communist China. Before I launched my attacks, Yugolavia declared war against me in week 28! Not sure what brought this on. Week 29 they declared war on France. Seems a little suicidal and it was. Week 32 I finished conquering Yugoslavia but had to now rebuild a few forces so delayed attack for two weeks. Launched attack in week 34 against Communist Chinese, Finland and Sofia. Communist China taken in week 37.
German counter attack was not hard to handle. Luftwaffe shot down much of my airforce but we had enough tanks to trade two/three for one. Finns were tough but we took them slowly. With the Yugoslav location as a launching point we had to take out Tirana which was easy. Battles focused around Zagreb but we held out own easily against Hungarian infantry, German panzers and Italian marines and cavalry."
Bob1475
Sometimes AI declares war without any reason and without logic.
Its very disturbing!
"I took the Japanese held city of Su-Chou but stopped my forces there to keep the Japanese strong to keep the American busy. Eventually I ground down each of the East European cities (ex Poland) and took the last Finn city in week 50 1941. These were my goals for the war which essentially took 18 weeks plus five for staging forces. The Germans are not a problem so again it is decision time.
In the Pacific the Japanese are doing well. They actually retook Saipan althought not Guam. Taipei is under their control although at pop 1. Hirsoshima is pop 12 which is pretty good given American tendency to go for that city.
On the other hand the British have retaken HongKong and also Hanoi. The British also took Corsica (presumably from the Germans) and they actually attacked and held Rimini for a while but the Germans took it. Spain lost Zaragoza to the Germans"
Bob1475
Somewhat better play from Japan-AI here then in other playtests
recently reported.
"Rocoteh after I finish this game I will try one as Soviets with the Germans at a higher aggression level one level up or should I push it higher? Unfortunately that will be a while as RL calls me."
Bob1475
Two levels up would be very interesting.
(Its possible I will try that in the Special AI version earlier mentioned.)
Thank you and welcome back.
Rocoteh
Thank you for the report.
"Soviet Russia Demigod v. 2.4
Reminder - week 23 1941 I took Persia and sued for peace."
Bob1475
A good move.
"I built up forces to simultaneously attack Finland and German European allies along with Communist China. Before I launched my attacks, Yugolavia declared war against me in week 28! Not sure what brought this on. Week 29 they declared war on France. Seems a little suicidal and it was. Week 32 I finished conquering Yugoslavia but had to now rebuild a few forces so delayed attack for two weeks. Launched attack in week 34 against Communist Chinese, Finland and Sofia. Communist China taken in week 37.
German counter attack was not hard to handle. Luftwaffe shot down much of my airforce but we had enough tanks to trade two/three for one. Finns were tough but we took them slowly. With the Yugoslav location as a launching point we had to take out Tirana which was easy. Battles focused around Zagreb but we held out own easily against Hungarian infantry, German panzers and Italian marines and cavalry."
Bob1475
Sometimes AI declares war without any reason and without logic.
Its very disturbing!
"I took the Japanese held city of Su-Chou but stopped my forces there to keep the Japanese strong to keep the American busy. Eventually I ground down each of the East European cities (ex Poland) and took the last Finn city in week 50 1941. These were my goals for the war which essentially took 18 weeks plus five for staging forces. The Germans are not a problem so again it is decision time.
In the Pacific the Japanese are doing well. They actually retook Saipan althought not Guam. Taipei is under their control although at pop 1. Hirsoshima is pop 12 which is pretty good given American tendency to go for that city.
On the other hand the British have retaken HongKong and also Hanoi. The British also took Corsica (presumably from the Germans) and they actually attacked and held Rimini for a while but the Germans took it. Spain lost Zaragoza to the Germans"
Bob1475
Somewhat better play from Japan-AI here then in other playtests
recently reported.
"Rocoteh after I finish this game I will try one as Soviets with the Germans at a higher aggression level one level up or should I push it higher? Unfortunately that will be a while as RL calls me."
Bob1475
Two levels up would be very interesting.
(Its possible I will try that in the Special AI version earlier mentioned.)
Thank you and welcome back.
Rocoteh
Rocoteh some ideas to improve the scenario.
1.Un land lock Philadelphia.
2.Rename Bagdad Baghdad.[Baghdad is the correct way to spell it]& rename Kuweit Kuwait or Kuwait City
3.Try to take away a few Soviet cities I have not played this yet but it looks like they may be too strong.BTW have you reached the city limit yet?
If you have I think you should cut out some of the French Africa cities like
the ones in the middle of the desert and and a few Soviet cities.
And add a few cities in the Pacific and Asia.
1.Un land lock Philadelphia.
2.Rename Bagdad Baghdad.[Baghdad is the correct way to spell it]& rename Kuweit Kuwait or Kuwait City
3.Try to take away a few Soviet cities I have not played this yet but it looks like they may be too strong.BTW have you reached the city limit yet?
If you have I think you should cut out some of the French Africa cities like
the ones in the middle of the desert and and a few Soviet cities.
And add a few cities in the Pacific and Asia.
1. Already implemented with regard to version 2.5.
2. Notes have been taken.
3. I do not agree. Soviet industrial capacity was strong September 1939.
On the city limit:
One city left.
On cutting out cities in French Africa and Soviet:
They will remain, since I do not want to create "holes" in the map.
Rocoteh
Serutan
Eatibus Anythingibus
Agree wholeheartedly. The problem the Soviets had
was threefold. First, that industry was putting out
obsolescent/obsolete product. The T-34 was just starting
to get to full scale production in 1941 when Barbarossa
started, and IIRC the situation was even worse as regards
aircraft.
Second, most of the Soviet industrial evacuation happened after June 22, which meant that in 1941,
there were severe shortages of everything. This was not
really corrected until the relocated industries finally got
up to speed in 1942. And of course, some industry was
captured by the Germans, along with a lot of resources,
particularly in the Donbas region.
Third, the Red Army had been beheaded by the purges
of 1937-38. The effect of this IMO can't be fully simulated; making the inital Soviet units weaker than their German counterparts is the best you can do in this game. What can't be simulated is how bad command and control
were in the Red Army up until late 1942.
The Dragonlord
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Messages
- 43
Rocoteh
Some ideas I believe will help Japan & Italy.
1-The Japanese home island with Sapporo on it has no air trade & so those 2 cities can't build very much.Korea also does not have air trade tho it seems they have full production at start. As mentioned here Italy needs Air trade for its African oil. To solve this I suggest the following. Rename the Ruhr Industry improvement to something more generic(Trade Center?) make it allow air trade,need Fascism & keep the prod. bonus(4). Place one in Sapporo & maybe Korea & 1 in Italian Africa. This will give the 2 Sapporo island cities full production & also keep Korea from losing theirs(which happened w/Gibralter & Suez in one of my games).This will greatly help Japan's ability to produce new units & improvements which they badly need.The 1 in Africa for Italy will give them oil until they lose it.Japan could use the production bonus & Italy won't keep Africa long enough to make a difference.This will have no impact on Germany since they will get the same benefit as before & air trade will not really affect anything because Berlin is so close. The advantage of this also is that no wonders need to be used to accomplish this.
2-Make Communist China neutral at start like the USSR is. My observations have been that Japan expends a lot of time & units fighting them.I also believe that the reason they keep DOW'ing USSR is because they trespass trying to flank Comm China & declare war when told to leave. In a mini test I did they didn't DOW USSR & were more agressive & successful in China & SE Asia.This may not be historically correct but is one of those compromises
mandated by the limitations of CivIII.
3-I have a question for you. How are Korea,Gibralter & the British middle East able to have full production at start w/o air or sea trade? Thanks.
Hope this is helpful.
The Dragonlord
Some ideas I believe will help Japan & Italy.
1-The Japanese home island with Sapporo on it has no air trade & so those 2 cities can't build very much.Korea also does not have air trade tho it seems they have full production at start. As mentioned here Italy needs Air trade for its African oil. To solve this I suggest the following. Rename the Ruhr Industry improvement to something more generic(Trade Center?) make it allow air trade,need Fascism & keep the prod. bonus(4). Place one in Sapporo & maybe Korea & 1 in Italian Africa. This will give the 2 Sapporo island cities full production & also keep Korea from losing theirs(which happened w/Gibralter & Suez in one of my games).This will greatly help Japan's ability to produce new units & improvements which they badly need.The 1 in Africa for Italy will give them oil until they lose it.Japan could use the production bonus & Italy won't keep Africa long enough to make a difference.This will have no impact on Germany since they will get the same benefit as before & air trade will not really affect anything because Berlin is so close. The advantage of this also is that no wonders need to be used to accomplish this.
2-Make Communist China neutral at start like the USSR is. My observations have been that Japan expends a lot of time & units fighting them.I also believe that the reason they keep DOW'ing USSR is because they trespass trying to flank Comm China & declare war when told to leave. In a mini test I did they didn't DOW USSR & were more agressive & successful in China & SE Asia.This may not be historically correct but is one of those compromises
mandated by the limitations of CivIII.
3-I have a question for you. How are Korea,Gibralter & the British middle East able to have full production at start w/o air or sea trade? Thanks.
Hope this is helpful.
The Dragonlord
I am testing as Japan (2.4, deity) and have found an (IMHO) interesting quirk in the US behaviour:
Around week 45 1939, four US carriers, two battleships and several lighter ships arrived outside of Kwajalein and began intense bombardment of the city. They kept on doing some 20 air raids turn after turn after turn but made no attempt to actually capture the city (which they could easily have done). There was no US transport ship nearby as far as I could see.
Thus, I gathered a large task force myself and sent it to attack the US ships outside Kwajalein. My initial air strike hit them hard week 52. But still they did not move and did not even focus all their fire power on a counter-strike against my ships. Instead many of their remaining planes just kept on bombarding Kwajalein - to no avail.
Will get back to you with a full report later!
Around week 45 1939, four US carriers, two battleships and several lighter ships arrived outside of Kwajalein and began intense bombardment of the city. They kept on doing some 20 air raids turn after turn after turn but made no attempt to actually capture the city (which they could easily have done). There was no US transport ship nearby as far as I could see.
Thus, I gathered a large task force myself and sent it to attack the US ships outside Kwajalein. My initial air strike hit them hard week 52. But still they did not move and did not even focus all their fire power on a counter-strike against my ships. Instead many of their remaining planes just kept on bombarding Kwajalein - to no avail.
Will get back to you with a full report later!
Serutan,
I think the current strenght of the Soviet forces are rather accurate.
Then as you say there was severe problems with Command and Control
that can not be simulated within the Civ 3 game-engine.
A "Command Point" system used in many wargames would have meant
a huge difference!
Rocoteh
The Dragonlord,
1. Sounds like an interesting idea. With regard to version 2.5
a Special Trade Wonder have already been placed in Benghazi.
It connects Libya with Italy.
I will work out a solution for the Japanese home islands also.
2. I think this is a very good idea! I will consider it for version 2.5.
3. Fore sure a good question.
I can not explain that right now, but I will check this issue.
Thank you for your comments and welcome back.
Rocoteh
MrErik,
I agree.
Very strange US-AI behaviour.
This type of action from AI have seldom been reported earlier.
Thank you for the report and welcome back.
Rocoteh
Baldurslayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Messages
- 130
As far as I know the Italians did in fact build the fortifications around Tobruk, but more importantly than historic accuracy, without a true strongpoint in Africa, the Italians will be dealt with too easily. That and with no good possibility to implement the Afrikakorps as a German intervention force, a fortress will be a way to simulate the problems the UK and Commonwealth forces faced in that region.
Something else I've been thinking for some time. Shouldn't the US and UK forces have some mobile AAA ground units? The Germans have the Panzergrenadiere with a AD value of 2 and movement of 2 giving them rudimentary air defense in fast offensive operations. Could the late war infantry have at least an AD value of 1?
All the best.
Baldurslayer,
Yes you are right. Tobruk was a fortress September 1939.
On AAA-units:
A very good idea. It will be implemented in version 2.5.
Best Regards
Rocoteh
The Dragonlord,
They can connect overland (when the scenario starts) to Trade Wonders.
However if one takes Gibraltar as example, the connection will be lost
should there be war with Spain.
Rocoteh
Baldurslayer
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Messages
- 130
A US airbase in the UK
Well I am not sure what effect this will have
The US AI builds a lot of bombers when they have a base in Europe (happens when the US takes Sardinia or Corsica). Now this would intensify the bomber war in Europe but to what effect?
Playing as the US this will give one a great air-bridgehead making axis AI advances in Europe even more difficult as it already is at the moment. For a human player it is not that difficult to compose a naval taskforce with amphibious elements early on to take Sardinia from the Italians, creating a better base in Europe as an airfield in the UK. This taskforce might include one or two carriers bringing along some fighters for an effective local air cover.
Playing as Italy I dont know how far these US bombers reach but if they do reach Italian territory or naval units then the Italians have to endure even more bombardment
Playing as UK and France a welcomed addition
Playing as Germany The only real drawback I see is that they have to produce more 109s at the start but have more opportunities to have elite units in the process of shooting down these bombers and luring the US AI into committing resources to a largely ineffective endeavour, as opposed to strengthening its industrial base, infrastructure etc.
On the whole I am not sure that such an airbase in the UK will improve gameplay despite its charm.
Btw.: Major US bombing in Europe started as late as 1943
RAF & USAAF Bomb Tonnages on Germany 1939-45
Year: RAF US 8th airforce
1939 31 tons -
1940 13,033 tons -
1941 31,504 tons -
1942 45,561 tons 1,561 tons
1943 157,457 tons 44,165 tons
1944 525,518 tons 389,119 tons
1945 191,540 tons 188,573 tons
All the best
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