WW2-Global

Test report (2.4, Japan, Deity):
Initial strategy: build workers/mines etc. Focus on production. Avoid spending resources on science, instead buy improvements. Defend against any US attacks and focus offensive on China to increase production capability.

Week 36-44, 1939:
All available infantry transferred to Asian continent to aid in offensive against China. Air superiority and lousy Chinese infantry allows for very few losses. Ningpo and Amoy are taken. Guam is captured by our SNLF forces.

The US navy sends two groups of capital ships against the Japanese mainland. The first is sighted before arriving outside Tokyo and is destroyed using air strikes, naval bombardment and battleship attacks. The second group is also destroyed, 7 tiles east of Okinawa, by Japanese submarines and battleships.

A third group including 4 US carriers arrive outside Kwajalein and begins relentless (and meaningless) air bombing of the city.

Week 45 1939 - 3 1940:
The campaign in Nat.China continues without significant problems. Nanning, Kweilin, Liuzhou, Chang-Sha and Yenan taken. Elimination of Com.China begins. The US task force outside Kwajalein is destroyed completely. Will the US fleet ever recover?

Week 4-16, 1940:
In Europe, Germany has now taken Verdun, Lille, Paris, Lyon and Strasbourg. Toulouse and Bordeaux are razed by the Germans.

Japan captures Davao and almost all the remaining cities in Nat.China and Com.China. Three US transports are discovered heading for Japan, and sunk together with their weak escort ships.

15 divisions of British infantry seem to converge on Kunming for two weeks but then (sadly) they turn around and head for some other unknown goal.

Week 17-22, 1940:
Manila falls after intense bombardment. Com.China destroyed. Saigon captured. Railroad from Pusan to Amoy finally completed. The US manage to sneak past my naval screen with one transport, but the 5 marines inside it fail to take Kochi. 2 other transports are discovered and destroyed.

Cagliari is captured by the US, while Italy takes Corsica.

Week 23-32, 1940:
Chungking and Hong kong falls after brave resistance. The Japanese army then continues southward and reaches Bangkok week 31. On the eastern front, Honolulu is now also in Japanese hands.

Meanwhile, Germany has occupied what is left of continental France.

So, Japan now has control over a large number of cities fully boosted for production and we seem to dominate the Pacific. What should be the next goal? Try to invade the US? Or Soviet? Or maybe occupy India? So many options...
 
Gattamelata said:
Agreed. This has always been a weakness of the naval Civ3 game. The second crucial weakness is the ability for a human player to use ports (and minefields in this scenario) defensively. The easiest way to see this is to play Germany, station your entire fleet in the minefield closest to London and the English Channel, and use hit and run tactics to wipe out much of the Royal Navy as it attempts to pass through the channel without ever leaving your naval units vulnerable to counterattack. In this way I have been able to acquire early domination of the Mediterranean by playing as the Italians, effectively wiping out the French and British navies through superior deployment and exploitation of the "leave port, attack, return to port in a single turn" strategy.


I'll try to respond to some of your observations based on what I've learned by following this thread for more than a year. Rocoteh is of course the final authority, and I may have misunderstood or misremembered some things.



This is how the scenario was until 2.3 or 2.4. The current setup is an attempt to mitigate the overwhelming power of Soviet offensives into Germany that have been observed in playtests of earlier versions.



For the UK, US, Germany and Japan, this is unquestionably true. For other civilizations that don't have long-range units capable of recon, the Recon plane is a very valuable unit.




My speculation is that the difference is to simulate the historical differences in taking different cities. Cities garrisoned with a single Garrison (defense 8) should be relatively easy to take, while cities garrisoned with 4 Special Fortresses (defense 12) should be more difficult.

Also, Soviet Garrison (defense 3) seem to be deployed for two reasons: 1) to simulate weak Red Army resistance in case of an early Barbarossa, and 2) to provide an overlandland pathfinding barrier so that, for example, Japan doesn't try to march troops to France through the Soviet Union.




Many of these are simply to make the territory accurate, which I think is a good idea. If there was a large territorial "hole" in the map in the middle of Africa, it would make conquering West Africa much faster for the Axis and Soviets.
Click to expand...


1.) This simply points out what is given - that playing as a human for Germany does produce slightly better results than the other option; likewise, the AI for the British will not use the RN effectively. If a player was not able to figure out the tactics needed to knock out the AI in its headlong charge to battle, then it would be an issue of some concern. The issue is how to prod the AI into a situation where they do not blow everything they have at the first moment, allowing a freeing up of naval assets.

2.) I've been following this mod for quite a while as well, so will endeavour to reply.

a.) I haven't encountered said massive offensive, but if it is a factor, then it certainly requires amelioration.
This can be done without the presence of the various one-city-civs by use of fortresses, static fortress brigades in fortifications, and slight tweaking of terrain to give an advantage to the defender. Historically, of course, the Soviet advance into Eastern Europe was rapid at stages; for purposes of gameplay, this can be contained using the methods outlined and others - make the Danube unpassable, perhaps?
What I do not see at this time is how the 3 civilisations slow the Soviet offensive, save in encouraging the Red Army to take out all of its foes and thus splitting its axis of advance.
It would be interesting for Ploesti to play a role.

b.) The remaining civilisations are China, Yugoslavia, Greece, Persia, Turkey, France, Thailand, the South American conglomerations, Scandinavian civs, Netherlands, and Belgium.
France can have its own air units given said extra ability.
For the minor civilisations, who in many cases aren't really playable, fighters or bombers can have the role as appropriate - the luxury of wing sized recon formations does detract potential production and support from needed combat units.
I can't say I've ever seen the AI in this or any mod or game utilize reconnaissance assets effectively.

c.) They can still be combined, and appropriate adjustments made in veteran status and numbers. Any truly hard city can have a proper fortress. It is also an issue of naming and defining units appropriately. My perspective is one of contemplating which capabilities are duplicated without due justification; if they can be removed, it opens up unit space for potential new inclusions or revisions.

The Soviet Garrison was not included in my initial statement - it serves its purpose well.

d.) Accurate territory is one thing; distribution of cities for their own sake is another. Given the limit of cities that can be placed on the map, killing off unnecessary smaller cities gives a small hedge for any placements of important cities.

The pair in North Africa are deep in the continent, without much hope of useful development, without links to resources and not of any great strategic value. They do not make conquest any slower, given that a force that hits them is cutting them off from support by very definition.

The Canadian cities are not exactly cities in their own right at this time; are isolated, small, located in the rather rugged and barren northern reaches, and not capable of producing a range of units. Any power that gets to them in an invasion of Canada would not particularly need slowing down, as they would be already on the verge of triumph.

This still leaves a good collection of productive and viable cities in Canada.

Winton, in Outback Queensland, is not a transport nexus, nor has any great unit production capabilities. It has a population barely more than 1500 in this era, let alone WW2. If a settlement in this area is required, Mount Isa would be more appropriate.

Cooktown, whilst an important base for Allied troops in Northern Queensland, is small, and perhaps Cairns (which served a similar role in a similar location for the purposes of our map) could substitute for it; this is a real toss up between them.


Middlesborough could be placed in Britain, given the empty coast available and the importance of the Teeside.

Perhaps substitute Bristol for Cardiff; include Southampton inbetween Plymouth and Portsmouth; consider Manchester, Lincoln, Norwich, Newcastle, Aberdeen or Inverness and Nottingham.
 
I think if we want the German AI to attack the neutrals then we should make the neutrals part of the allies.

Make Norway-Denmark join the allies.
Make Yugoslavia join the allies.
Make Greece join the allies.

Maybe to help Japan.
Make Thailand join the allies.[I know that technically Thailand joined the Axis but that was after Japan invaded Thailand] [Or maybe make Thailand part of Japan to help them in SE Asia.]

P.S. I have A bit of civ burn out and I am very busy so I will not do a play test for a few days.

P.S. P.S. Please add 1 light tank conscript unit for Poland they did have armoured brigades. And I have seen several brigade level units in the game.
 
Germany SID v2.4

I decided to test it out.

At first things went very well, probably because I was very agressive because I knew by tech advantage would disappear over time. On the other hand I was more careful with my units knowing that the dice were loaded against me.

1939
36 - Walked into Danzig after Luftwaffe annihilated the Poles.
37 - Radom
38 - Warsaw taken - Poland is ours!

Half of Luftwaffe targeted in the West - primarily against British fleet. Other half prepares for attack on Russia.

40 We attack Russia - Liepaja taken
41- Vilnius
42 -Riga
43 - Amsterdam taken in the West
Brest-Litvosk in the East
45 - Minsk taken
Russia declares war on Norway - I presume a sub
47 - Rotterdam taken
48 - Litvosk taken
49 - The Hungarians sign a peace agreement with the Russians

More to come.
 
In my current playtest ver2.3 USA Sid, My strategy is to allow my allies to carry the brunt of the fight but support them with large quantities of money.

In all my years of playing scenarios (including this one) I have never seen more aggressive play from any AI nation. Perhaps, If one artificially gives the Axis and especially Germany a greater economic potential there may be an increase in agressive response after the fall of France.

I have never seen the Dutch, Chinese, French and especially the British play with the level of aggression as I have in this playtest. The last "week" the chinese army threw 72 units at Irkust and lost but has another stack in excess of 50 going to hit them next "week." The Dutch actually invaded the Japanese homeland before the British or USA! The chinese are still battling to hold onto Warsaw.

I think my strategy of Lend-Lease (giving away just about all my spare money on 50% to 60% of my cities on wealth for the last 100+ weeks has allowed the AI to build units, buy improvements, use spys etc. allowing my strategy of a small USA army to work. Increasing the German Economy by about
1000gp per week should do the trick.

Comments?

Aecon!
 
Germany SID v 2.4

Continued...
1939

50 - Japan declares war on Russia (really would have preferred this had not happened, France is getting a little frisky) I am going to try and delay this so I am not attacking Red forces going East

51 - Despite my best efforts the Axis treaty forces us to war with the Reds

1940 -

2 - Disaster! Reds take Vienna - I saw them in the area but I thought they were after Budapest (this was why the Hungarians wanted peace after all). I actually was rooting for the Russians so I could take the city. I have no spare units close enough to pounce - I will get tanks there by in two weeks.

4 - Hungarians take Vienna! I suppose I should cheer for them but I hope the Russians move in so I can take Vienna back.

5 - We take Brussels

9 We take Lwow after a long protracted battle

10 - Russians and Hungary reach peace - sure, the Hungarians have greatly expanded their little empire. In any case, I am for it because the French tanks are getting to be a problem and British landed twice to try to get to Brussels. I need to focus on France for a while.

12 - We take Antwerp.

That is all for now. Tech moving very slow, not sure we can win this although we have gained a lot of lebensraum in the East.
 
Aecon - A fascinating strategy! Unfortunately the British will still not land but it should be interesting. If you do not balance the Japanese in the Pacific they will grow and be quite agressive although they really are not a threat to the mainland. They may try Alaska though.
 
Bob1475 said:
Aecon - A fascinating strategy! Unfortunately the British will still not land but it should be interesting. If you do not balance the Japanese in the Pacific they will grow and be quite agressive although they really are not a threat to the mainland. They may try Alaska though.
Click to expand...

Actually, The British have been maniacs. They conquered most of the Japanese homeland, eliminating Japan and razed a couple of cities there. They are currently engaged in some kind of massive Tank vs Tank encounter off-screen - I am assuming around Persia or Afganistan. They have taken Istanbul, Lwow and 2 other cities from the USSR. Have made a successful Amphib Landing of Europe and have taken back Holland and Belgium along with the French who have thrown the Nazis out of France except for Strasbourg. They have landed and conquered all of Italy except Torino.
 
MrErik,

Thank you for the report.

"Test report (2.4, Japan, Deity):
Initial strategy: build workers/mines etc. Focus on production. Avoid spending resources on science, instead buy improvements. Defend against any US attacks and focus offensive on China to increase production capability.

Week 36-44, 1939:
All available infantry transferred to Asian continent to aid in offensive against China. Air superiority and lousy Chinese infantry allows for very few losses. Ningpo and Amoy are taken. Guam is captured by our SNLF forces.

The US navy sends two groups of capital ships against the Japanese mainland. The first is sighted before arriving outside Tokyo and is destroyed using air strikes, naval bombardment and battleship attacks. The second group is also destroyed, 7 tiles east of Okinawa, by Japanese submarines and battleships.

A third group including 4 US carriers arrive outside Kwajalein and begins relentless (and meaningless) air bombing of the city."
MrErik

The above really shows one of the problems with AI.
There is nothing you can do with the editor to stop AI from
launching this type of pointless attacks.
It remains to be seen if the adding of cities in The Pacific
(with regard to version 2.4) will have a positive effect in the end.
Ideas that looks very good on paper sometimes will not work at all
de facto. The main reason is of course AI.

"Week 45 1939 - 3 1940:
The campaign in Nat.China continues without significant problems. Nanning, Kweilin, Liuzhou, Chang-Sha and Yenan taken. Elimination of Com.China begins. The US task force outside Kwajalein is destroyed completely. Will the US fleet ever recover?"
MrErik

Probably not.

"Week 4-16, 1940:
In Europe, Germany has now taken Verdun, Lille, Paris, Lyon and Strasbourg. Toulouse and Bordeaux are razed by the Germans"
MrErik

Its hard to see why AI continues to raze Toulouse and Bordeaux, despite
changes made to prevent it.

"Cagliari is captured by the US, while Italy takes Corsica."
MrErik

Cagliari always invaded by US-AI!

"So, Japan now has control over a large number of cities fully boosted for production and we seem to dominate the Pacific. What should be the next goal? Try to invade the US? Or Soviet? Or maybe occupy India? So many options..."
MrErik

I would go for India. It should be important for Japan to keep
pressure on The British Empire.

Thank you for the report and welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Will you add Yugoslavia,Greece,and Denmark-Norway to the allies?
I think this will greatly help the German AI.
 
Bob1475,

Thank you for the reports.

"Germany SID v2.4

I decided to test it out.

At first things went very well, probably because I was very agressive because I knew by tech advantage would disappear over time. On the other hand I was more careful with my units knowing that the dice were loaded against me.

1939
36 - Walked into Danzig after Luftwaffe annihilated the Poles.
37 - Radom
38 - Warsaw taken - Poland is ours!"
Bob1475

Germany on SID-level. This will be very interesting to follow!

"40 We attack Russia - Liepaja taken
41- Vilnius
42 -Riga
43 - Amsterdam taken in the West
Brest-Litvosk in the East
45 - Minsk taken
Russia declares war on Norway - I presume a sub
47 - Rotterdam taken
48 - Litvosk taken
49 - The Hungarians sign a peace agreement with the Russians"
Bob1475

A good start.

With regard to Hungary and the peace agreement:

Its possible Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria as independent Civs
will not work as thought. In such a case I will return to the solution
used in version 2.3.
That is: They will become a part Germany again.

"2 - Disaster! Reds take Vienna - I saw them in the area but I thought they were after Budapest (this was why the Hungarians wanted peace after all). I actually was rooting for the Russians so I could take the city. I have no spare units close enough to pounce - I will get tanks there by in two weeks.

4 - Hungarians take Vienna! I suppose I should cheer for them but I hope the Russians move in so I can take Vienna back."
Bob1475

Yes, that should be the best.


"12 - We take Antwerp.

That is all for now. Tech moving very slow, not sure we can win this although we have gained a lot of lebensraum in the East."
Bob1475

For sure SID-level is very hard.
I think this playtest is very interesting.

Although its still at week 12 1940 one thing is already clear:

Its much harder to play as Germany now if one compare with
version 2.2 (before a number of important changes were made).

This is very positive with regard to the fact there was constant
critique against version 2.2 (and earlier versions) that it was to easy
to play Germany even on SID-level.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Where do you find the patch to keep the AI from razing cities?
 
Aecon said:
In my current playtest ver2.3 USA Sid, My strategy is to allow my allies to carry the brunt of the fight but support them with large quantities of money.

In all my years of playing scenarios (including this one) I have never seen more aggressive play from any AI nation. Perhaps, If one artificially gives the Axis and especially Germany a greater economic potential there may be an increase in agressive response after the fall of France.

I have never seen the Dutch, Chinese, French and especially the British play with the level of aggression as I have in this playtest. The last "week" the chinese army threw 72 units at Irkust and lost but has another stack in excess of 50 going to hit them next "week." The Dutch actually invaded the Japanese homeland before the British or USA! The chinese are still battling to hold onto Warsaw.

I think my strategy of Lend-Lease (giving away just about all my spare money on 50% to 60% of my cities on wealth for the last 100+ weeks has allowed the AI to build units, buy improvements, use spys etc. allowing my strategy of a small USA army to work. Increasing the German Economy by about
1000gp per week should do the trick.

Comments?

Aecon!
Click to expand...

Aecon,

Its an interesting idea.

Looking forward to hear how this playtest turns out.

Rocoteh
 
I think it would work well in the normal version.
Like it was done with Netherlands and Belgium.
If Yugoslavia,Greece,and Denmark-Norway were added to the allies it would solve many problems.
1.It would help help the Germans to expand since the German AI does not seem to declare war on these countries that much.
2.The allies will not declare war on these countries because of the sub bug.
 
It said nothing patched.
And someone said something like you need a no cd version.
I am confused. Can someone help me,I dont know how to make the patch work.
I have C3C 1.22 and I need a cd to play.
 
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