Yet another "help me I'm noob" thread.

[Shadhun]

Hello fanatics.

I'm not a realy experienced civ player, i have played civ 3 for some time and civ 4 vanilla, now i bought BtS and I'm enjoying this awesome game.

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those slackers who just screaming for help without doing any research i have read most of civ 4 strategy articles available here (i dunno how mutch i should thrust them tho since most of them are marked as civ 4 vanilla).

I'm peacemonger type of player, why ? because i think civ is too cool game to just spam some units and zerg the enemy, i also think that their are mutch better games to play if you just want to enjoy military aspect.

Ok so my 1st "challenge" (when i started to play civ 4 again) was to achieve cultural victory with elizabeth/pangea/standart size/3rd difficulty level/default AI number. Shuldn't be so challenging at all huh ? Well i have some trouble . 1st i have problem with locating my cities properly often i end with city that suxx at hammers or at food, i have also problems with pulling 6 cities (and that is quite important for cultural victory, prove me if I'm wrong) my building order at beggining is :

• worker
• settler (chopped)
• worker
  
  
  

I'm trying to get brozne working as fast as i can so i can chop some forests, then i'm trying to get priesthood so i can get oracle -> free metal casting -> forge -> great eng -> pyramids.

I also have a feeling that my map generator hates me (i'm against regenerating maps till you get awesome capital) i'm geting crap places all the time (or i can't just use them properly).

So please post some suggestions, everything is welcome, maybe that will help me to improve my game.

Thanks

 

[Sir Janus]

The easiest way to ensure that you have 3 good cities is to capture 2 neighbouring capitals early on. You will then also have an enormous amount of space to build your other cities in.

If you really do not want to war then I suggest that you settle your early cities quite aggressively. Place them some way from your capital to prevent the enemy claiming those spots then backfill later. This is less likely to work if you are right in the middle of a pangaea where it is more difficult to isolate bits of land with your cultural borders.

 

[Shadhun]

The easiest way to ensure that you have 3 good cities is to capture 2 neighbouring capitals early on. You will then also have an enormous amount of space to build your other cities in.

Yeah but well it's won game already then isn't it ?

I'm seeking for 100% pacefull methods.

Thanks for input tho.

 

[Cam_H]

Shadhun,

Welcome to CivFanatics!

There are some great guides on cultural victories in the War Academy, although BtS throws an extra dimension into the mix with Corporations that allow for further cultural input, making the late-game cultural win a more compelling option.

i have also problems with pulling 6 cities

I'm not sure what you mean by "pulling".

Six cities is a good number because it allows you to build most National Wonders (e.g. you require six Universities in order to build The Oxford University national wonder). Furthermore, six cities allows you to build two 'Cathedrals' (e.g. Islamic Mosques, Taoist Pagodas) for each city provided that each city has built the appropriate religion's Temple. For every three Temples built you can build a 'Cathedral'.

Six cities is also a bad number, because your empire will be small, and you're likely to be less powerful, less advanced, and have access to few resources than larger empires.

Nine cities tend to be an accepted minimum for a standard cultural victory, as you can build 'Cathedrals' in all three of your 'to be Legendary' cities.

If you can be bigger than nine, so much the better. You can still keep some of your cities churning out units or enhancing their commerce haul, while other cities are preoccupied with building Temples and Missionaries. Your larger landmass will increase your chances of owning and/or trading resources and otherwise generally having a better critical mass for victory. You're also more likely to have a larger population which can help with voting (AP or UN) and therefore directing the course of the game.

So ...

You can win a Cultural victory with only three cities, but it's considerably tougher than six, which is tougher than nine or more. You might be fortunate (in one sense) in getting a huge chunk of land that you can fill without the need for invading a neighbour, but this is more the exception than the rule. If you are going 100% peaceful - then at least you need to sure up your defenses ... you might get a few cities to flip to you (be so overwhelmed by your culture that they join your empire) in the latter part of the game (refer. Cultural Conquest).

 

[dragomaster]

when you don't want to start wars it can be hard to build six proper city's. I meen what country in Civ 4 have not been in war or even wage war at some piont?
When you play civ you need to think about what advantage you have in diffrent situations. Or even better what advantage will you reserch yourself thowards. About the starting positions. There can be alot of dirent. some are GP farm some Commerce and some production alike. I like commerce moste becous of bureaucracy civic but all have ther strength. some are good for settlers and worker production outher for unit production and outher for cash. do the approtch that is stongest for you capital and settle the next citys of what your capital lack.

 

[PutCashIn]

Have you varied your opening build ever? or is it always worker/settle/worker?

Im sure given different res's around your starting city different initial builds my prove benefitial, er, 'good.'

Personally I find worker - defence till size 2 - worker - settler - etc etc is pretty cool.

 

[JujuLautre]

Two advices from what you say:
- Placing cities is a key point in civ. Some excellent cities are better than more good cities. For that, food is a key component: Without food, a city cannot grow or work the possible food-deficient tiles in its fat cross. So you shouldn't have problems with food, because you should place your cities according to that.
About production, it's less a problem. Some cities need production: to build wonders or units mostly. They need lots of and should be dedicated to that. Others just don't need as much production. Full cottaged cities especially: they need building to grow (granary, buildings solving health/hapiness), but all the others are optionnals in a way. Sure, it's good to have a library or a market inside usually, but sometimes one or two more cottages are better than the production necessary for these buildings. In most of my games, commerce cities slow-build these kind of buildings, and that's enough.
- Using a cookie-cutter strategy (get worker/settler (chopped)/worker, then the oracle for MC, a forge and the mids) may be nice at the beginning to get you started, but after a while you should avoid it. At first, you will be more efficient playing your strength and your map's/leader's strength. But also, you will learn much more about what works and what does not.

For your first goal, I would suggest you a basic strat for cultural win: culture through commerce, and cathedrals. The idea is to get heavily-cottaged cities, to put all your commerce into cultures, and multiply this cultural output with cathedrals. Since you're financial, this should be efficient. So:
- play your map first: get the required techs to improve and use your land efficiently.
- get a good chunk of land. The idea would be to have nine cities. One cathedral needs 3 temples, so 9 cities means that, for each religion present in your empire, you can possibly have 1 cathedral in each candidate city
- decide early what will be your culture cities. They need the best spots. The capital may be a good contender, especially if you start building wonders in it.
- when you can, prioritize culture techs: theatre, music, religious techs... and also LIBERALISM for free speech, and culture wonders (like sistine chapel)
- get some religions in your cities. Either by founding them, or by acquiring them naturally (open borders!). 3-4 religions is nice. Spam them to all your cities, build temples, and then cathedrals.
- you may stop research at democracy. So you basically need music (for the cathedrals), theatre (for the culture slider), liberalism (for free speech) and democracy (for universal suffrage). Stop research here, get shitloads of money, cash-rush cathedrals and temples, and put all your commerce into culture, watching your commerce-cities gain culture really fast.
- finally, since you're philosophical, run a good GP farm with tons of artists and generate loads of GP. Keep them for the end, don't settle them. They will help you to finish your cities by combing them. This city could be a really good contender for the 3rd cultural city, since it will run artists non-stop. This city is good in general, but especially for you since you're philosophical.

And remember that this is only a basic strategy, and that tons of other solutions exist to win by culture (see "holy sal" and "a gentleman of culture" in the Role Play Challenge in this forum)

 

[Zanttu]

Personally I find worker - defence till size 2 - worker - settler - etc etc is pretty cool.

Personally I find worker - defence till happy cap - worker - settler - worker -worker - settler - worker - worker -settler - worker... better strategy

 

[eewallace]

Elizabeth/pangea/cultural victory should probably work pretty well, but I agree you need the six cities. Basically, unless you get really lucky and can stake out your first 3 cities in a way so as to cut off a portion of the pangea for your future expansion, you probably need to plan on taking out your closest neighbor. If you are on warlord difficulty (I think that is the 3rd level) it probably wouldn't be too difficult to take out a neighbor soon after you get bronze hooked up. Not sure about the amount you want to focus on building wonders early in the game--that may limit you getting your cities in place. (Since Elizabeth doesn't have the industrious trait, I'm not sure you should be worrying about the pyramids so early, unless you have stone.)

My favorite way to use a philosophical leader for a cultural victory is to have each of the 3 culture cities specializing in producing a particular type of great person. Artist, engineer priest works well. I've also done artist, priest, scientist.

Best of luck!

 

[weekend_warrior]

wow i never biuld a worker right off the bat. always a warrior, building workers prevents growth and thats my #1 goal with each new city. I mean with only 1 square being worked, and 90 hammers for workers, even with a 3 shield/food spot thats 30 turns! 30 turns to get one worker and no growth. I perfer to grow to size 3/4, then setler, then worker. let 2nd city grow to 3/4, then worker. but i am some what of a noob.

 

[vicawoo]

That's epic, that's 33+36=69 food for size 3, 33+36+39=108 food for size 4, so you'd already have a worker by then. Also, each unimproved extra tile adds 1 to food/production, so an irrigated corn will have the same worker production as a size 3 city, an irrigated corn and a mine has the production of a size 5 city.

 

[Abegweit]

wow i never biuld a worker right off the bat. always a warrior, building workers prevents growth and thats my #1 goal with each new city. I mean with only 1 square being worked, and 90 hammers for workers, even with a 3 shield/food spot thats 30 turns! 30 turns to get one worker and no growth. I perfer to grow to size 3/4, then setler, then worker. let 2nd city grow to 3/4, then worker. but i am some what of a noob.

Building workers helps growth. Big time. That's why it is usually the best strategy to build one immediately.

I like Zanttu's approach but I'll usually have my second worker, probably chopped, before I get to the happy cap. In the right circumstances, and especially on the lower levels, you can build a wonder instead of military on your way to up to the cap.

In general, you never want to worked unimproved tiles, which is why starting with a worker or two is good practice.

 

[slaze]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=248435&page=1

This is probably the first place you'd want to look as far as strategy articles go.

Don't be too fixed on that worker-settler-worker gig. Sometimes the worker-worker-settler is the right move when you start to assess the whole of you expanding empire, and it might even be quicker settler-wise if chopping's involved.

But as usual, it's always map dependent; you'll soon see this game is much more map dependent and your assessment of the map is key.

And tied in with the exploitation of the worker and using those tiles, as others have noted, sure gets you off and going. The worker pace in the above link may feel a bit steep at times (2 workers, settler, repeat), but finding the balance between worker turns and pop growth covers a big part of the game

 

[PutCashIn]

Yeah sorry, please note that after your initial worker, the elites on CivFanatics usually build defence untill happy cap, but as I usually play on Prince at most (unless im getting my ass handed to me in a GOTM), I can get away with just a warrior and thus, can start spamming more workers/settlers earlier (ie: size 2).

(again, because im only at prince level, any loss in productivity from not growing to happy cap early on can be caught up later, where as at a high difficulty level, it may be nessecary to work the maximum number of improved tiles possible asap in order to remian competitive)

Are there any multiplayers out there? coz multiplayers probably have the 'best' opening stratagies, if you can beat a human with an idea, you should be able to walk all over an AI with the same idea...

 

[InFlux5]

Don't focus so much on bulbing MC. Focus on Workers, Warriors and Settlers only, expanding aggressively toward the AI (as others have said.) This should be very easy for you on Prince, if you focus on it.

Almost always prefer a religion to spread to you both for diplomatic reasons and so you don't have to waste early turns chasing religion. You will usually pick up Taoism, and certainly will if you make that your express goal. For a cultural victory Christianity or, more likely, Islam may be necessary depending on how many you've already got. 3 is the magic number.

And 9 is the magic number of cities for a cultural victory, for one reason: cathedrals. Again, forget the wonder gambits - they are a crutch at this point. Focus on getting land and religions, and maximizing your research. Stay open to an early war if it's obvious you will eventually need a neighbor's land.

Finally, I see no reason to have a predetermined build order at all. I couldn't tell you without seeing my start. Usually the first or second build is a Worker, but it is often a Work Boat. A Warrior is often my first build, especially if I start with a Scout.

wow i never biuld a worker right off the bat. always a warrior, building workers prevents growth and thats my #1 goal with each new city.

A couple of reasons emphasizing growth isn't worth it in the very early turns:

1. Obviously, the tiles that are worked won't be that great. In most cases it will be no more than 3 food/hammers per tile, in whatever combination. Delaying for a Worker means that...

2. Your growth will be accelerated by the Worker (or Work Boat.) This may seem obvious; it's especially true for Imperialistic or Expansionistic civs. But just keep in mind that the Worker will pay dividends beyond the first tile he improves. Each added citizen afterward will be working a better tile.

However, personally I only build my 2nd Worker early (e.g. worker-sett-worker, worker-worker-sett) in some cases. I think it's premature to advise those strategies for all or even most games. My usual course is to send my lone Worker off with the first Settler, because there's usually sufficient improvements in the capital for the short term.

3. Happy caps are relatively low in the early game. (There's a big difference here between Prince and, say, Emperor. But in the grand scheme of things, you usually have a low happy cap in the early game.) Using Slavery, which you will in 95% of games, makes it effectively even lower. So getting that 2nd or 3rd population earlier doesn't help much, when all along you were just planning on getting to 4 and then whipping something for 2, then 1.

But a high-yield tile or two will obviously make this faster, another reason why an early Worker or Work Boat is just about my only rule of thumb.

 

[slaze]

So getting that 2nd or 3rd population earlier doesn't help much, when all along you were just planning on getting to 4 and then whipping something for 2, then 1.

Grassland hills with good food is the optimum early game production. If you find enough of these then there's absolutely no need to be in slavery. But yes, patience needed.

 

[InFlux5]

Grassland hills with good food are pretty rare for my starts. One high-food tile is the norm (i.e. five or six food.)