Yet Another Immortal SE Walkthrough
- Thread starter Gryman
- Start date
I think Space Race might be the path that I choose. I am planning on taking out Shaka and probably either Winston or Ragnar if my power will permit. Running an SE newly conquered cities will quickly contribute. I will likely farm over any cottages, this way I can still run slider low and get +6 science from each additional scientist. Huayna may be tough to keep up with still, he has a lot of cities and a large mass of land.
Domination is a win I will go for if I decide that I really want a challenge towards the end of the game. However, the game is still nowhere near won by any means as anything can happen on Immortal level.
I actually did very little whipping so far in this game. In order to produce chariots I just fired all specialists and worked all the mines in order to crank out approximately 4 chariots every 6 turns from the three early cities. Also, Heliopolis built a barracks then nothing but chariots from the time the horses were hooked up around 2000bc. In a Specialized Economy Production can be turned on by firing specialists in order to work mines. By manually assigning citizens to either mines or scientists I work in spurts of either Science or Production with the appropriate Civics to match.
Most of this strategy I owe to those who have contributed on these forums before me. Earlier examples can be found in the SE thread that Vale has linked on the previous page.
CivSetä;5398298 said:
I am still considering this option but I'm not sure my landmass will be enough. I think I might still need to dig into Kublai before reaching the required land area. The fear is that Huayna might enter that late war as he is quite friendly with Khan. I would certainly require a large Navy should I need some of Kublai's land for a victory. I am still open for suggestions on what to attempt.
I will try to complete and post the next round by the end of the Weekend.
Ecofarm
Deity
Conquest would certainly be the most impressive victory.
vale
Mathematician
I think vassalizing someone at one city is going to be a waste. By eliminating them completely you gain the ability to draft out of the cities you have captured from them(important) and eliminate the "yearn to join the motherland" penalties(not so important). At this point in the game it doesn't take much (or any) work to bring conquered cities up to speed in terms of paying for themselves so the slightly higher maintenance from that one city is not going to be such an issue. Only way I would consider it is if they are offering some key techs up in the capitulation terms.
My thoughts exactly. I am running few merchant Specialists at the moment and I don't think upkeep should be a major problem at this point, especially when I begin building Banks in certain cities and eventually Wall Street in my Shrine city. Shaka has several cities that will yield a high amount of food and should quickly contribute to both science and drafting of Rifles when they become available. If the initial war with Shaka goes well I will likely look to quickly take control of my continent. I'm still not sure it will be enough for a Domination Victory though.
IIRC domination limit goes up when you eliminate someone. In this case, where hitting domination limit conquering only this continent could be possible, that is a thing to consider. Choice is obvious if half of AI land is more than all of AI land - increase in dom limit. Anyone remember how much higher the limit will be when one AI is killed?
CivSetä;5403716 said:
OK, I see where you are coming from with the Vassal's now. Even at this I'm not sure I would have enough Land. At the current moment with 5 rivals remaining I would need 64% of Land Area.
I have completed the next round through 1585ad and will post later this evening.
After several turns of military production I made a short civics switch into Organized Religion in order to complete several needed buildings followed by a switch to Free Religion for research. I first research Steel in order to begin building Cannons as well as Ironworks in Thebes. I then find this deal with Huayna:
Nationalism is the only useful tech that he is williing to trade at the moment. However, it is a very important tech as I can still make a run for the Statue of Liberty. Huayna seems to be my only competition for the wonder as he already has Constitution.
I am still unsure of whether to pursue a Space or Domination Victory but I do know that NOW is the time to finally confront Shaka. I divide my forces into two attacking Armies. This is a view of my plan of attack:
I declare war and march my troops into enemy territory. A view of my Northern Army:
They are Victorious:
I enlist the help of an ally to be sure that I am not stabbed in the back:
For such a cheap price I would be crazy not to bring him in on my side. I imagine he could be just as easily swayed to cross me otherwise.
A view of my Southern Army:
They take the city on the following turn:
I earn my third Great General from their actions and he is sent to Lead a Medic III chariot in the Northern Army. He speeds them along to their next victory:
The Southern Army captures and razes Nodwengu:
A view of the Captured territory:
I decide to negotiate a Cease Fire at this point for two important reasons:
1. My southern army is in enemy territory without adequate cover. The stack is comprised mostly of Trebs which are currently covered by only 2 healthy Macemen. With an attack of collateral weaponry Shaka could easily do a serious amount of damage.
2. I am beginning to feel the effects of War Weariness and Democracy is only 1 turn away. Thebes has a very important build and needs to be operating at full Capacity. Ironworks finishes this same turn and several forests outside the BFC are chopped in order to get a huge jump into the Statue of Liberty:
Not bad, over 1/3 of the 1500
are completed on the first turn. The Wonder would provide a nice boost giving +1 free Specialist in every city.
In 1470 I use a Great Scientist to Lightbulb the last 3 turns of Astronomy. I already built an Academy in my Oxford City and hoped to win the race to Physics for the free GS. Unfortunately, Huayna had already beat me to it. I did find this trade to save a few turns:
Not too bad, 660 gold should help fund research for the next couple of techs. I am attempting to head for Assembly Line in order to get some Factories going as well as draft some Infantry. Huayna holds a monopoly on Economics and will not trade it away. Economics and Corporation are both required for Assembly Line but at least they will open the Free Market Civic as well as Wall Street for construction in my Gold/Jewish Shrine city.
Upon the knowlege of Economics I make the following Civics change:
Neither Huayna or Kublai are in Mercantalism meaning I can access trade routes from both. It is a common mistake that I often see people stay in Mercantalism mid game because they think it is a tech that favors a Specialist Economy. Lucrative trade routes can be much more appealing than +1 free Specialist when leveraged correctly. Besides, my free Specialists were quickly replaced:
to be continued on the next post...
Nationalism is the only useful tech that he is williing to trade at the moment. However, it is a very important tech as I can still make a run for the Statue of Liberty. Huayna seems to be my only competition for the wonder as he already has Constitution.
I am still unsure of whether to pursue a Space or Domination Victory but I do know that NOW is the time to finally confront Shaka. I divide my forces into two attacking Armies. This is a view of my plan of attack:
I declare war and march my troops into enemy territory. A view of my Northern Army:
They are Victorious:
I enlist the help of an ally to be sure that I am not stabbed in the back:
For such a cheap price I would be crazy not to bring him in on my side. I imagine he could be just as easily swayed to cross me otherwise.
A view of my Southern Army:
They take the city on the following turn:
I earn my third Great General from their actions and he is sent to Lead a Medic III chariot in the Northern Army. He speeds them along to their next victory:
The Southern Army captures and razes Nodwengu:
A view of the Captured territory:
I decide to negotiate a Cease Fire at this point for two important reasons:
1. My southern army is in enemy territory without adequate cover. The stack is comprised mostly of Trebs which are currently covered by only 2 healthy Macemen. With an attack of collateral weaponry Shaka could easily do a serious amount of damage.
2. I am beginning to feel the effects of War Weariness and Democracy is only 1 turn away. Thebes has a very important build and needs to be operating at full Capacity. Ironworks finishes this same turn and several forests outside the BFC are chopped in order to get a huge jump into the Statue of Liberty:
Not bad, over 1/3 of the 1500
are completed on the first turn. The Wonder would provide a nice boost giving +1 free Specialist in every city.In 1470 I use a Great Scientist to Lightbulb the last 3 turns of Astronomy. I already built an Academy in my Oxford City and hoped to win the race to Physics for the free GS. Unfortunately, Huayna had already beat me to it. I did find this trade to save a few turns:
Not too bad, 660 gold should help fund research for the next couple of techs. I am attempting to head for Assembly Line in order to get some Factories going as well as draft some Infantry. Huayna holds a monopoly on Economics and will not trade it away. Economics and Corporation are both required for Assembly Line but at least they will open the Free Market Civic as well as Wall Street for construction in my Gold/Jewish Shrine city.
Upon the knowlege of Economics I make the following Civics change:
Neither Huayna or Kublai are in Mercantalism meaning I can access trade routes from both. It is a common mistake that I often see people stay in Mercantalism mid game because they think it is a tech that favors a Specialist Economy. Lucrative trade routes can be much more appealing than +1 free Specialist when leveraged correctly. Besides, my free Specialists were quickly replaced:
to be continued on the next post...
It appears Huayna is getting lonely on his own large, isolated continent. He declares War:
I am always nervous when I hear the war trumpets but luckily this time they are not for me. Ragnar had made peace with Shaka in 1520 but now has the World Superpower landing in his northern territory. I really don't like the idea of having Huayna in my backyard, I hope Ragnar can hold him off.
With both Huayna and Ragnar Tied up I decide to continue my own war. I have reinforced the Southern Army with Cannons and have a similar plan of action:
The Northern Army strikes first and captures Nongoma:
I love when conquered cities come complete with an Academy! This city will run all Scientists and should quickly contribute to the Empire.
The Southern Army positions outside of Ulundi:
The Zulu Capital is captured and also comes complete with an Academy. With all of the flood plains I will likely build the Globe Theatre here ASAP. I earned my fourth Great General of the game:
I decided to settle the General here as the city already had a Military Academy and along with a Dry Dock could produce Level 3 Naval units. I need to start getting some Ships out with Sentry promotions in order to keep an eye on Huayna and Kublai's Naval movements.
Trade with Kublai:
With a growing Empire State Property will certainly be useful. It will also be nice to get a couple of spies ready to send overseas.
Both Northern and Southern Armies converge on the last Zulu City targeted for liberation:
The City falls to my control and I again opt for a Cease Fire as Shaka has nothing valuable to give.
A map of the conquered Land:
Also, notice that Ragnar has held Huayna from taking any Cities on our Continent. They are still at war but not much is happening at the moment. I'm undecided as to helping Ragnar by gifting troops to keep Huayna off our Continent (do I suffer Diplomatic penalties with Huayna for this?), or just attacking Ragnar myself in order to further expand.
Another Trade with Huayna:
Huayna & Kublai:
Wall Street City:
Oxford University City:
Both cities are shown with the sliders favoring them but it is fairly easy to see the effect that Free Market can have on Oxford and Wall Street when built in Coastal Locations. Wall Street is gaining 32 base commerce and Oxford has 41 base commerce from Trade Routes. Call it a Hybrid Economy if you want but it would be silly to not take advantage of Trade Routes with such large SE cities. Commerce in this game comes entirely from Trade Routes, rivers and resources, all cottages are farmed over.
GNP:
Power:
Huayna is becoming a Monster! I believe he has already upgraded to Infantry. I think an invasion of Incan lands is now out of the question.
Relations:
Again, I have a few important decisions to make at this point in the game:
1. Still, the most important decision to make is what victory to go for. I am really leaning towards an early Space Race at this point. Even with my new land I only control 37% of a needed 64%. This will increase when the liberated cities come out of revolt but I still doubt that my continent would be enough. However, an easy Space Race is not a foregone conclusion with the amount of land and power of Huayna, he is teching incredibly fast.
2. Who to War next? Winston is definitely the easier target and his cities are of good quality and would fit into my conquered land quite easily. I am worried that Huayna might beat me to Ragnar if I don't act on him quickly though. He is willing to make peace at the price of Democracy.
3. Technology. I think my best bet is to head for Industrialism in order to reveal aluminum as well as build tanks. I would also like to prioritize plastics and The Hoover Dam in order to save the -2 health from coal plants.
4. Civics switch. Not a big deal being Spiritual but I think I will likely switch into Nationhood, Slavery and State Property at this point. I will likely draft a round of Infantry for my next war. There are also several buildings I would like to whip in my new cities.
The Save:
I am always nervous when I hear the war trumpets but luckily this time they are not for me. Ragnar had made peace with Shaka in 1520 but now has the World Superpower landing in his northern territory. I really don't like the idea of having Huayna in my backyard, I hope Ragnar can hold him off.
With both Huayna and Ragnar Tied up I decide to continue my own war. I have reinforced the Southern Army with Cannons and have a similar plan of action:
The Northern Army strikes first and captures Nongoma:
I love when conquered cities come complete with an Academy! This city will run all Scientists and should quickly contribute to the Empire.
The Southern Army positions outside of Ulundi:
The Zulu Capital is captured and also comes complete with an Academy. With all of the flood plains I will likely build the Globe Theatre here ASAP. I earned my fourth Great General of the game:
I decided to settle the General here as the city already had a Military Academy and along with a Dry Dock could produce Level 3 Naval units. I need to start getting some Ships out with Sentry promotions in order to keep an eye on Huayna and Kublai's Naval movements.
Trade with Kublai:
With a growing Empire State Property will certainly be useful. It will also be nice to get a couple of spies ready to send overseas.
Both Northern and Southern Armies converge on the last Zulu City targeted for liberation:
The City falls to my control and I again opt for a Cease Fire as Shaka has nothing valuable to give.
A map of the conquered Land:
Also, notice that Ragnar has held Huayna from taking any Cities on our Continent. They are still at war but not much is happening at the moment. I'm undecided as to helping Ragnar by gifting troops to keep Huayna off our Continent (do I suffer Diplomatic penalties with Huayna for this?), or just attacking Ragnar myself in order to further expand.
Another Trade with Huayna:
Huayna & Kublai:
Wall Street City:
Oxford University City:
Both cities are shown with the sliders favoring them but it is fairly easy to see the effect that Free Market can have on Oxford and Wall Street when built in Coastal Locations. Wall Street is gaining 32 base commerce and Oxford has 41 base commerce from Trade Routes. Call it a Hybrid Economy if you want but it would be silly to not take advantage of Trade Routes with such large SE cities. Commerce in this game comes entirely from Trade Routes, rivers and resources, all cottages are farmed over.
GNP:
Power:
Huayna is becoming a Monster! I believe he has already upgraded to Infantry. I think an invasion of Incan lands is now out of the question.
Relations:
Again, I have a few important decisions to make at this point in the game:
1. Still, the most important decision to make is what victory to go for. I am really leaning towards an early Space Race at this point. Even with my new land I only control 37% of a needed 64%. This will increase when the liberated cities come out of revolt but I still doubt that my continent would be enough. However, an easy Space Race is not a foregone conclusion with the amount of land and power of Huayna, he is teching incredibly fast.
2. Who to War next? Winston is definitely the easier target and his cities are of good quality and would fit into my conquered land quite easily. I am worried that Huayna might beat me to Ragnar if I don't act on him quickly though. He is willing to make peace at the price of Democracy.
3. Technology. I think my best bet is to head for Industrialism in order to reveal aluminum as well as build tanks. I would also like to prioritize plastics and The Hoover Dam in order to save the -2 health from coal plants.
4. Civics switch. Not a big deal being Spiritual but I think I will likely switch into Nationhood, Slavery and State Property at this point. I will likely draft a round of Infantry for my next war. There are also several buildings I would like to whip in my new cities.
The Save:
1. If you are looking for fast victory I would still go for domination. How about Kublai? If you ship your stack to his island he probably can't do anything abot it. If you can get tanks before him domination should be easy.
2. Winston next, only few cities - short war. Then Ragnar, I don't think that Hyuana can capture any of his cities.
3. Yes industrialism next. But why plastics, build troops instead and game is over soon.
4. State property is obvious. Nationhood and slavery sounds ok for war preparation.
2. Winston next, only few cities - short war. Then Ragnar, I don't think that Hyuana can capture any of his cities.
3. Yes industrialism next. But why plastics, build troops instead and game is over soon.
4. State property is obvious. Nationhood and slavery sounds ok for war preparation.
"It is a common mistake that I often see people stay in It is a common mistake that I often see people stay in Mercantalism mid game because they think it is a tech that favors a Specialist Economy. Lucrative trade routes can be much more appealing than +1 free Specialist when leveraged correctly. "
when more civs abandoned Mercantalism and u can sign OB with other civs without huge diplomatic penalties, and your commerce and science cities are coastal. in this case free market would be better.
but if the foreign relation is complex and OB will badly ruin the diplomatic situation with one powerful civ. and your cities are small and inland then Mercantalism is the way to go.
Am I correct?
when more civs abandoned Mercantalism and u can sign OB with other civs without huge diplomatic penalties, and your commerce and science cities are coastal. in this case free market would be better.
but if the foreign relation is complex and OB will badly ruin the diplomatic situation with one powerful civ. and your cities are small and inland then Mercantalism is the way to go.
Am I correct?
Great playing!I usually play with an SE but only at prince level. My only critism of your game is that memphis was settled to closley to thebes, so the overlap slowed both cities from growing.
Apart from that a great game, especially all those trades you made!
Keep it up ^ _ ^
It is very rare for me to have a game where I don't have Open Borders with at least one Civ. When Playing an SE I will try to build my Wealth and Science cities coastal (not always possible) to take advantage of trade. SE cities are larger and therefore have greater benefits from trade routes. If I can gain more than 6 extra
per city from foreign trade (which is almost always) I will switch to Free Markets as soon as it is available unless I am still running Pacifism or a very high Culture Slider. You are right that this isn't always the way to go but I think many players still underestimate the power of trade routes in the game.Domination is certainly still an option. As you pointed out, my top priorities are Winston and Ragnar. I will need both railroad and combustion in order to build transports and a Modern Navy for an intercontinental invasion. I will assess the situation again after I have control of my own continent. However, my sustainable tech pace is very good right now with over 1300
per turn with 3 cities still in revolt. I am a little interested in how early a Space Race I could get with the Specialist Economy.Thank You
you do realize that 40% of those traderoutes go right into culture wheras mercatilism wouldnt have this effect. You also give huyana access to traderoutes which he likely will have more ability to abuse than you given his higher health and happiness caps in adition to likely running 0 culture...
Yes, I do realize that when the culture slider is up that
is converted to 
(at 40% culture and 60% wealth .6*32 = 19 base 
, much better than 3 3 from the free specialist in my wealth city). I should have switched to Merc. towards the end of my last war (culture slider at 70 %) and probably will if the culture slider goes back up again later. As for Huayna, I doubt that he is benefiting as much as I am from the trade. I have Oxford and Wall Street in my highest netting trade route cities. I doubt the AI has done the same but we will see when I get some spies out.I looked at your latest savegame. Impressive play at Immortal. You are running a very nice example of a SE. Here are a few comments.
I think that Mercantilism is usually a lot better for a SE than Free Trade, especially since it helps the weaker cities. The free specialist helps speed up the next GP in the cities that will produce one. But now you have State Property so that could be better.
You have a lot of plains workshops when plains farms are more productive (after Biology and without State Property) for cities with less than 20 pop assuming you switch to Slavery occasionally. With State Property the plains farm is more productive for city sizes less than size 10. So either convert the workshops to farms for small cities or run State Property
Civics in 1585 AD: Why Bureaucracy? It costs 55 gold and Nationhood would cost zero. State Property is always going to be better than Free Market at this stage of the game, since it saves gold and gives extra food for workshops and watermills. Mercantilism is a possible alternative to State Property. I made the change to Nationhood and State Property in the 1585 savegame and increased gold income from -33 to +97. So that is worth 130 gold / turn
Why research Physics before Railroads? You get a substantial production bonus in several cities as well as much faster moverment with Railroad and it gives something for your workers to do.
I think that Mercantilism is usually a lot better for a SE than Free Trade, especially since it helps the weaker cities. The free specialist helps speed up the next GP in the cities that will produce one. But now you have State Property so that could be better.
You have a lot of plains workshops when plains farms are more productive (after Biology and without State Property) for cities with less than 20 pop assuming you switch to Slavery occasionally. With State Property the plains farm is more productive for city sizes less than size 10. So either convert the workshops to farms for small cities or run State Property
Civics in 1585 AD: Why Bureaucracy? It costs 55 gold and Nationhood would cost zero. State Property is always going to be better than Free Market at this stage of the game, since it saves gold and gives extra food for workshops and watermills. Mercantilism is a possible alternative to State Property. I made the change to Nationhood and State Property in the 1585 savegame and increased gold income from -33 to +97. So that is worth 130 gold / turn
Why research Physics before Railroads? You get a substantial production bonus in several cities as well as much faster moverment with Railroad and it gives something for your workers to do.
Very good assessment of the game UncleJJ, Thank You. I have played the next round and will update shortly.
State Property was just enabled by Communism from a trade on the turn before this save. I made the switch before continuing from this point.
From State Property on I certainly prefer a plains workshop to a farmed plain. Workshop provides 4 1 
compared to 3 1 . Even without State Property considering that if a city is growing into unhealthiness each extra pop is -1 meaning that the farm merely supports itself for 1 . I admittedly whip less than I should as I have tried to keep population and Science high in this game to entertain an early Space Race possibility.
I have run Bureaucracy as Thebes is my primary production city. The +50% were important for building both IronWorks and the Statue of Liberty. I think you are right though and I should have switched to Nationhood after these wonders were completed.
Right again on Research, I did make the switch to prioritize Railroad before the beginning of the next turn. I should have cleaned up and made these changes before posting the save.
Thanks for the input
State Property was just enabled by Communism from a trade on the turn before this save. I made the switch before continuing from this point.
From State Property on I certainly prefer a plains workshop to a farmed plain. Workshop provides 4
1 compared to 3 1 . Even without State Property considering that if a city is growing into unhealthiness each extra pop is -1 meaning that the farm merely supports itself for 1 . I admittedly whip less than I should as I have tried to keep population and Science high in this game to entertain an early Space Race possibility.I have run Bureaucracy as Thebes is my primary production city. The +50%
were important for building both IronWorks and the Statue of Liberty. I think you are right though and I should have switched to Nationhood after these wonders were completed. Right again on Research, I did make the switch to prioritize Railroad before the beginning of the next turn. I should have cleaned up and made these changes before posting the save.
Thanks for the input
Similar threads
