Yet Another Immortal SE Walkthrough
- Thread starter Gryman
- Start date
Are others having this same problem? I'm not sure exactly how to do this, I am using Paint to paste and save the shots. I know I could re-crop each photo but this takes too much time and often leaves them skewed. Hopefully load times will be shorter now that the the thread has reached the second page.
Ecofarm
Deity
open the sceenshot in microsoft (or any) picture manager, resize, save, upload.
Yeah, just about any picture manager will do it, for instance, do you have a printer that came with software (like HP has the ImageZone suite that comes with all printers), that will do it too. It doesn't take too long, if you're lucky, it'll have a "batch edit" option, but that's not necessary.
Ctrl R was actually a command to flip and rotate the image, the attributes menu would just cut a smaller window view but wouldn't reduce the image itself. After playing around I found that by right clicking you are able to stretch/skew proportionately. Thank you for the suggestions though, I guess I was just being lazy to not figure this out on my own earlier.
I have completed the next round of play from 780ad to 1230ad. The round went incredibly well, I have accomplished a major milestone for any SE economy:
I think the picture says it all... I will try and post the turnset later on this evening or tonight.
Melior Traiano
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 220
The level of play in this game has been very impressive indeed. 
Granted, Ramesses is one of the stronger leaders, but even with a strong leader, it takes a good player to get results this good. I rarely run pure SEs in my Immortal attempts, as I use random leaders & depending on the geography too, SEs are not always viable. That said, a well-run SE when the leader/geography are right is very potent.
As far as this actual game, I wonder if Ragnar might not be going after Winnie or Monty. It seems to me that your Power is high enough that Ragnar wouldn't be crazy enough to try an invasion. I guess time will tell. In the event that you are attacked by Ragnar, I'd keep a close eye on Shaka once he makes peace with Winnie, as Shaka is one of those AIs that will backstab you at any time without even blinking & he's Ragnar's co-religionist buddy. Spamming Shaka with missionaries to break up the Buddhist bloc would be a good idea, if you have a city or two that aren't building anything more important.
Granted, Ramesses is one of the stronger leaders, but even with a strong leader, it takes a good player to get results this good. I rarely run pure SEs in my Immortal attempts, as I use random leaders & depending on the geography too, SEs are not always viable. That said, a well-run SE when the leader/geography are right is very potent.As far as this actual game, I wonder if Ragnar might not be going after Winnie or Monty. It seems to me that your Power is high enough that Ragnar wouldn't be crazy enough to try an invasion. I guess time will tell. In the event that you are attacked by Ragnar, I'd keep a close eye on Shaka once he makes peace with Winnie, as Shaka is one of those AIs that will backstab you at any time without even blinking & he's Ragnar's co-religionist buddy. Spamming Shaka with missionaries to break up the Buddhist bloc would be a good idea, if you have a city or two that aren't building anything more important.
I began this round by making a needed Civic Switch:
Nearly all of my scientists were fired in order to work mines during the switch to Bureaucracy, Slavery and Organized Religion. It looks like I will be able to easily afford the extra upkeep by working the Dye tiles around Teotibaucan. I also adopted Judaism as my State Religion once again for the production benefit of Organized Religion. I need to build several key buildings that I had delayed in the name of Science and War. Foremost, as an Industrious Civ Forges recieve a 100% production bonus:
I first whipped a courthouse in Teotibaucan and then started the Forbidden Palace there as soon as it was available. After completion of Forges in my primary cities I began on the 6 universities required for Oxford. When Tlatelulco came out of revolt I whipped a Library first then built a University until I was ready to swap Civics and whipped it on the last turn before the switch (8 turns to completion). It would start Oxford 3 turns later as the other 5 Universities were completed. Secondary cities built Markets and will eventually get Grocers and Banks in the event that I need to run Merchant Specialists for extra Gold.
While some of my builds were finishing I spammed a few Missionaries to Shaka and he converts to the Jewish faith in 860ad. Take that Brennus! This should help to spoil their relations. I did give Brennus Paper for 460 gold in order to feed a research deficit.
Shaka and Churchill have been at war for over 1000 years now and I am worried for my old friend as Shaka is now rolling Trebs up to his cities:
I don't want Shaka gaining any more land and certainly don't want Winston capitulating. I first try demanding Churchill make peace with Shaka in his own best interests. He refuses and gains another -1 demerit for the arrogant demand. I have to cut this deal with Shaka instead:
A heavy price to pay but I will use Theocracy soon and I always like extra gold.
As some of my cities are finishing their required buildings it is time to switch back from Production to Science. I adopt the appropriate Civics:
When each city finishes its current build it switches from mined tiles back to specialists. The current goal is to grab Chemistry as soon as possible. Pacifism will help to quickly generate some needed Great People.
I finally meet a distant civilization:
The good news is that I have a good tech advantage over Kublai. However, I am nervous as the yet unknown civilization has recently completed the University of Sankore. They may be close to reaching liberalism. How have they not found me yet? Notice that I am still lacking compass.
The next turn in 1060ad I generate another Great Scientist in Thebes giving me two in waiting. I decide to grab liberalism which I have waiting a turn from completion:
I select Printing Press in order to be able to directly lightbulb Chemistry with one of my waiting scientists. I begin researching Engineering to open Chemistry and find this deal the next turn:
Argh! I probably could have still gotten steel, why couldn't you have had that last turn Kublai? All those junk techs earned me +4 fair trade Diplomacy right off the bat. After burning a Scientist on Chemistry I had 6 turns remaining.
Time to start stirring up trouble:
With Chemistry on the way a war with Shaka seems to be on the horizon. I want to be sure relations between the two are spoiled to keep Ragnar from stabbing me in the back. Shaka sends a heavy offensive on two seperate cities.
And I finally meet the last Civ:
Sheesh! This guy can be a nightmare in a space race! It looks like I have a good technological edge for the moment.
And 2 turns Later:
Heliopolis begins turning out Grenadiers every 2-3 turns while non science secondary cities begin producing Trebs.
For those who still doubt that SE has Superior Non Whipping Production Capabilities:
You can see where the Production Skyrockets around 800ad when I began my round of building, I only whipped cities coming out of revolt. Production can be turned on as if flipping a switch. More Food = More Hammers.
to be continued on the next post...
Nearly all of my scientists were fired in order to work mines during the switch to Bureaucracy, Slavery and Organized Religion. It looks like I will be able to easily afford the extra upkeep by working the Dye tiles around Teotibaucan. I also adopted Judaism as my State Religion once again for the production benefit of Organized Religion. I need to build several key buildings that I had delayed in the name of Science and War. Foremost, as an Industrious Civ Forges recieve a 100% production bonus:
I first whipped a courthouse in Teotibaucan and then started the Forbidden Palace there as soon as it was available. After completion of Forges in my primary cities I began on the 6 universities required for Oxford. When Tlatelulco came out of revolt I whipped a Library first then built a University until I was ready to swap Civics and whipped it on the last turn before the switch (8 turns to completion). It would start Oxford 3 turns later as the other 5 Universities were completed. Secondary cities built Markets and will eventually get Grocers and Banks in the event that I need to run Merchant Specialists for extra Gold.
While some of my builds were finishing I spammed a few Missionaries to Shaka and he converts to the Jewish faith in 860ad. Take that Brennus! This should help to spoil their relations. I did give Brennus Paper for 460 gold in order to feed a research deficit.
Shaka and Churchill have been at war for over 1000 years now and I am worried for my old friend as Shaka is now rolling Trebs up to his cities:
I don't want Shaka gaining any more land and certainly don't want Winston capitulating. I first try demanding Churchill make peace with Shaka in his own best interests. He refuses and gains another -1 demerit for the arrogant demand. I have to cut this deal with Shaka instead:
A heavy price to pay but I will use Theocracy soon and I always like extra gold.
As some of my cities are finishing their required buildings it is time to switch back from Production to Science. I adopt the appropriate Civics:
When each city finishes its current build it switches from mined tiles back to specialists. The current goal is to grab Chemistry as soon as possible. Pacifism will help to quickly generate some needed Great People.
I finally meet a distant civilization:
The good news is that I have a good tech advantage over Kublai. However, I am nervous as the yet unknown civilization has recently completed the University of Sankore. They may be close to reaching liberalism. How have they not found me yet? Notice that I am still lacking compass.
The next turn in 1060ad I generate another Great Scientist in Thebes giving me two in waiting. I decide to grab liberalism which I have waiting a turn from completion:
I select Printing Press in order to be able to directly lightbulb Chemistry with one of my waiting scientists. I begin researching Engineering to open Chemistry and find this deal the next turn:
Argh! I probably could have still gotten steel, why couldn't you have had that last turn Kublai? All those junk techs earned me +4 fair trade Diplomacy right off the bat. After burning a Scientist on Chemistry I had 6 turns remaining.
Time to start stirring up trouble:
With Chemistry on the way a war with Shaka seems to be on the horizon. I want to be sure relations between the two are spoiled to keep Ragnar from stabbing me in the back. Shaka sends a heavy offensive on two seperate cities.
And I finally meet the last Civ:
Sheesh! This guy can be a nightmare in a space race! It looks like I have a good technological edge for the moment.
And 2 turns Later:
Heliopolis begins turning out Grenadiers every 2-3 turns while non science secondary cities begin producing Trebs.
For those who still doubt that SE has Superior Non Whipping Production Capabilities:
You can see where the Production Skyrockets around 800ad when I began my round of building, I only whipped cities coming out of revolt. Production can be turned on as if flipping a switch. More Food = More Hammers.
to be continued on the next post...
I've been playing for a while and am extremely confused about this post. I usually play on Prince and go for Domination victories with scores in the 25000-45000 range, so i'm decent. Mostly what i want to know is how you're getting Gunpowder with 14 turns with your research bar on 0%. I think i'm just completely misunderstanding the strategy. Could someone please help. Thanks
He is running an SE or Specialist Economy and has built the Pyramids and is running the Representation civic. The large number of specialists he has give beakers even though the research slider is at 0%. He has few if any cottages (you should check one of his savegames) and so commerce is not important to his economy.
Thanks for answering the first question UncleJJ, I actually haven't built a single cottage and am relying mainly on Scientists. A minimal amount of commerce does come from 2 worked gold mines, 3 worked Dye tiles and trade routes when I do run the research slider at a deficit.
No, you are not able to use whipped/chopped
while building wealth they will simply be saved for the next unit/building. The game converts excessive overflows of into 
in much the same way as missed wonders are converted to . Civ only allows as many to overflow as the amount of the current build. In the example I applied 304 to a chariot (25 ). Out of the 304, 25 were used to build the chariot, 16*200% = 32 (HE modified) were overflowed to the next build and the remaining 247 were converted into treasury as a way of compensating for the lost . Beacause I was gaining +100% production from the Heroic Epic I was converting to at a rate of 2-1. Building wealth converts at a rate of 1-1.
Vale offers a more in depth explanation of the process in this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218229
No, you are not able to use whipped/chopped
while building wealth they will simply be saved for the next unit/building. The game converts excessive overflows of into in much the same way as missed wonders are converted to . Civ only allows as many to overflow as the amount of the current build. In the example I applied 304 to a chariot (25 ). Out of the 304, 25 were used to build the chariot, 16*200% = 32 (HE modified) were overflowed to the next build and the remaining 247 were converted into treasury as a way of compensating for the lost . Beacause I was gaining +100% production from the Heroic Epic I was converting to at a rate of 2-1. Building wealth converts at a rate of 1-1. Vale offers a more in depth explanation of the process in this thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218229
Thanks guys. The only other question i have after that is does anyone know where to find a post on an in depth description on how to successfully run an SE game? I think i get the general idea from this (by the way, an extremely impressive game), but would like to know the details, such as how to start and what type of stuff you're supposed to build. Thanks!
vale
Mathematician
A Beginner's Guide to the Specialist Economy (SE) sounds like it might be what you are looking for.
Also if you want a more detailed examination of hammer overflow and the ensuing gold overflow, you can check out the hammer overflow article in my signature.
Also if you want a more detailed examination of hammer overflow and the ensuing gold overflow, you can check out the hammer overflow article in my signature.
Ecofarm
Deity
I think building a wonder that you have no intention to finish is an exploit (disgustingly so when this is done in multiple cities). I also consider the overflow chop+whip to be an exploit. I wonder if BTS will fix it. I was under the impression that there is no limit to overflow, but obviously this is a complicated issue. One could do the same thing as above, except put the hammers into a wonder that you do not have the resource for if all hammers carried. The problem seems to be converting hammers to unadjusted levels between builds. This would require checking to see if a 1/2 reduction in hammers was required due to previous build.
Anyway, kudos. This exploit is truely impressive.
Anyway, kudos. This exploit is truely impressive.
As I have mentioned earlier, due to the fact that I have built the Pyramids I am able to focus on the bottom of the tech tree. I do not need to research Constitution as I am already able to utilize the Representation Civic. Of course I realize that the Statue of Liberty is along the top half but I think it is much more valuable to bee line for Biology. While SOL will provide a free specialist in each city +1 food on every farm will allow me to support many more additional specialists than 1 a city.
I begin the round by burning my remaining Great Scientist towards Scientific Method. I am not worried about obsoleting the Great Library as it has already done it's job in helping me to Liberalism.
Huayna comes with a demand which I give in to in hopes of opening trade relations. He is now willing to trade technologies due to a +1 you gave us help and +4 our trade relations have been fair and forthright. He may be a valuable trading partner down the road.
Shaka manages to capture one of Ragnar's cities:
This same turn it seems that Ragnar enlisted some help in the war and Montezuma declares on Shaka. He really is a mentally unstable character! Shaka could easily destroy him and take both of his cities. I have no choice but to beat Shaka to the prize. Fortunately, each city bordering Monty has a decent offensive stack:
I move enough troops into position and declare War on Monty:
Yes, the stack does defeat the lone longbow and I keep the city.
Thebes is ready to produce another Great Person before the Great Library becomes obsolete:
and as I had hoped:
Because I lack the knowlege of Compass the Scientists top preference is to Lightbulb towards Biology. He knocks 9 turns off of the research time but there are still 20 turns remaining. Compliments of Pacifism and Specialist Economy my National Epic city is ready to produce another Great Person on the next turn:
Of course this did take a lot of planning. I also intentionally let Thebes Create the first GP in order to switch to producing Military Units with a settled General and Bureaucracy production.
The next Great Person:
I have really gotten lucky in receiving 5 consecutive Great Scientists. He takes another 9 turns off of Biology.
Giving in to Huayna's demand is already proving beneficial:
I make the following Civic Switch Immediately:
Mercantalism is a no brainer as it gives me a free specialist in every city. I also no longer need Pacifism as lightbulbing is starting to lose its effect at this point. I adopt Theocracy in order to start aggressively cranking out promoted military to tackle Shaka.
I barely beat Shaka to Monties Capital:
I sacrifice a couple of catapults and easily capture the city. That is the end of Monty. Ragnar makes peace with Shaka in 1210.
Paper is sold to Churchill for 140 gold to run the research slider. I also make two trades to gain more gold along with the techs that I had skipped in order to Lightbulb Biology:
And as seen before:
I think I am at a point where I need to start thinking about what victory condition to go for. Cultural is certainly out of the question and I think Diplomatic would also be a long shot. I think that Space would likely be the easiest win to go for. Domination is also still a possibility. Anyone have thoughts on which one to go for? I might even entertain the possibility of taking it straight to Huayna and attempting Conquest. It is always difficult to wage an intercontinental war with such a powerhouse though.
A map of the other continent:
The Save:
I begin the round by burning my remaining Great Scientist towards Scientific Method. I am not worried about obsoleting the Great Library as it has already done it's job in helping me to Liberalism.
Huayna comes with a demand which I give in to in hopes of opening trade relations. He is now willing to trade technologies due to a +1 you gave us help and +4 our trade relations have been fair and forthright. He may be a valuable trading partner down the road.
Shaka manages to capture one of Ragnar's cities:
This same turn it seems that Ragnar enlisted some help in the war and Montezuma declares on Shaka. He really is a mentally unstable character! Shaka could easily destroy him and take both of his cities. I have no choice but to beat Shaka to the prize. Fortunately, each city bordering Monty has a decent offensive stack:
I move enough troops into position and declare War on Monty:
Yes, the stack does defeat the lone longbow and I keep the city.
Thebes is ready to produce another Great Person before the Great Library becomes obsolete:
and as I had hoped:
Because I lack the knowlege of Compass the Scientists top preference is to Lightbulb towards Biology. He knocks 9 turns off of the research time but there are still 20 turns remaining. Compliments of Pacifism and Specialist Economy my National Epic city is ready to produce another Great Person on the next turn:
Of course this did take a lot of planning. I also intentionally let Thebes Create the first GP in order to switch to producing Military Units with a settled General and Bureaucracy production.
The next Great Person:
I have really gotten lucky in receiving 5 consecutive Great Scientists. He takes another 9 turns off of Biology.
Giving in to Huayna's demand is already proving beneficial:
I make the following Civic Switch Immediately:
Mercantalism is a no brainer as it gives me a free specialist in every city. I also no longer need Pacifism as lightbulbing is starting to lose its effect at this point. I adopt Theocracy in order to start aggressively cranking out promoted military to tackle Shaka.
I barely beat Shaka to Monties Capital:
I sacrifice a couple of catapults and easily capture the city. That is the end of Monty. Ragnar makes peace with Shaka in 1210.
Paper is sold to Churchill for 140 gold to run the research slider. I also make two trades to gain more gold along with the techs that I had skipped in order to Lightbulb Biology:
And as seen before:
I think I am at a point where I need to start thinking about what victory condition to go for. Cultural is certainly out of the question and I think Diplomatic would also be a long shot. I think that Space would likely be the easiest win to go for. Domination is also still a possibility. Anyone have thoughts on which one to go for? I might even entertain the possibility of taking it straight to Huayna and attempting Conquest. It is always difficult to wage an intercontinental war with such a powerhouse though.
A map of the other continent:
The Save:
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