?Your solution for the U.S. education system?

Urederra said:
Last thingy. Split the system at the age of 14 or so. The ones who pass the (real selective) exam can go to colleges and for the ones who don't pass promote trade schools where they can become mechanists, carpenters, painters, etc.

That's a good idea, but what usually happens is that the trade schools end up with people that feel rejected and could not care less about getting an education, starting a vicious circle where people don't want to go that way because it has an ill reputation and thus only people contributing to that ill reputation will go there and so on.
 
But at least you remove the vicious circle from college, so the ones who are able and willing to study can do it without interference. And of coures, who said trade schools don't have final exams? You have to learn your diploma over there as well.

BTW, I always feel that the french education system was very good, the one they had in the past, I don't know how is it right now. I heard that everybody how pass college is acepted at the university, so classes ar very crowded in the first year, but there is only a number of people who can pass to the second year, so they made the selection at the first year of university. If you don't pass, you can repeat first year to try to pass the cut again.
 
Urederra said:
BTW, I always feel that the french education system was very good, the one they had in the past, I don't know how is it right now. I heard that everybody how pass college is acepted at the university, so classes ar very crowded in the first year, but there is only a number of people who can pass to the second year, so they made the selection at the first year of university. If you don't pass, you can repeat first year to try to pass the cut again.

Well, a lot of people will tell you that the French system is not what it used to be, but I guess that's part of French character... I would say it is quite good. It is also VERY elitist, especially after high-school.

The first-year cut still exist, in public universities: then you have a whole separate system of engineering and business schools that requires you to go to two years of preparatory classes, and take an exam, and basically choose your school according to your ranking after that exam (very elitist, as I said, especially when there is a selection simply to go into these preparatory classes :lol: ).

Then of course you have ENA, science-po, Normale Sup, IUT...
The French system is complicated after High School :)
 
I think people assume vo-tech classes and college should be mutually exclusive for some reason. It's very helpful to have taken vo-tech classes in high school when you go to college because it really, really helps your income when you work during the summer or even during school.

Would you rather be flipping burgers for minimum wage or building houses for 3-4x more?
 
About the Trade School, Votech stuff

The government allready has a great program (well it depends who they have running it)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_Corps
At Job Corps you live in a dorm (ussually have too share a roomwith 2 orther people ... at 7 ft by 7ft room at that)
for people 16 - 24 It's not that bad when you have a decent company running it
...there's a reason the one's like a milltary camp get higher marks than ones like Sierra Nevada.
 
Abolish the State Education system.
 
Give more opportunities to charter schools. Put those under the jurisdiction of something not controlled by the teacher's union. Break the teacher's union monopoly on the education system. Introduce comprehensive voucher systems. Make the public education system dpendent on income taxes as a whole, not property taxes. Increase funding for vocational programs. Make it easier to fire incompetent teachers in the state system*.

* I've suffered under a certain History teacher of mine, who seems to do little to actually teach, instead he chats wityh his wife all class and /or goes on the Internet.
 
@ Shane - the thing you need to keep in mind about College in CA is that the State subsidizes education. I was looking at the CC I went to just out of highschool, and they charge $26/unit. I don't remember what Johnson County Community College (KS) charges, but when I was there last it was something like $60/unit.

So, yeah, in CA CC is cheap. Unfortunately not so in other parts of the country.
 
Missouri helps out big time if you acheive some cut-off level in your GPA in high school, something like 3.0 or so. At least that is how I think it works. Not sure as they didn't have this when I graduated high school.
 
Last thingy. Split the system at the age of 14 or so. The ones who pass the (real selective) exam can go to colleges and for the ones who don't pass promote trade schools where they can become mechanists, carpenters, painters, etc.
I just hate seeing ideas like these. Let me tell you something. Abilities in school do not translate to abilities in real life. Just because you didn't pass some test doesn't mean you won't be as good an accountant as someone else.

This is what's wrong with the education. They teach memorization. All you do is memorize facts and methods of solving problems, and the ones who succeed are the ones with naturally good memories. This is not education. Education should teach critical thinking, problem solving, logic, and practical applicatons. Now I know that the students have to know certain facts. But the most effective way to teach them is not to have a teacher talk at them and write on the board for an hour and then move on. It's to teach them how to process and use the information they get to do something useful, so in college and in the real world when they have to digest large quantities of information they know how to deal with it, not how to memorize it. In this way people with true intelligence will succeed in school.

And this is from someone coming out of a real nice public school education.
 
VRWCAgent said:
There is no authorization in the US Constitution for any federal monies to be spent on education. Every dime that is violates the Constitution. Department of Education - violation.

Maybe you should sue the federal government.
 
Turner said:
@ Shane - the thing you need to keep in mind about College in CA is that the State subsidizes education. I was looking at the CC I went to just out of highschool, and they charge $26/unit. I don't remember what Johnson County Community College (KS) charges, but when I was there last it was something like $60/unit.

My ignorance lies not with what California does, but what other states don't do. :)

But, yeah, the state subsidizes ALL college education to varying degrees. For example, I went to a private 4 year college and each year I got a "Cal grant" of several thousand dollars.

Its weird that the CA HS system is on the weak side, but our public system of higher education is unrivaled.
 
The most obvious solution - privatisation , and giving the school the authority over the child and parents they need ( basically , giving them the power to tell the child and parents to go to hell if the kid doesn't meet the schools' standards ) . If that does not work ( or , more likely , is politically unacceptable ) , then there is an alternative , which I detail below .






























































There is an experiment being tried in my city , which tries to introduce a radically new type of education , which will still allow people to enjoy the benefits of a normal education , but with far fewer hassles . The purpose is to improve the current education system , re-indigenise education , and to provide a model to the rest of the country to follow later - to be a lighthouse school for the rest of the nation .

This is the website : Keshav Vidhyapeeth .

This is the website of the research and development wing of the school ( yes , the school has an R&D wing meant to create , test , and improve new methods of education ) : Anusandhan Parishad . I implore everyone to read the R&D website - it is small , and it presents the ideals of the school quite nicely .

The school site does not contain much information , but I can provide some .

They have a system whereby , in the early years of school life ( say , upto fifth class ) the entire focus is on education by activities - learning by doing . From the next year on , the child is slowly taught how to learn on his own , and the teacher ceases to teach as conventionally thought , but is there to guide the student whenever he faces any difficulties .

The only examinations these students take are the standardised tests ( with no preparation specifcally geared towards them , let us keep in mind ) , and till now they have shown very good results in these examinations .

How , then , is the child evaulated , if there is no testing at all during his school years ? The evaluation of a child's performance is fourfold ( with all four aspects given equal importance ) . The evaluation is monthly ( or quarterly , I forget which ) . At the end of the year , the evaluations throughout the year are considered , and whether the child has learnt enough to go the next class is decided by his record .

Now for the four evaulations .

The first , and most conventional , is the teacher's evaluation of the child . This is mostly based on how far the teacher perceives the child's learning to have progressed , and on the child's classroom behaviour .

The second is the evaluation of the child by himself . He himself reports what he has learnt , what he has not , what he likes , what he dislikes , and how his aptitudes and attitudes have changed since the last evaluation .

The third evaluation is the evaulation of the child by his parents . This is a general evaulation dealing with how his parents perceive he studies , how his attitude to study is , and how hardworking he is at home .

The fourth evaluation , introduced when children are more mature ( in later classes ) , is the evaluation of a child by his peers .






The school does not believe in punishments - at all . No child is ever punished . How , then , is discipline maintained in the school - how is authority enforced , you may ask ?

The answer is that it isn't . The only discipline is self-discipline . When a child enters the school , he sees that everyone is well-behaved , with no external force being used to keep anybody in line . As time passes , the child imitates what everyone else is doing ( as children do ) , and learns to control himself without anybody forcing him to . It is virtuous cycle of school culture . The children this system turns out are far more well-adjusted in later adult life , because they do not need some external authority to keep them in check .

To give the students experience of real life , all school functions are organised by students themselves . All organistional work - even that which is usually done by teachers and the administration in other places - is here left to students . The seniors take the majority of the responsibility .

As an example - during the annual school function , it was decided that to make the school function inclusive of the entire school , everyone should participate , each person contributing what he thought he was best at .

There was a play they had staged - the Indian epic , the Ramayana . The seniors were in charge of organisation , and the juniors were actors in the play . To allow everyone a chance , the cast changed in every scene . In every scene , there was a different Rama , a different Sita , a different Ravana , and a different Hanuman . Those who could not act worked behind the scenes . They even had special effects - they created the illusion that Hanuman was flying , by using a hidden platform , and did it convincingly .

And this was only one item , only one play . There were many more .

The school aims to bring about an all-round development of body , mind , and spirit . It seems to have succeeded so far . It is not only a remedy for the US school system , but also for the Indian one , which is too obsessed with tests and tests and even more tests . In the school's own words , it focuses on :

School's Website said:
Maharshi pathanjali has classified these virtues as five treasures (Kosh),


1. Annamay Kosh (Treasure of healthy body)
2. Pranmay Kosh (Inner self)
3. Manomay kosh (Good social behaviour behavior)
4. Vigyanmay Kosh (Treasure or Brains)
5. Anandmay kosh (The treasure of Soul)

This fourfold evaluation can effectively silence problematic parents , because only one fourth of the evaluation actually comes from the authorities , and by including them in evaluation their own child . This inclusion of the child in the evaluation process lessens the stigma of failing a class , so that those who have not learnt can stay back of their own choice .

Another thing that includes the parents in the child's education is the the class teacher of each class drops in for a casual chat with every parent every month ( or every quarter ) . This chat is not meant to be a progress report , nor it is meant to complain or praise the child . It is a simple casual chat where anything may come up , including the child's education . It fosters a feeling of community and inclusiveness within parents regarding the school .

Another thing - no school bags , no homework !

There is , however , one word of caution . The school has to be rooted in the culture of the place it is founded in , which modern political correctness may not allow . Without this foundation , the ideals it stands for are difficult to realise . For instance , this school is rooted in the ancient Indian concept of a gurukul , whose role it tries to fulfil . The school's ethos in one of Hindu openness and curiosity , and the ideals it tries to attain to are Hindu ideals ( self-discipline , hard work , self-learning , having a guru ( teacher ) to help one out in times of difficulty , self-reliance ( students manage everything themselves ) , all-round development of mind , body , and spirit , etc. ) , even though there is no role of religion in school life at all .

Similarly , a school like this in the USA will have to try to live up to Christian ideals , whatever they may be , in order to fit in with and contribute constructively to the society in which it is located , but without involving the Christian religion , because any involvement of religion inevitably leads to alienation of those not of that religion . That is why a Muslim would be perfectly happy in Keshav Vidhyapeeth , but might be a bit uncomfortable in a convent school .




EDIT : I like the post I have crafted so much that I'm going to make a new thread out of it !
 
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