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You're not in Krasnodar any more Dorothy...

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by TsarAndreas, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. TsarAndreas

    TsarAndreas Chieftain

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    Hi all,

    New to DoC (think I downloaded v.1.14) and I love it. It's very different to RFC and you really have to immerse yourself in the nation in a much deeper and more satisfying way.

    That said, I tried Russia for the first time today. Definitely not the same as RFC. First time out, I sent my settlers escorted with either a swordsman or longbowman to found Kiev, Novgorod and Kem(?) in the north to block off the Western Europeans whilst the horseman went scouting, only for the Vikings to settle between Ryazan and Novgorod, and then declare war on me shortly after. That, combined with constant and strong barbarian attacks, plus the arrival of the Mongols, convinced me that this was not the simple game I'd come to know and love.

    My more cautious second and third attempts saw Kyiv founded before I arrived, and my fourth and fifth attempts where I did manage to found Kiev saw my longbowman and horse archer decimated by attacks from 8 horse archers (2 groups of 4 one after the other).

    My question is, are all Russia games this troublesome at the start? I like the fact that I have to work hard to survive before I get the chance to become a time zone spanning behemoth, but I wonder if I'm being completely inept in my opening in these new conditions. It took me a few attempts to get China past the Mongol speed bump, but it was very satisfying once I did.

    Any hints and tips would be gratefully received.

    Regards,

    TsarAndreas
     
  2. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    I always found one city away from the barbarian spawns and two down south. By placing my cavalry between them I can stop the majority of any barbarian invasion the instant they appear.
     
  3. Finbros

    Finbros Chieftain

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    I usually found Kherson (1W from iron, suboptimal, placing on iron will be better for early play), Gomel, and St.Peterburg at 1E from cows (if I correctly remember map).

    It blocks spawn of Kiev and Polish/Viking attempts to make mess in Baltics with Tallinn/Riga or something else.

    To finally secure your pretty core/historical:
    - for blocking of Viking setllers at all, I'm settle between Onega and Ladoga lakes (unnamed core tile 1S from Onega, 1E from Ladoga).
    - be prepared for Qazan spawn. It's not a threat, but if roaming units of European civs capture it before you, it will be a nuisance.
    - before Ottomans spawn, send settler with decent guard in Northern Caucasus (I prefer Makhachkala plot), and, after Ottomans spawn and flip (in 1310, afair) settle city here to prevent their spread to Volga region with all these pesky cities of Derbent, Astrakhan or even Ufa. Do not sign OB with them of course.
     
  4. TsarAndreas

    TsarAndreas Chieftain

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    Thanks for the tips guys.

    I've tried again, taking in some lessons from above and trying to get into the historical mindset of the Russians. So far this is what I've

    Lesson 1: Don't settle for settling's sake

    I settled Rjazan, Kiev and Vologda. These are three good cities, and all I can respectably defend (except Vologda which only had one horseman unit). I kept the last settler behind until I could safely settle Astrakhan after the Silk appears and it makes sense as a worthwhile city. Settling between the two rivers under the Iron feels a little too close to the capital.

    Lesson 2: Quantity has a quality of its own

    After feeling vulnerable to attack from the barbarians and the Mongols, I produced Walls as the first item in my first three cities, followed by archers. Lots of archers. This helped massively to increase the security within my empire, especially once upgraded to Longbowmen.

    Lesson 3: Take your time

    I like the way the game develops. You're in a hostile neighbourhood, so you build troops for defence. You end up building Knights to fight the Mongols, which you can use to conquer Kazan (and retake Astrakhan after you settled it too soon!), and you can use those same knights to escort your settlers into Siberia. I don't think I'm on track to settle 7 cities in time though - I'm used to only having to settle 3! I've noticed that there have been a few improvements in Western Siberia that make it more attractive to settle.


    I do have a question about the Mongols though. What exactly triggers the invasion? The first time it happened to me, it was in 1200AD, just after they spawned, so I assumed it would be an automatic thing. The next time I got past 1200AD, nothing happened at all, and when I met them much later they were amicable. The third time, my scout met them in
    Mongolia and they instantly declared war. What's the trigger? Is it random?
     
  5. Finbros

    Finbros Chieftain

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    Don't hide inside walls, Mongol UP makes them useless. Archers seems attractive, but Lancer producing is better, and with 5XP from buildings they can get Skirmish with +25% dmg to Light Cavalry (both Horse Archers and Keshiks).

    First contact. War declaration and event troops is instant.

    ..you can hope that Mongols collapse before first contact, though. After their respawn event wars don't trigger anymore.

    Afair, settling in the Ryazan makes 1 UHV (railroad to _Moscow_ ) impossible
    Also, Russian core can supply 6-7 cities with 10-15+ pop, why limit yourself?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    1SDAN and Tigranes like this.
  6. TsarAndreas

    TsarAndreas Chieftain

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    Thanks Finbros

    Yep. Discovered that after building a Castle in Ryazan and then having my city defences reduced to 0% out of nothing.


    Ok - so if first contact is what does it, I'll avoid sending a scout out East.

    Next attempt, I'll go for Guilds before Engineering. And start churning out the horse archers and upgrade to Knights as soon as.

    This is good to know. Will settle in place from now on.

    In terms of filling the core, I guess it's a question of timing. Once I've repulsed the Mongols, my focus has switched to populating Siberia. Think I'll try and squeeze in a few more settlers.

    Also - barbarians in western Siberia! Found out about them the hard way.
     
  7. Finbros

    Finbros Chieftain

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    Uzbek/Kazakh isn't a huge problem (mostly they try to attack Samarkand and Merv, and at all they are just Keshiks - and after Mongols we surely have trained Skimish Lancers.

    And Sibirs start spawn only after the founding of first Sibearian city. You can just send all your settlers/guards to tiles of planned cities and settle all 7 of them at 1695.
     
  8. TsarAndreas

    TsarAndreas Chieftain

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    So me settling in Siberia starts the spawn of barbarians? That's good to know.

    Also, Skirmish Lancers? I'm only playing v1.14, it's just regular old strength 10 Knights for me at this point. With Barracks, Stables and lots of experience against the Mongols and Barbs, they are normally strong enough to handle most opposition one on one. It's more the volume of barbarians that creates a problem in the early stages of Siberian development.

    With that said, when are Cossacks supposed to come into their own? I haven't found the time to research them before getting to Railroad - that's actually a surprisingly tight target! Missed it getting the Trans-Siberian Railway by one turn in my last game! I think I need to double down on workers - never seem to have enough to develop the core and link up the Siberian colonies.
     
  9. Finbros

    Finbros Chieftain

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    Lancers is 1.15 Knights, and Skirmish is a promotion for light cavalry attack bonus.


    Espionage is wonderful, and after spawn of Prussians you can just steal all their techs. Build St.Basil's Cathedral, send all your money to espionage, steal all of their starting money, spread Russian culture in former Polish city from captured Warsaw and you will get their sciences at 1800 AD (and, very probably, Konigsberg will flip to you)
     
  10. Royal Tenenbaum

    Royal Tenenbaum Pacific Phytopathologist

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    You win Best Thread Name award
     
    DarkLunaPhantom and 1SDAN like this.
  11. Logoncal

    Logoncal Chieftain

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    What is best? Skirmish Lancers, Longbows or Xbows aginst mongolia?

    Also, how do i deal with early barbarians? They overwhelm so fast.
     
  12. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    I was able to do it on 600 AD start. Flipped one Horse Archer on turn 3. Found Kiev on turn 4, started on Walls. Moscow, Vologda, Petersburg -- Archers. 4 units in Kiev, 3 in Moskva. On turn 5 attacked Cumans with 4 units in open field but lost 3 units with superior odds! Reload. This time rushed Walls on Turn 5 and wait for them to attack.Turn 6 -- Cumans attack. Lost Crossbow which killed 1 attacker. But Horse Archers withstood and finished off withdrawn Steppemen. Moskva got attacked in 2 turns with better results for me. As soon as Horse is Pastured switched to Horse Archers to replenish the losses. No new cities until Kazan's spawn.

    Compared to Barbs Mongols were a joke. 12 Units in 3 different directions right before Mongolia's habitual collapse date ( early 1500s). I had 2 times more Mounted troops. Lancers and Horse Archers. Crossbows are too slow. Have to intercept those Keshiks! Avoid contact with Mongols early on, don't scout in their direction (not even Byzantium's Asia Minor). They collapsed before I killed them all. :ar15::faint:
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  13. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Not anymore, Keshiks are Heavy Cav now.

    I never understand why people stubbornly play v 1.4 which is almost 2 years old by now! Leoreth works with German quality and his current developmental versions seldomly contain bugs or crashes to desktop. You don't even need to understand how git works, just download the zipfile directly from git.
     
  14. Logoncal

    Logoncal Chieftain

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    Probably because the new tech tree sucks. Also, really? They're heavy cav now? They werent for me when i was using the SVN version one week ago before switching to Second Release Candidate v1.5 which still has them as Light Cav
     
  15. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    No tech tree is a gem! At first I was like you -- resisting any change. It took me 3-4 months of playing to understand the beauty of it. You just need to approach with an open mind and simply play in different situations and eras. Civs like Japan are the best to get a feeling of how things work now.

    And yes, sorry, Keshiks are Light Cav but replacing Lancers which are Heavy. My bad.
     
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  16. Logoncal

    Logoncal Chieftain

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    Man, i played the Vox Populi mod in Civ V for hundreds of hours to know that this kind of tech tree is ****. Yeah, cool, no more beelinings. Awesome
    Watch the AI get ahead of you because they get bonuses and you will just collapse from maintenance.

    Idk, i just dont like to have to waste 30 turns on 3 buildings that do what one building in the Vanilla civ do. And in DoC, where every turn is precious, this hurts.
     
  17. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Not a Civ5 fan and BTS and especially DoC are governed by somewhat different logic. You see, in vanila BTS at some point in late game I run out of buildings to build well before Spaceship. So I end up building stupid research or units. It all ends in a big brawl, nuking and getting to spaceship parts. Here each civ has limited historical lifetime. Yes every turn is precious, that's why you only need techs you really need for victory. It is not the same nuke and fly to space experience. More techs =more ways to catch up with run away AI and more different ways to get there! Try Congo to get what I am saying (after Slave generation is fixed).
     
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  18. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    Civ4ScreenShot0027.JPG

    Even with Siberian colonization it is possible to be more advance as Brits as early as 1700s.

    Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG

    By the time you are in late 1800s your production is whooping 4 times your strongest rival. The big mistake here is neglecting military. Even without wars you need to constantly build an Army so civs vassalize to you peacefully :undecide:
     
  19. Logoncal

    Logoncal Chieftain

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    DO I SEE COMMUNIST AMERICA AND COMMUNIST CANADA?

     
  20. Logoncal

    Logoncal Chieftain

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    Everytime i try to play as Russia, i give up at the beggining when my units lose to a barbarian even though the odds to lose are at 3.4% chance
     

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