Yugoslav Civilization

[General_Putnik]

why instead of young and old tito you dont put say


tito


and aleksandar


you could have the tri color without the star and then you can have a tito (communist, populist, etc)


vs

aleksandar (monarch, aristocratic etc )

it would definitly make sense to include the 1st yugoslavia in there


for great people you could include a lot more people then just the ones that are listed at the moment

 

[Anima Croatorum]

if you include first yugoslavia then exclude non-serbs please.

the only place i wish to see a karadjordjevic head is on a pike.

 

[General_Putnik]

if you include first yugoslavia then exclude non-serbs please.

the only place i wish to see a karadjordjevic head is on a pike.

karadjordje was not part of Yugoslavia - he was a Serb leader


now on the other hand Kralj Alexandar was a Yugoslav leader



btw whats wrong with Karadhodje, he didnt do anything to strike your feathers

 

[Anima Croatorum]

karadjordje was not part of Yugoslavia - he was a Serb leader


now on the other hand Kralj Alexandar was a Yugoslav leader



btw whats wrong with Karadhodje, he didnt do anything to strike your feathers

I did not mention Karađorđe but the Karađorđević dynasty, more specific, any monarch or regent their spawned between 1918 and 1941. None of them can represent Yugoslavia. The only Yugoslavia that stood true to its name was Titos Yugoslavia. It was born with him and died with him.

 

[General_Putnik]

I did not mention Karađorđe but the Karađorđević dynasty, more specific, any monarch or regent their spawned between 1918 and 1941. None of them can represent Yugoslavia. The only Yugoslavia that stood true to its name was Titos Yugoslavia. It was born with him and died with him.

why? Yugoslavia was created by those people. If it wasnt for King Alexander then Yugoslavia would never be there.


I am sorry to say - but this is something the majority of croatians wanted - in fact the king if anything was your proponent


the cvetkovic macek understanding gave croatia more land then ever before

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Where did you dig up that fairytale. We were forced into Yugoslavia or we would have lost the coast to Italians and it would have suffered the same fate as Istria did until WWII ended.

The ink had not dried before there were revolts in Croatia.

As for Cvetkovic-Macek agreement, thats hardly the largest territory Croatia held, and in this case it is not the size that matters.

Karadjordjevic were nothing more than puppets of Pašić and Serb radicals. And thats all they'll ever be.

 

[General_Putnik]

Where did you dig up that fairytale. We were forced into Yugoslavia or we would have lost the coast to Italians and it would have suffered the same fate as Istria did until WWII ended.

so it was preferable to be equals with serbs but that was forced? who forced them? the serbs certainly didnt - it was their choice. The croatians decided to join. Even before the cvetkovic-mace agreement there was an opportunity and the croatians were certainly offered to be independent - but that was not good enough for them...since musolini would have kicked your ass the day after you were on your own.

The ink had not dried before there were revolts in Croatia.

why? what was back about that agreement? Your leaders coulnt manage to go their own way.

As for Cvetkovic-Macek agreement, thats hardly the largest territory Croatia held, and in this case it is not the size that matters.

NDH doesnt count, or would you like to included that as a valid Croatian state?

Karadjordjevic were nothing more than puppets of Pašić and Serb radicals. And thats all they'll ever be.

You obviously have no idea what you are talkig about Pasic was against Yugoslavia and was retired because of that. At least that Yugoslavia was not based on the genocide committed by the ustashe and the attrocities committed by the NDH and the fascist quieslings.

 

[dinamo_18]

Lets not destroy this thread by arguing about politics. This bashing can go back and forth for days. One guy will say it was like this, then other guy will say no it was like this, and so on. Lets keep it about the MOD. I think the only leaders that should be in this MOD are Tito and anyone else great from 1980-1991. The red star should stay on the flag. Thats when Yugoslavia was great, with Tito as its leader.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

We had more than a millenia of statehood before Yugoslavia was ever born. Plenty of rather large Croatias before that.

As for all other mumbo jumbo the fact that remains is that whatever south slavic solidarity there was before 1918, by 1919 Karadjordjevic had managed to erase it.

The Ustasha were a reflection of Karadjordjevic politics. Without the oppression between 1918 and 1941 they could have never gained momentum.

And that Yugoslavia was pretty much about what the Chetnik movement was after it collapsed. Ustasha wannabes with far more limited projection power.

So Titos Yugoslavia was based on Ustasha and NDH... that just keeps taking more and more cake as it goes.

 

[ryo-n-gats]

Oh, man. Can't believe. SFRY pwnz, again. We're indestructible [at least in Civ lol]

Excellent idea. I always wanted to make Serbia mod for CIV3, but i didn't have enough knowledge and time. This is great, all together again, hehe, litle spooky...

srdjann, can i ask you for help in modding with Serbian civilization?

I haven't read whole thread, but had to post. After reading I'll post again.

/me np Zabranjeno Pusenje - Od istorijskog avnoja.mp3

 

[Partizanac]

I am building a huge Serbain scenario on map of Yugoslavia
1.Balkan Wars - Ancient times
2.WWI - Medieval times
3.WWII - Industrial times
4.Fall of Yugoslavia - Modern times

But i need LH's 3D and Units, I can use any help I can get!!!
(Wana help PM me!!)

Ps. I am building it in English and Serbian Language

 

[General_Putnik]

So Titos Yugoslavia was based on Ustasha and NDH... that just keeps taking more and more cake as it goes.

i never said that - i said that is it riddiculous to exclude the 1st Yugoslavia out of this Civ. If you want to build an accurate civ...plz do so

 

[ryo-n-gats]

Oky, like I said great job.
Now I want to play it, hehe but there is no link...

So few suggestions

About Stipe Mesic
His speech in Croatian parlament wich included sentence "My asignement is over (SFR)Yugoslavia is dead." [translation: "Moj zadatak je zavrsen, Jugoslavije vise nema"] pretty much discredits him as a SFRY leader. My suggestion is that it should be Ante Markovic.
You can remove one of the Tito's but it's your choice.

Also i think that name is quite unapropriate. It should be SFRY. But it would be stupid cause it's name of the state, not the nation. But whitout a Kingdom of Yugoslavia included into "Yugoslavian" nation, it is real shame. Cause whole idea of Yugoslavia is created in that period.
So do not know how this problem can be solved

About politics.
Serbia didn't force anyone to join Kingdom of Yugoslavia. If you closely inspect all legal documents from that period [and believe me i did, cause i study Law School], and know about all events that happend in that period you will know that Croatia actually used it so it can later fulfil its idea of independent state. If it didn't enter the Yugoslavia in that moment, it would be a question would it ever gain its independence. [But I'll stop here cause there is no IFs and WOULDs in law and history]. Plain and simple, Croatia entered Kingdom of Yugoslavia freely, but it saw it just as an instrument to get independence from Hungary, and didn't see its future in Yugoslavia. Just saw it like some kind of temporary solution.
I think that i explained some things here. And please believe me, i do not have any reason to say something that is incorrect. I studied creation of Yugoslavia, and have read many sources [books, magazin articles, essays, etc], so i think that i know history a litle bit more than average person.

Also you mentioned chetniks in bad sense. Chetniks were Royal Kings Army, not Ustashee wannabes. That Chetniks were allied-oriented, vitness American President medal for bravery [it's highest rank in USA], which was given to Draza Mihajlovic [It was given to his daughter] when communist regime was finaly burried. [And by Chetniks I do not refer to bunch of drunk idiots fooling around on Ravna Gora every year]. And by law of rehabilitation, all historical lies are thrown away.
Croats always forget it. Ustashe were Fasicst colaborators, founders of Jasenovac and Gradiska camps of death, not to mention camp for kids in Caprag. Denying now that more than 1.000.000 Serbs was killed, by erasing nationalities from victim graves in Jasenovac is so lame, that I do not even want to comment that.

if you include first yugoslavia then exclude non-serbs please.

the only place i wish to see a karadjordjevic head is on a pike.

And why did you say this shauvinist comment? What does it mean? Please do not be hater.

then exclude non-serbs please.

I was especially insulted by this part. Maybe you should find out how many Serbs died defending Yugoslavia [I am now refering to WW2], and how many Croats. I would say that ratio is 10:1, if not more. While Ustashe were busy with burrying of evidence of genoside, 20.000 Serbian kids [14-18-...years old] died on Srem front fighting with Elite German SS troops, or you would maybe prefer more that Nacists stayed in Croatia?

I'm done with this argue.

EDIT: I second Putniks post.

@Partizan Mogu da pomognem, ali reci precizno sta

 

[Partizanac]

Bravo ryo-n-gats I couldn't put it better my self!

 

[dinamo_18]

There can be more than 2 leaders. One can be Tito one Ante Markovic and one form 1st Yugoslavia. How about the coward King Petar who left the country when nazis invaded. Make him also a leader. I think that all these leaders would be usefull to foreigners who play as Yugoslavia but dont know the history or the leaders. To me it doesnt matter if there are 20 different leaders I will still always play as Tito. JOSIP BROZ DOBAR SKROZ

 

[General_Putnik]

There can be more than 2 leaders. One can be Tito one Ante Markovic and one form 1st Yugoslavia. How about the coward King Petar who left the country when nazis invaded. Make him also a leader. I think that all these leaders would be usefull to foreigners who play as Yugoslavia but dont know the history or the leaders. To me it doesnt matter if there are 20 different leaders I will still always play as Tito. JOSIP BROZ DOBAR SKROZ

Having King Petar would be useful, but he was a serbian kind, i belive you are talking about Petar II - the boy who was not of age when he became king though the coup d'etat.

You know, if i were king i would leave too after seein Nazis greeeted in Zagreb with flowers. Tito was quiet dispointed when he saw what his fellow Croats were doing.

Funny how communist led "ustanak" was always in places where Serbs lived like Uzice and Drvar.

But politics asside i am not sure how many leaders one can have


if we are talking about extremes then on the right we have King Aleksandar Karadjordjeciv (monarchist, capitalist) and on the Left we have Tito (communist aka "crvena banda" ) and in the middle we could have somebody like Ante Markovic or for that Matter Milka Planinic.


There is also the 3rd Yugoslavia under Milosevic and Kostunica but i think for the arguments sake we can skip those two.

I would go with the Markovic (and we are not talking about Mirjana), Aleksandar I and Tito.


the 3 represent the 3 factions we have.


I would say Tito is combative and good politician but totalitarian and supressive (aka dictator)


same thing with Aleksandar except that he would be monarchist and capitalist.


Markovic on the other hand would be a good economist but weak war and culturee leader. (representing the era that he did)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------


The interesting part would be if we could have special units based on the leader you select.

Tito would have his partisans and Aleksandar would have Gendarmerie or perhaps WWI artilery and on the economic end perhaps the different systems would be reflected in ******** economy for tito yet with fast road and terrain building (javni rad/ akcije ) while Aleksandar would have a flourishing agriculture and capitalist system.


Ante markovic...i am not sure on him but i was thinking of perhaps TO units (Territorjalna odrana) and perhaps A 3rd world specialist (reflecting Yugos trade with the non alligned pact which could be a wonder )

--------------------------------------------------




Markovic would have his

 

[dinamo_18]

You know, if i were king i would leave too after seein Nazis greeeted in Zagreb with flowers. Tito was quiet dispointed when he saw what his fellow Croats were doing.

You dont leave you fight. Remember the Ustasa's were not the most populer political party in Croatia. The offer was first offered to Vlatko Macek but he refused because he did not want anythign with facism, so then Pavelic steped up for the position. But the Ustasa's were not the most populer party in Croatia.

Funny how communist led "ustanak" was always in places where Serbs lived like Uzice and Drvar.

I hope you are not saying that Serbs are responsible for the resistance in Yugoslavia. There were members from all 6 sides which includes Serbia.

But politics asside i am not sure how many leaders one can have

I've seen some civs that have 4 leaders. I dont know if that many is really necesary.

There is also the 3rd Yugoslavia under Milosevic and Kostunica but i think for the arguments sake we can skip those two.

Right because it was really more Serbia & Montenegro. And lets not talk about the all the blood spilled during those days.

I would go with the Markovic (and we are not talking about Mirjana), Aleksandar I and Tito.

Good. I hope Srdjan is reading this because he is the only one that can change the leaders. Its him MOD.

I would say Tito is combative and good politician but totalitarian and supressive (aka dictator)

Supressive is such an ugly word. He wasnt like Stalin or any other Russian. He gave us freedom. We were very lucky that Tito kicked the Soviets out after WW2, because if they had stayed I dont think any of us would have any nostalgia towards our great Yugoslavia.

same thing with Aleksandar except that he would be monarchist and capitalist.

I dont know anything about this guy, so if you say that thats correct than go with it.

Markovic on the other hand would be a good economist but weak war and culturee leader. (representing the era that he did)

Sound good.

The interesting part would be if we could have special units based on the leader you select.

That would be nice. I tried creating new units but it seems so complicated. I wanted to create many new units for Yugoslavia that werent supposed to be UU, just regular units with variety.

 

[DaBull]

Hey people how about world wonders, could one make one of those.

Cause I was like thinkin something like "Road of Brotherhood and Unity" (Cesta bratstva i jedinstva). Or some other cultural project.

Now wouldn't that be nice!

 

[dinamo_18]

Hey people how about world wonders, could one make one of those.

Cause I was like thinkin something like "Road of Brotherhood and Unity" (Cesta bratstva i jedinstva). Or some other cultural project.

Now wouldn't that be nice!

Yes that would be very nice. Unfortunately I dont know how to make wonders. Maybe someone who does know will tkae interest.

Cesta bratstva i jedinstva sounds good. How about another one; Sutjeska. Could add some military unit experience. How about a Nikola Tesla project. Could increase the nations science research.

 

[Shqype]

Now this civilization could be rightfully classified as a "historic" civ