Zimmerman Not guilty

Angela Corey (?) just watched a jury acquit Z of murder and she called him a murderer. Can she be sued for slander?



According to Z he walked back thru the T and M came at him from behind asking why he was following. The GF said M told her the creepy ass cracker was back and she then hears M ask Z why he was following. The two corroborate the beginning of the confrontation and M was the aggressor. Now M stood there near that T while Z was walking back and forth and went unnoticed - that means he was hiding and it also explains why Z had the impression M came out of bushes. He probably did, it was raining and there were bushes along walls under over hangs.



I'd call that expediency, but I haven't used GZ and TM, one letter is enough

priorities

According to Z's "walking back through the T" leaves the confrontation several yards from the actual "fight" location. Z's account defies logic. Someone was pushed down too soon to allow for a separate location as the initial confrontation.

Saying that Z was already heading down the south section of the sidewalk makes more sense. Where Z came from is irrelevant, but makes for an interesting excuse for not waiting at the truck.
 
He lost sight of M and headed for the next street to the east for an address, there were no addresses down the south stem of the T.

Remember, M also lost sight of Z so the latter would not have turned to the south because the view is unimpeded and someone at the T could easily see him. That means Z walked into and thru the T and out of M's sight for a minute or so. At that point Z agreed with the dispatcher to meet the cops back at his truck because M had disappeared and Z no longer knew what address would be appropriate.

And thats more evidence M was hiding, Z walked thru the T and saw no one there, or anyone walking down the south stem of the T, so he continued on toward the next street for an address closer to M's last known location and direction.
 
A tiring analogy, to be sure.

The very act of walking down the street can be done in a manner that may cause someone to have reasonable suspicion that you might be up to something nefarious. In this case, Zimmerman was correct. This was a gated community and this kid did not belong in it. That is hardly a significant legal infraction, but nonetheless, he was doing something wrong by virtue of the fact that he was even on that street.

M was a guest of a resident of the gated community. He had every right to be there.
 
Actually, if you followed. Zimmerman exited his vehicle and pursued Martin on foot carrying his gun despite the 911 dispatcher telling him not too. Pursuing another civilian on foot armed with a gun? Is that legal in Florida also?

Rofl, you make it sound like he hunted him down gun in hand. There is no evidence to suggest that.

But to answer your question, unless said person is threatening someone with said gun, I know of no law that disallows merely following someone, carrying a holstered weapon or not.

Btw, M had a cell phone as well. Why didn't he hang up with his girlfriend and simply call 911 to report some armed person following him that night? Wouldn't that be an expected action of someone being concerned that they are being followed by a questionable character?
 
He lost sight of M and headed for the next street to the east for an address, there were no addresses down the south stem of the T.

Remember, M also lost sight of Z so the latter would not have turned to the south because the view is unimpeded and someone at the T could easily see him. That means Z walked into and thru the T and out of M's sight for a minute or so. At that point Z agreed with the dispatcher to meet the cops back at his truck because M had disappeared and Z no longer knew what address would be appropriate.

And thats more evidence M was hiding, Z walked thru the T and saw no one there, or anyone walking down the south stem of the T, so he continued on toward the next street for an address closer to M's last known location and direction.

The timeline and recorded call is not that complicated and hardly allows that assumption. It is even doubtful that Z reached the T, much less went through it, until after the call was finished. The timeline does not fit all that back and forth.

The only address the dispatcher asked for was the one his truck was parked in front of. M was allegedly hiding. From Z's account he was meandering around, not really going in a straight line to where he was staying. That seems to go well with an 18 and 4 minute cell phone conversation he was having.

Rofl, you make it sound like he hunted him down gun in hand. There is no evidence to suggest that.

But to answer your question, unless said person is threatening someone with said gun, I know of no law that disallows merely following someone, carrying a holstered weapon or not.

Btw, M had a cell phone as well. Why didn't he hang up with his girlfriend and simply call 911 to report some armed person following him that night? Wouldn't that be an expected action of someone being concerned that they are being followed by a questionable character?

M knew that an armed person was following him?
 
You guys are the one who keep mentioning an ARMED man was following him. Make up your mind, is it relevant or not?
 
Btw, M had a cell phone as well. Why didn't he hang up with his girlfriend and simply call 911 to report some armed person following him that night? Wouldn't that be an expected action of someone being concerned that they are being followed by a questionable character?

No, because if an armed stalker might just shoot me first if he thought I was calling for help. If I knew an armed guy was stalking me, I either run away quickly(and hope to not get shot) or hide and try to take him out first. I am not going to stand where I'm completely vulnerable and call 911. Martin obviously knew someone was tailing/stalking him for no reason, he vanished so he could get the first move. And yes, I consider getting out of your car and following someone on foot armed as "stalking" because you have an intended target to follow with no reasonable explanation as why you are following this person, especially after the 911 dispatcher told you not to do so.
 
You guys are the one who keep mentioning an ARMED man was following him. Make up your mind, is it relevant or not?

No, because if an armed stalker might just shoot me first if he thought I was calling for help. If I knew an armed guy was stalking me, I either run away quickly(and hope to not get shot) or hide and try to take him out first. I am not going to stand where I'm completely vulnerable and call 911. Martin obviously knew someone was tailing/stalking him for no reason, he vanished so he could get the first move. And yes, I consider getting out of your car and following someone on foot armed as "stalking" because you have an intended target to follow with no reasonable explanation as why you are following this person, especially after the 911 dispatcher told you not to do so.

I don't know too many people who would willingly attack an armed person even if it was by surprise.

That Z was armed is relevant. That M may have had no clue Z was armed is also relevant.

The dispatcher told him to stop running after Z was already running. The larger issue was where he was at that time. I think that he went back to his truck. Most believe Z and that he was on the other side of the T looking for street signs that he was asked about after he started back to check for the number where his truck was parked.
 
Quite a preposterous amount of misinformation in this thread.

- Zimmerman was following Martin. This act is questionable for a number of reasons, but not illegal at all, especially as he's a member of neighborhood watch. The prosecution produced 0 evidence ever that Zimmerman had intent to shoot at this time, and without it 2nd degree murder is impossible already.

- While being followed, Martin turned around an engaged in the initial actual contact with Zimmerman. A witness for the *prosecution* testified to this.

- Zimmerman had significant physical injury while Martin's only injury was the gunshot wound. It is unlikely that Zimmerman's wounds were inflicted after the shooting.

- The forensic expert testified that the bullet's penetration and Martin's body were consistent with Zimmerman's story. This was a very strong piece of evidence, one of the strongest in the case! Half or more of the people posting in this thread could kill or permanently maim someone via ground and pound.

In other words:

1. Zimmerman did something pretty stupid, but not strictly illegal.
2. Zimmerman was the victim of *assault* and *battery*, serious felony crimes. Claiming Martin did nothing is asinine; he was followed, yes, but he chose to engage and assault Zimmerman.
3. In response to being assaulted and claiming that he saw no indication the assault would cease, Zimmerman shot Martin. Once, which says something also.

There are some other minor pieces to this, such as Martin having small amounts of marijuana in his body etc, but are virtually non-issue compared to the above.

Now, there are some things we can't know. We don't know if Zimmerman incited Martin to attack him via more than simply following him. We can never know Zimmerman's state of mind for certain at the time, nor Martin's.

What we DO know is that the evidence suggests PLENTY of doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of even manslaughter, since the self-defense aspect put forth was so strong. Someone who has been struck multiple times and is mounted is in serious trouble. They stop those situations in UFC for a reason; any serious time spent being struck out of that position is life threatening. Zimmerman claimed Martin actually threatened his life; we can't know if that is true. We do know he was being assaulted in a dangerous fashion however...one that could reasonably be construed as life threatening.

Lacking any evidence against that point, the prosecution had no case at all and a "not guilty" result was the only responsible conclusion based on the law.

Following someone is not a crime. Assault and battery are crimes. It is that, not the hoodie (freaking ignorant media bullcrap), that justified the self defense position.

M was a guest of a resident of the gated community. He had every right to be there.

We're talking about a dark night, with Martin staying pretty close to houses. As it was raining, that is a perfectly reasonable course of action, but to an observer could also be mistaken. Regardless, attacking Zimmerman was even more senseless than following Martin, and more importantly far more dangerous and illegal.
 
Quite a preposterous amount of ignorance in this thread..
You are certainly right about that. But it appears that you are doing your share to contribute at least some of it yourself:

- While being followed, Martin turned around an engaged in the initial actual contact with Zimmerman. A witness for the *prosecution* testified to this.
Source please.

- Zimmerman had significant physical injury...
That is certainly not how the prosecution characterized it, nor did their expert witnesses.

Half or more of the people posting in this thread could kill or permanently maim someone via ground and pound.
Yet Martin clearly didn't do so. Now why is that?

It is also something which you can defend against, especially after having over a year of MMA training.

The entire encounter only lasted a bit over 40 seconds and at least some of it occurred while they were on their feet, which is another lie that Zimmerman told.

2. Zimmerman was the victim of *assault* and *battery*, serious felony crimes.
Again, source please. What makes you think it wasn't self-defense?

Claiming Martin did nothing is asinine;
Who has claimed Martin "did nothing"? I must have missed it with all these posts.

...he chose to engage and assault Zimmerman...
Again, source?

...Once, which says something also...
What does shooting someone "once" at point blank range in the heart, holstering his gun, then getting on top of him instead of trying to give him CPR or call for an ambulance, while even lying he didn't think he shot Martin "say"?

There are some other minor pieces to this, such as Martin having small amounts of marijuana in his body etc, but are virtually non-issue compared to the above.
What does that possibly have to do with anything?

Following someone is not a crime.
No it's not. But in this particular case, I think it is quite safe to say the way Zimmerman racially profiled and chased after him in direct contradiction to what the dispatcher told him to do is just incredibly stupid. That he then spewed numerous lies to try to cover up how stupid it really was. Wouldn't you agree?
 
it was relevant to the jury, she said the dispatcher "egged" Z on

I dont have sound :(

I need to go back and look at those transcripts, I dont remember seeing that tidbit

edit: all I see is the dispatcher telling Z to speak up if M does anything, not keep an eye on him as in following.

I watched the video of Zs walk through and he said the dispatcher asked him to observe M after the clubhouse and that required driving down the road a bit.

I noticed he took the dets east of the T and then remembered the dispatcher told him to stop following as he pointed back toward the T. If M did head down the stem of the T and Z went east then he didn't follow him.

Another thing the juror said was Z's stuff was closer to the T, a flashlight and something else.
 
No, because if an armed stalker might just shoot me first if he thought I was calling for help.

This is just ridiculous. Martin had plenty of time to call 911 if he truly thought he was in danger because Zimmerman had lost him and couldn't find him. Even Martins girlfriend testified that she told Martin to just run away. He didn't.

If I knew an armed guy was stalking me, I either run away quickly(and hope to not get shot) or hide and try to take him out first.

'Try and take him out first'? With what? I mean really, this isn't Hollywood, it's real life and in real life that's simply not how things work. I mean that's another complete fantasy you are creating here in order to justify Martin attacking Zimmerman for simply being followed.

The correct answer is you run. Run like hell, or run to the nearest house and start asking for help.

I am not going to stand where I'm completely vulnerable and call 911.

The miracle of cell phone technology is that it is mobile. You seem to forget the fact that while Martin was running all around the place to avoid Zimmerman he was on the phone with his girlfriend. Again, your point is simply ridiculous.

Martin obviously knew someone was tailing/stalking him for no reason, he vanished so he could get the first move.

And that was a fatal decision on his part to attack an armed man. That is what makes it self-defense on Zimmerman's part.

And yes, I consider getting out of your car and following someone on foot armed as "stalking" because you have an intended target to follow with no reasonable explanation as why you are following this person, especially after the 911 dispatcher told you not to do so.

What you believe doesn't matter, it's what the law defines as stalking. That ain't it.

And he had a reasonable explanation: he was part of the Neighborhood Watch.

Quite a preposterous amount of misinformation in this thread.

- Zimmerman was following Martin. This act is questionable for a number of reasons, but not illegal at all, especially as he's a member of neighborhood watch. The prosecution produced 0 evidence ever that Zimmerman had intent to shoot at this time, and without it 2nd degree murder is impossible already.

- While being followed, Martin turned around an engaged in the initial actual contact with Zimmerman. A witness for the *prosecution* testified to this.

- Zimmerman had significant physical injury while Martin's only injury was the gunshot wound. It is unlikely that Zimmerman's wounds were inflicted after the shooting.

- The forensic expert testified that the bullet's penetration and Martin's body were consistent with Zimmerman's story. This was a very strong piece of evidence, one of the strongest in the case! Half or more of the people posting in this thread could kill or permanently maim someone via ground and pound.

In other words:

1. Zimmerman did something pretty stupid, but not strictly illegal.
2. Zimmerman was the victim of *assault* and *battery*, serious felony crimes. Claiming Martin did nothing is asinine; he was followed, yes, but he chose to engage and assault Zimmerman.
3. In response to being assaulted and claiming that he saw no indication the assault would cease, Zimmerman shot Martin. Once, which says something also.

There are some other minor pieces to this, such as Martin having small amounts of marijuana in his body etc, but are virtually non-issue compared to the above.

Now, there are some things we can't know. We don't know if Zimmerman incited Martin to attack him via more than simply following him. We can never know Zimmerman's state of mind for certain at the time, nor Martin's.

What we DO know is that the evidence suggests PLENTY of doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of even manslaughter, since the self-defense aspect put forth was so strong. Someone who has been struck multiple times and is mounted is in serious trouble. They stop those situations in UFC for a reason; any serious time spent being struck out of that position is life threatening. Zimmerman claimed Martin actually threatened his life; we can't know if that is true. We do know he was being assaulted in a dangerous fashion however...one that could reasonably be construed as life threatening.

Lacking any evidence against that point, the prosecution had no case at all and a "not guilty" result was the only responsible conclusion based on the law.

Following someone is not a crime. Assault and battery are crimes. It is that, not the hoodie (freaking ignorant media bullcrap), that justified the self defense position.

We're talking about a dark night, with Martin staying pretty close to houses. As it was raining, that is a perfectly reasonable course of action, but to an observer could also be mistaken. Regardless, attacking Zimmerman was even more senseless than following Martin, and more importantly far more dangerous and illegal.

This is an accurate and reasonable post. Nice job!
 
it was relevant to the jury, she said the dispatcher "egged" Z on
Then that's the first indication at least one juror was not very bright and didn't even bother to listen to the police call in question, instead of believing the gibberish fed to her by Mark O'Mara during his closing arguments.

When Zimmerman started making it sound like Martin might even attack him while he was still in his truck by claiming Martin had something in his hands, the dispatcher stated "let me know if he does anything, OK" meaning let him know if Martin started physically attacking or directly threatening him.

The dispatcher made it quite clear that Zimmerman shouldn't follow him. That is hardly "egging him on".
 
by the time the dispatcher made that clear, Z was already walking into the T

and he didn't follow M, didn't even know where he went other than south of the T

M was standing nearby hidden from sight, like bushes under an over hang out of the rain.

Z went east and returned 1-2 minutes later and thats when M ambushed him

now you said the fight took place ~10 yds south of the T and that didn't jive with Z getting punched at the T. The juror said they found his stuff closer to the T, do you know if thats correct? His walk through wasn't exactly convincing, I was under the impression (probably too much msnbc) he was knocked backwards but in the video he stumbled forward trying to push M away until he finally fell and M got on top.
 
Then that's the first indication at least one juror was terribly stupid and didn't even bother to listen to the police call in question, instead of believing the gibberish fed to her by Mark O'Mara during his closing arguments.

When Zimmerman started making it sound like Martin might even attack him while he was still in his truck by claiming Martin had something in his hands, the dispatcher stated "let me know if he does anything, OK" meaning let him know if Martin started physically attacking or directly threatening him.

The dispatcher made it quite clear that Zimmerman shouldn't follow him. That is hardly "egging him on".

The egging him on was a possible misunderstanding. The dispatcher asked "which way is he running". Zimmerman could have taken that to mean he should find out where exactly Martin did go.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
 
by the time the dispatcher made that clear, Z was already walking into the T

and he didn't follow M, didn't even know where he went other than south of the T

M was standing nearby hidden from sight, like bushes under an over hang out of the rain.

Z went east and returned 1-2 minutes later and thats when M ambushed him
That's nice sheer speculation. Too bad it isn't actually factually accurate other than where Zimmerman was when he ended his call with the dispatcher.

The egging him on was a possible misunderstanding. The dispatcher asked "which way is he running". Zimmerman could have taken that to mean he should find out where exactly Martin did go.
That's far more than a "misunderstanding". It is a blatant attempt to deceive the jury, which is exactly what O'Mara did during his closing arguments. It is just unfortunate this juror didn't bother to listen to the police call and hear for herself what was actually stated, and why.
 
Back
Top Bottom