ZPNESVI Discussion Thread (Nesse)

The Alya hopes other elites will not let exiles step on the land of Nesse. Any exiles caught ofכ their island will be executed.

Alya also wishes the moderator and senate to see the importance in destroying the advancement of the exiles. Already they take trade from us and at the same time assassinate our people.

Alya calls for an assault on exile island to destroy them and return them to chaos.
 
Seconded.

The Banner thanks the Alya for allowing us to help us all by catching smugglers.
 
They have the protection of the Drezden so long as they are in our woods. Many of them are exiled there because of the actions of their ancestors, not because of their own actions, and so long as they behave appropriately, they shall be welcome to the Lodge.
 
Seconded.

The Banner thanks the Alya for allowing us to help us all by catching smugglers.

Alya is against all attempts against the law of Nesse

They have the protection of the Drezden so long as they are in our woods. Many of them are exiled there because of the actions of their ancestors, not because of their own actions, and so long as they behave appropriately, they shall be welcome to the Lodge.

Alya have shown interest in the idea that punishment will not move through the generations and that the children of exiled would be allowed in Alya after some form of a proper way to show their loyalty, but until that idea is accepted we have no other choice but to hold Nesse law.
 
The Drezden understand your position. We have interest in trading with them, and so they will be protected here.
 
Hey, don't be blaming whatever happened to the Askani on "the Exiles". Sure, one Exile clan was involved, but only as hired muscle. The rest of us weren't involved at all, and even the Mortuus were simply acting on some fool's idea of what was best for Nesse (or, more likely, the fool).

The House of the Horned King supports opening trade with the Exiles, and recruiting soldiers from them, if the Exiles cooperate among themselves to destroy Clan Mortuus. However, taxes from this trade must go to Nesse.

Recent events have made clear the need for a formal army. We throw our wholehearted support behind it.

Finally, we wish the matter of the Cyrians to be first and foremost among the issues presented to the Senate. They are not a matter of policy, or education, or patronage. They are an existential threat to the city of Nesse, and should be given priority.

Also, we're willing to assist the Ninticus Clan in patrolling the outer walls in return for compensation.
 
lol I was the first to suggest an Army of Nesse so of course Alya stands behind the idea.
 
The Watchman's first duty is to protect the walls of the city in crisis. We will patrol the walls as it is repaired.
 
The Justo Clan
To: The Elites, Outlanders
With regards to the Cyrian situation the Justo Clan proposes that rather than constructing a new fortification we instead claim the former Hyksoz fort. Although damaged repair will be much easier than building a new fort. The terrain of this area will also be an advantage in the future. Expansion to this fort will also claim new lands for Nesse increasing the wealth and prosperity for all involved.

To: The Gatekeepers
Searches made on our fishing vessels are a great inconvenience to our fisherman. We have not been harboring smugglers and have no desire to in the future. We demand that all searches on Justo Fishing vessels be ceased immediately otherwise we will find/build an alternative port for our fishing fleet.

To: The Senate
If the Senate is interested in constructing a Nessian fleet the Justo clan would be willing to provide its expertise in ship design and sailing skills. Our skilled sailors would also be willing to man these ships if compensated adequately.
 
The Justo Clan
To: The Elites, Outlanders
With regards to the Cyrian situation the Justo Clan proposes that rather than constructing a new fortification we instead claim the former Hyksoz fort. Although damaged repair will be much easier than building a new fort. The terrain of this area will also be an advantage in the future. Expansion to this fort will also claim new lands for Nesse increasing the wealth and prosperity for all involved.

To: The Gatekeepers
Searches made on our fishing vessels are a great inconvenience to our fisherman. We have not been harboring smugglers and have no desire to in the future. We demand that all searches on Justo Fishing vessels be ceased immediately otherwise we will find/build an alternative port for our fishing fleet.

To: The Senate
If the Senate is interested in constructing a Nessian fleet the Justo clan would be willing to provide its expertise in ship design and sailing skills. Our skilled sailors would also be willing to man these ships if compensated adequately.
Alya not only has an interest in a fleet - but it is meaning to build one very soon.
 
TURN 4 SENATE TOPICS

Here's how I plan to run things. After every update, everyone has 24 hours to bring forward any topic for the Senate. I will compile them and put them to the floor for discussion of options within 24 hours of that. Then, after another 24-48 hours of discussion, I shall bring things to a vote and Thlayli will help me compile votes.

This turn, the following topics are to be brought to the floor for discussion. Please place your House Name and Topic Code in bold before you mention anything to make it clear. (for my sake if no one else's)

DOMESTIC ISSUES
  • Funds for Sewer System (4D1)
    The Fiddler Conclave has stood up and proposed the construction of a sewer system to replace the old city waste channels. The topic to be voted on is whether to provide funding and manpower for such a project - and the discussion is on how to obtain said funding and manpower.
  • Codification of Nesse Law (4D2)
    With the recent adoption of alphabetic script for vulgar use, there has been talk of codifying the immemorial customs of Nesse city into Law. The topic to be voted on is whether to codify Nesse law - and the discussion is on the merits of codification versus that of maintaining unwritten custom.
  • Extension of Nesse Law and Custom to the Outlands (4D3)
    House Dicchus wishes to propose the extension of Nessen law to all Nesse citizens in the Outlands. In this fashion, Travelling Magistrates composed of Élite Clans are to conduct tours of the Outlands, rectifying any greviances Nesse citizens may have. The proposal is also to establish a Nesse mission in Uuta with a permanent magistrate for the same purpose. The topic to be voted on is whether to extend Nesse law to the Outlands - and the discussion is on its merits and drawbacks.
    N/B: Please note that this is NOT about imposing Nesse law on Outlanders, this law is about extending the privilege and right to legal recourse for Nesse citizens in the Outlands
  • The Exile Situation (4D4)
    With the discovery of those responsible for the Askani assassinations, and the recent trouble with the smugglers, Nesse needs to decide on a concerted policy with the Exiles. The topic to be voted on is what to do with the Exiles (current Options are: legalise trade with them, continue enforcing policy of killing Exiles, any other option which is raised in discussion) - and the discussion is on the merits of either options and alternative options.

MILITARY ISSUES
  • Creation of a Defensive Militia (4M1)
    House Dicchus would like to propose the creation of a defensive militia for the purposes of defending Nesse ONLY. This militia will be composed of Nessen City citizens who shall be trained several days every month in urban fighting, wall defence, and field fortifications. Their main objective is to free up the Élite warbands for any other punitive expeditions which are necessary and should they be attacked, to hold out long enough for reinforcements to arrive. The City Militia will be funded by the City and trained by a War Leader (appointed from the Élite) along with the support of the Watchmen of the City as NCOs (which at the moment, is only the Banner) . The topic to be voted on is whether to establish a militia in the aforementioned fashion - and the discussion is on its merits and drawbacks, as well as methods of funding.
  • Creation of an Offensive Militia Army of Nesse (4M2)
    House Dicchus would like to propose the creation of an offensive militia for the purposes of providing manpower in the event of any punitive expeditions. This militia will be composed of Outlanders who upon providing satisfactory military service, be granted citizenship of Nesse, with all the protections it implies. The topic to be voted on is whether to establish a militia in the aforementioned fashion - and the discussion is on its merits and drawbacks.

    Following discussion, the feeling in the Senate is that a militia is not desirable for punitive expeditions. Thus, the First Proposed Amendment to 4M2 is as follows: -

    The Army of Nesse is and offensive arm and under the leadership of Élite, conduct punitive expeditions in the field - as opposed to defending the city directly.
    They are thus trained for field warfare (unlike the defensive militia, trained for defensive warfare).
    They are trained full-time (again, unlike the defensive militia which is proposed as a City-citizenship obligation) and composed of volunteers from Nesse and from the Outlands.
    The Army is paid at the same rate as the defensive militia, but on a full-time basis, and is supported by taxes on the city.
    In addition to renumeration, Citizens in the Army shall be granted a tract of land or a pension upon a reasonable period of service at a reasonable level of competency.
    In addition to renumeration, Outlanders in the Army shall be granted Nesse citizenship upon a reasonable period of service at a reasonable level of competency.
    The Army is led by a War Leader, a position which shall be reviewed annually. The Moderator reserves the right of appointment of the Army's War Leader.
  • Establishment of Fire Clan Fort (4M3)
    The Fire Clan requests the Senate's permission to establish a Fort in the Southlands (Iaeda?) for border defence. The topic to be voted on is whether to allow the construction of such a fort - and the discussion is on its merits and drawbacks

FOREIGN AFFAIRS
  • Hostage Southwest Expedition - Ram Tribe (4F1)
    The Ram Tribe has the Ìedamos-led SW Expedition hostage and is willing to release them in exchange for half the caravan's goods. Ìedamos has requested permission to handle the situation themselves. The topic to be voted on is what to do regarding this situation - and the discussion is on alternative options, if any.
    SITUATION RESOLVED
  • Cyrian Tribute Mission (4F2)
    The Cyrians have sent their representatives to demand tribute from our City and to appoint a "governor" (for lack of a better term). REMEMBER, the objective is to get the Cyrians off our backs long enough for us to have a suitable response to such arrogance. The topic to be voted on is what to do in response to this - and the discussion is on what options we have.
  • Alliance with the Golden Tribe (4F3)
    House Ìedamos has proposed creating an alliance with the Golden Tribe to present a united military front against the Cyrians. The topic to be voted on is whether to send a diplomatic mission to the Golden Tribe - and the discussion is on its merits and drawbacks.

-------------------------------

OTHER NOTES
  • Fiddler has asked for permission to trade with Uuta. My interpretation of the law is that so long as non-Élite Clans pay the Ninticus tolls and their taxes, AND do not pretend to represent the City of Nesse, then there is no infringement of Élite rights. Thus, they are free to trade as they wish without needing permission.
  • Fiddler has requested permission to build a great Academy and Hospital for the city. While the Hospital's purpose is obvious, more details are needed on both buildings' purposes before proceeding in Senate.
  • Wolf Clan has suggested the creation of an army, because that's already mentioned in topics 4M1 and 4M2, I have held back from putting forward that proposal for now. Feel free to suggest it in discussion, though.
 
House Dicchus - DISCUSSIONS

Dicchus - 4D1
We agree in principle with the Fiddler Conclave adminstering this project. The city SHOULD fund this, and I feel it is fair to raise a public works tax for the sewers. Alternatively, we could kick off public subscription to see if sufficient funds are raised. If the latter is selected, the Dicchus Clan will contribute something.

Dicchus - 4D3
Because we suggested this, it is obvious that we will support this idea wholeheartedly. This will provide suitable legal protection to any Nesse citizens who wish to trade in the Outlands, and will promote safe and peaceful trading there.

Dicchus - 4M1 and 4M2
Again, this method means the Élite warbands along with the offensive militia can conduct punitive expeditions versus the barbarians while our defensive militia holds out against any other enemies which may come while we are distracted. It is an integrated military system which doesn't overly tax the Nesse citizen - and will hopefully create a sense of belonging within Nesse (and within new Outland-Citizens)

Dicchus - 4F2
We will obviously need to come up with a solution. I do not believe our military is capable of holding out against the Cyrians for now, even wi the help of any potential Golden Tribe alliance. We suggest and recommend the sending of a tribute mission to Cyriac BUT also looking for a mutually face-saving method.
Dicchus suggests acknowledging (read: giving lip service to) Cyrian suzerainty while requesting that we maintain our customs and way of life - failing which, we may look for an alliance with the Golden Barbarians and Nabar (the former will want help against Cyria, the latter knows we are a good buffer state)

EDIT: I also wish to point out that by allowing us to "maintain our own customs", Cyria doesn't appoint a governor or anything - we maintain OUR own Senate customs. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.
 
What compensation does the House of the Horned King need for compensation?

Also:

Trade is never damaging if it is done among friends. How are we taking money out of your pockets? Without us City of Nesse would be in financial crisis - merchants can't trade because of the high taxes. If the élites would think on the Citizens, they would cut taxes and allow more trade - instead you refused to cut taxes.

People are blantantly trying to avoid paying gate tolls. That is an illegal act, and those who are caught doing so will be brought to trial. By the way, we already cut tariffs. It doesn't suprise us that the empty-headed Moon Shadow Clan doesn't know of this, but they should atleast try to have knowledge about what they speak.

If Alya truly harbors criminals among its men we will quickly work with your do dispatch them. We will require your aid in finding and eliminating all criminals that are Alya. Alya will not become an house of criminals. We also did not create any "unofficial" gates. Again we will work with your to dispatch the city of those. While we are against the gate tolls - we do not break the laws of Nesse.

Since so many reports have come in about shady dealings near the outer wall and many other clans support the Ninticus Clan watching over the outer wall, we will from now watch over the outer wall with the same amount of vigor that we guard the inner wall. Any criminals caught will be brought to fair trial.

We think City of Nesse has enough troops and well trained militia (you caught assasians!) to defend themselves against any attack and city guards would surely notice anyone trying to invade to our beloved home town. We request that - just as we do take all élites as one clan, you do not take Exiled ones as one clan - Moon Shadow and many other clans had nothing to do with the assasinations !

While generally we find most of the Exiles' speech to be nonsense, this statement is very true. We have exceptionally skilled guards and watchmen within our city, yet the head of a family was assassinated. It is obvious that someone within Nesse smuggled the assassin into our city with great care and skill. They would've had to have the resources to pay the assassin and make sure they arrived safely and undetected. This means that it is highly unlikely that those who hired the assassins are a simple Nesser or Outlander family. It would either have to be a rather wealthy family, or an Elite one in our opinion.

On the matter of legalizing trade with the Exiles: The Ninticus supports it, just so long as it is limited to some select port or section of land that would allow both Nessers and Exiles to trade in. Of course, we agree with House Iademos's idea about demanding the Exile Clan known as Mortuus to be handed over so that we may bring them to justice. After that, perhaps our relations won't be so cold.

On the topic of making a formal army: The Ninticus Clan supports this action..... But the issue of who makes up this army still remains. Do we conscript people? Take volunteers? Does each Clan send a certain amount of men to join the army? This can be a very touchy issue for many inhabitants of Nesse, and the potential for a general to abuse power could scare many into thinking this is a bad idea.

On the matter of the Cyrians: We do not know what to think. The Cyrians are mighty indeed, but seem a bit spread thin. They have obviously been at war with many cities and kingdoms. While this provides them with additional resources, manpower, and experiance in warfare, it also means that many in their cities must be sick of fighting. It also means that they have a great many enemies that would eagerly strike them down if they had the chance. In my opinion, I believe we have 3 choices:

1. Someone decides to accept their offer and assume total control of the region. While this might seem like a bad idea, we could simply make this individual a figurehead who must answer to the Senate and the people of Nesse. It would allow us to be on good terms with the Cyrian Empire, as well as keep our traditional way of life. We may also be able to extend our control over the entire region, giving our fair city a vast amount of resources in which to improve the lives of our citizens.

2. We outright reject their offer and dig in. We might have a small window of oppurtunity to unite the people's around us to that we might be ready when the hammer falls upon us. If we are triumphant, we would be in charge of a fairly unified region, as well as be a world-renown force that stood against the Cyrians. This reputation could allow us to conduct ourselves as equals amongst such entities as the Sea Kingdom or the far away City of the Easterners. (whom we are interested in contacting.

3. We accept their offer, and then backstab them. While we don't really endorse this action, it is certainly an option. It could be quite effective too, as a sneek attack could prove devastating if the Cyrians commit their forces to other areas. If we could maybe even attack their capital and slaughter their leaders, their whole empire could come tumbling down.

On the issue of letting the Conclave exit the city to communicate with scientists of the Outlands: We are perfectly fine with this, and are overjoyed to see someone following the rules of the gates. If the Senate doesn't show any real opposition towards the Conclave going to the Outlands, we see no problem either.
 
The House of the Horned King wants lowered tolls for Nessians, and no tolls for Horned priests entering and exiting the city, so that we can conduct missionary efforts among the Barbs and Outlands.

We support 4D3, 4M1, and 4M2, and are still considering the others.
 
To: The House of the Horned King
From: The Ninticus Clan


Well, it looks like we will patrol our walls alone. Thanks for offering though.

Ninticus Clan 4M1 and 4M2: I support these two proposals with enthusiasm! However, by having the deensive militia trained by the cities watchmen do you mean the Ninticus Clan and the Banner of the Eagle? Or just the Banner, as it seems to me that they are also known simply as the watchmen, and we want to avoid any confusion. The Ninticus Clan would be very willing to help train the defensive militia with the assistance of any other clan.

Ninticus 4F3: We really doubt this would work. And if we plan on accepting Cyrian suzerainty, allying with Barbarians may land us in hot water if they try anything foolsih.

Ninticus 4F2: Read our above post (OOC: I wrote it before I had read BannanaLee's new format)
 
I've edited 4M1 to clarify the situation. The way I see it, since Ninticus and Banner are skilled at doing it against the wall, Ninticus could be officers and Banners could be NCOs so to speak.
 
ALYA
4D1 Alya is fully supporting a one time tax for sewere and other such buisness construction.
4D2 Alya supports writing the laws of Nesse into writen accords - together with discussing changes in a few.
4D3 Alya somewhat supports the idea. The question that remains is whether or not the Outlanders will agree to follow all of Nesse rules.
4D4 Alya belives exiled cans are crimonals and should be dealt as such. War should be brought to their island to make sure they do not ever harm Nesse in any way. Yet at the same time we believe that while clans exiled should always remain exiled - the people who are part of the clan could return to Nesse after a certain show of loyalty and they must not be from the generation of the exiled people of the clan.

4M14M2 Instead of seperated militaries an army of Nesse should be formed out of volunteers who will be paid and given land in return for their service.
4M3 Alya agrees that a fort must be built, but it should be taken further - outposts, guard towers and several more forts should be built to give Nesse a powerful line of defense against invading armies.


4F1 We believe clan Iadeumos could handle the situation themselves and should be allowed to.
4F2 We agree that we must contact Cyrians and request to keep our way of government in return for tribute.
4F3 An alliance with the Golden barbs and possibly the Bear Barbs should be considered. The Bear barbs have already suggested an alliance, against the wolf barbs and could prove a potent ally.
 
OOC: I'm not in the Senate, so I'll just make declarations. :p

On the subject of a formal army:

In times of peace, Nesse is well protected by the Banner of Eagles and by House Ninticus. Our city's main concern is how to raise troops in time of war.

House Ìademos proposes that every major Outlander and Nesser clan add their names to a Militia Levy. This would be a standardization of the roles played by the Outlanders in time of war, and would add contributions from the city clans as well.

Each Nesser house could be expected to send a small quota of its' householders to be trained each year for one month. In times of war, these householders would join pre-assigned militia companies led by an Elite commander. The Outlanders already organize their own companies, but standardizing their organization would help as well.

On the subject of the Southern Caravan:

We request that 4F1 be withdrawn, as we believe a vote unnecessary. As of now, we believe the caravan matter to be a private negotiation between House Ìademos (and the Houses we represent) and the Ram Barbarians. Adding further elite diplomatic intervention would confuse the situation and jeopardize our chances of a peaceful settlement.
 
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