ZPNESVI Discussion Thread (Nesse)

[BananaLee]

ALYA
4D3 Alya somewhat supports the idea. The question that remains is whether or not the Outlanders will agree to follow all of Nesse rules.

Dicchus - 4D3
In this proposal, it is suggested that Outlanders are not obliged to follow Nesse law and custom EXCEPT in dealings with Nesse citizens. Nesse citizens in the Outlands are accorded the same protection as Nesse citizens in the City and thus any injury to a Nesse citizen will be dealt with in accordance to custom.

 

[Anonymoose]

The Drezden resent your remarks. The Nessers are perfectly safe in Outland and always have been. This is obviously a play for greater jurisdiction and more power for the Senate. The Trade Federation will protect Nessers as well as, if not better than an Elite warband.

 

[BananaLee]

Dicchus to Drezden

Who let you into Senate discussion?
But in all seriousness,
This is what members of the Outlands do not understand. The concept of legal protection rather than physical protection. We offer all Nesse citizens in the Outlands protection under Nesse law. That includes the right to legal recourse in the event of civil disputes.

Therefore, your (contentious) point regarding the Trade Federation's capabilities to protect Nesse citizens from physical harm is moot.

 

[Thlayli]

Additionally, we believe the Senate should demand the appointment of a Diplomat to the Cyrians from either the Alya or Challoan Clans, perhaps to negotiate a settlement where Cyrian supremacy is recognized without Cyrian garrisons being sent to our lands. If the Cyrians insist upon polluting Nesse's fair soil with their soldiers, we should oppose their every step!

On the new public works projects being planned, we suggest that the Elite houses forgo SOME of their tax revenues to help fund the sewer system, the new temple, and the ongoing wall construction for the city. We have the opportunity to replan Old Nesse in our image, now that the Underspirits have seen fit to rearrange our buildings.

On the Exile situation, we do not propose attacking Exile Island. The Nuuds, Cyrians, and Barbs could attack us at any time, and we will require all our forces at our disposal.

Rather, we propose a restoration of Nesser citizenship for the Exiled Clan that wipes out the Mortuus for what they have done.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Ninticus 4F2

I believe that we should set up a figurehead that will accept the Cyrians' offer, but in the end is subject to the will of the Senate and the people of Nesse. This will allow us to maintain our traditions and customs, while keeping the Cyrians' off of our backs. Perhaps we may even be able to introduce our superior culture to the Cyrians and have them adopt our philosophies.

Ninticus 4D1

I support the Fiddlers' efforts in improving the sanitation in Nesse and wish them the best of luck in their endevors.

-----------------------------------------------

Also, the Ninticus clan would like to discuss the defence of these new settlements that are springing up. Who will be in charge of defending these small towns? Those who have been investing in them? The Outlanders? We would like to know that they are in good hands, for they are our only large settlements besides Nesse itself. In time they could prove to be prospurous and provide us with much needed resources.

Also, do we plan on annexing any of the nearby barbarians? It was been breifly discussed, but we believe that if we are to actually follow through with it, we must go into depth discussing what would happen to the barbarians. Would we try to re-educate them? Or simply let the old, uncivilized generations die and reer their children to live just as we do?

 

[orangelex44]

@Daft: Did you see my earlier post with stat questions?

 

[Anonymoose]

The Drezden know the meaning of the word moot. (OOC: lol!)

 

[germanicus12]

Marcus Wolf votes to create an formal army, not militia, to secure the future of Nesse.

Also we believe that we should strike some kind of agreement with the Cyrians without them bringing their troops onto what is rightfully our lands.

Other points we have no say, and will abstain, mainly due to the fact that we are not as knowledgeable in that aspect of city management. But we will agree that a sewer and temple both advance our society.

 

[Thlayli]

On 4F2, House Ìademos reminds the Ninticus that accepting the Cyrian proposal verbatim would, besides being a huge humiliation for our leadership, place Cyrian troops in Nesser territory.

While we are not opposed to an arrangement, the Cyrians are powerful. Once they are on our lands, they could alter the deal, and we would simply have to pray that they do not alter it further.

 

[alex994]

While the House of Demetrii have no formal say, we will still make our opinions know in order so that the Elites can make better judgments:

House Demetrii

4D1: We fully support the building of a sewer system and will lend our craftsmanship to that effort.
4D2: We support the codification of Nessian law.
4D3: We fully support the extension of Nesse law and customs to the Outlands,

4M1: The House fully supports the idea of a defensive militia as being instrumental to maintaining order within the City.
4M2: We support the idea of an offensive military but insist that it not be simply composed of Outlanders.
4M3: We have no opinion on the fort.

House Demetrii also officially announces that we will trade outside the city walls as well.

 

[BananaLee]

Also, the Ninticus clan would like to discuss the defence of these new settlements that are springing up. Who will be in charge of defending these small towns? Those who have been investing in them? The Outlanders? We would like to know that they are in good hands, for they are our only large settlements besides Nesse itself. In time they could prove to be prospurous and provide us with much needed resources.

Dicchus - Misc. Discussion - Who Protects the Outer Towns?
I believe *at the moment*, Élite warbands would rush out to defend the outer settlements. But there is no formal arrangement as far as I know.
At the moment, the Fire Clan has requested to build a fort (presumably at Iaeda - issue 4M3) so they could stand and defend the area.

Dicchus - 4M2 (Amendment One)
It seems the general feeling amongst the Élite is for the creation of an Army rather than an Offensive Militia.
This is the amendment I wish to suggest as an alternative based on what I'm hearing from the floor: -

The Army of Nesse is and offensive arm and under the leadership of Élite, conduct punitive expeditions in the field - as opposed to defending the city directly.
They are thus trained for field warfare (unlike the defensive militia, trained for defensive warfare).
They are trained full-time (again, unlike the defensive militia which is proposed as a City-citizenship obligation) and composed of volunteers from Nesse and from the Outlands.
The Army is paid at the same rate as the defensive militia, but on a full-time basis, and is supported by taxes on the city.
In addition to renumeration, Citizens in the Army shall be granted a tract of land or a pension upon a reasonable period of service at a reasonable level of competency.
In addition to renumeration, Outlanders in the Army shall be granted Nesse citizenship upon a reasonable period of service at a reasonable level of competency.
The Army is led by a War Leader, a position which shall be reviewed annually. The Moderator reserves the right of appointment of the Army's War Leader

 

[Ninja Dude]

On 4F2, House Ìademos reminds the Ninticus that accepting the Cyrian proposal verbatim would, besides being a huge humiliation for our leadership, place Cyrian troops in Nesser territory.

While we are not opposed to an arrangement, the Cyrians are powerful. Once they are on our lands, they could alter the deal, and we would simply have to pray that they do not alter it further.

However, we must keep in mind that refusing their proposal outright will also bring their troops into our territory, and that if they do defeat us with their military, we could suffer an even worse humiliation. We must think about this carefully, and find away for us to maintain our independance without getting crushed by the Cyrians either. While we believe that a war with them would be difficult and costly, we may be able to win if we really tried. But the sheer cost of the war, along with the fact that we have many neighbors looking to expand their power makes this a not so benificial choice.

But if the Cyrians do attempt to cross into our lands, we agree that they should be repelled with every ounce of energy we have.

 

[germanicus12]

Dicchus - Misc. Discussion - Who Protects the Outer Towns?
I believe *at the moment*, Élite warbands would rush out to defend the outer settlements. But there is no formal arrangement as far as I know.
At the moment, the Fire Clan has requested to build a fort (presumably at Iaeda - issue 4M3) so they could stand and defend the area.

Dicchus - 4M2 (Amendment One)
It seems the general feeling amongst the Élite is for the creation of an Army rather than an Offensive Militia.
This is the amendment I wish to suggest as an alternative based on what I'm hearing from the floor: -

The Army of Nesse is and offensive arm and under the leadership of Élite, conduct punitive expeditions in the field - as opposed to defending the city directly.
They are thus trained for field warfare (unlike the defensive militia, trained for defensive warfare).
They are trained full-time (again, unlike the defensive militia which is proposed as a City-citizenship obligation) and composed of volunteers from Nesse and from the Outlands.
The Army is paid at the same rate as the defensive militia, but on a full-time basis, and is supported by taxes on the city.
In addition to renumeration, Citizens in the Army shall be granted a tract of land or a pension upon a reasonable period of service at a reasonable level of competency.
In addition to renumeration, Outlanders in the Army shall be granted Nesse citizenship upon a reasonable period of service at a reasonable level of competency.
The Army is led by a War Leader, a position which shall be reviewed annually. The Moderator reserves the right of appointment of the Army's War Leader

Marcus Wolf

I approve of this new amendment to Dicchus 4M2 as it provides the best future for Nesse.

We also throw our support for Dicchus 4D3.

 

[BananaLee]

Dicchus -4F2

I believe we all agree that Cyrian troops cannot be in our land.
Personally, we believe there should not be a figurehead appointed by the Cyrians as that symbolises our subservience to them.

Thus, as our proposal imples, we suggest sending a diplomatic mission to the Cyrians with tribute (taken from the Élite in equal proportions) and acknowledging the Cyrians as our "elder brothers" or "spiritual fathers" (or something like that).
In exchange, we need to extract concessions with regards to allowing us to administer the region under our immemorial customs
In sum, we keep all our trappings and Senate and way of life in exchange for lip service to Cyrian suzerainty and annual tribute. (think Tanguts and China) This is meant to be a stopgap measure until we can effectively hold them off.

 

[Thlayli]

House Ìademos is prepared to protect Iaeda at our own expense, barring major invasion by a foreign power. A small stipend from the Senate to construct fortifications and purchase weapons from House Tuxenius would be appreciated.

If the Fire Clan wish to house a detachment of their warriors in our town, they are welcome. As long as our suzerainty over the town is recognized.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Dicchus -4F2

I believe we all agree that Cyrian troops cannot be in our land.
Personally, we believe there should not be a figurehead appointed by the Cyrians as that symbolises our subservience to them.

Thus, as our proposal imples, we suggest sending a diplomatic mission to the Cyrians with tribute (taken from the Élite in equal proportions) and acknowledging the Cyrians as our "elder brothers" or "spiritual fathers" (or something like that).
In exchange, we need to extract concessions with regards to allowing us to administer the region under our immemorial customs
In sum, we keep all our trappings and Senate and way of life in exchange for lip service to Cyrian suzerainty and annual tribute. (think Tanguts and China) This is meant to be a stopgap measure until we can effectively hold them off.

Wouldn't this method also be admitting their superiority? Still, it gives us the right to govern our own lands and keeps the Cyrians out of them too, so we don't see anything wrong with this plan.

 

[BananaLee]

Wouldn't this method also be admitting their superiority? Still, it gives us the right to govern our own lands and keeps the Cyrians out of them too, so we don't see anything wrong with this plan.

Yes and no. The lack of overt Cyrian influence means we can spin it in any way we choose.

 

[Vertinari118]

OOC: Awesome an army. Can we please retcon out the whole incident about us threatening to leave?

Bear-4F2

We are willing to send warriors to guard the tribute caravan and, if the Cyrians demand it, service them in whatever capacity they desire. These men shall be hand-picked for their fieldcraft, strength, bravey, courage and loyalty to Nesse. They shall send covert reports once every five years or whenever something significant happens. They could of course be augmented by the addition of assassins and other exiles. Is this acceptable to the Senate?

Bear-4M1

We fully support the creation of a defensive militia to defend Nesse in the event of invasion. We would like to ask for clarification on one point: will this militia support the Outlands as well? If not what will support the Outlanders if they face a threat they cannot overcome?

Bear-4M2

We fully advocate this course of action. All of our warriors not already engaged on the matters outlined above, if the Senate ordains to use our warriors for these matters, will form a core for this army. We request that we be allowed to keep our traditional armament of a clutch of javelins; a spear, axe or sword, depending on the standing of the warrior; shield and light weight leather armour. We also request the Bear Clan section of the army be led by members of the Bear Clan with overall command being deferred to the war leader of course.

Bear-4D3

The Bear Clan fully support this as it suggests a move towards incorporating the Outlanders into a proper Nesse state. The Bear Clan doubts we will survive much longer divided up into various towns and estates each ruled exclusively by one family and unanswerable to the Senate, as long as they commit no offensive on Nesse herself or any of her allies. We believe that the incorporation of such laws into the Outlands may also benefit our fellow Outlanders for each Clan has its own laws and no formal laws have ever been written for the Outlands. We wonder how taxing it is for the Outlander Trade Federation to keep settling inter-clan disputes.

 

[BananaLee]

if the Cyrians demand it, service them in whatever capacity they desire

Sorry.. I'll get back to reading it now.

 

[Vertinari118]

Now, now BananaLee don't get childish, I didn't mean it in that sense and if they tried they would find themselves unable to attempt such practices again. They would also eventually suffer acute renal failure.