Cutthroat Culture

[vadalaz]

Before, I was fine with peace after liberating Melbourne. Now I think we should stay at war with Spain until we have Madrid.

What does everyone else think? I'm currently on T205, Melbourne is liberated and Spain's willing to give up a city (Murcia) for peace. We could take ~60 gpt and Wine instead if we wanted. Wave of Artillery coming up in 4-5 turns, travel time to Madrid is another 5-6. Alternatively, our Spanish army could join up with Arties in 5 turns and go attack someone else.

Isabella only has one wonder - Colossus in Seville, a pretty mediocre city otherwise. She has 8 tourism, so only 4 great works at best.

 

[Grendeldef]

I don’t understand, why all the Lumber Mills? Farms are better and that is not even counting the chops, which are also very nice. Except on Tundra, Lumber Mills are a waste of Worker time and a tile that will hardly every be worked.

They serve different purpose so one isn't always better than the other.

Not all cities will have hills to mine for hammers and if tech path goes, as mine for example usually does, ST before Chemistry then it's Mine hammers and one food.on top of that while waiting for the latter. Occasionally hammers are needed for a project quickly so growth is halted or with negative happiness there's prolly no point running just farms and specialist slots may not be available. Micromanaging needs options. Later in the game when growth is halted anyway hammers are once again especially welcomed. Hammers from logs are very handy early on but quickly loses value.
It's situational depending on policies, happiness & pretty much everything else but variety of tile options is preferable - none of our cities is running all available farms either.

 

[vadalaz]

Well, I chose peace with Spain. To me continuing the war seemed like a waste of time after liberating Melbourne and 62 gpt + Wine is a pretty decent peace deal anyway. We can re-DoW later when Isabella has more great works and we have far superior units.

T200:
- Coup in Sidon successful, moving to La Venta
- Switch research to Flight

T201:
- RA with Hiawatha complete, got Flight, starting Replaceable parts
- Hiawatha builds Eiffel, forgot to check in which city
- Washy and Hia denounce Elizabeth. Denouncing her would give us a bonus with almost everyone but we're friends unfortunately

T202:
- New SP: Fine arts

T203:
- RA with Washy complete
- Spain adopts Order

T204:
- Liberated Melbourne. Our Privateer teleports to Kiev
- GA spawns
- 80% coup failed in La Venta, can't have them all
- Purchased another prophet to convert Spain and/or nearby CSs for Tithe gold

T205:
- Made peace with Spain, 62 gpt and Wine
- Traded OB with Spain

T206:
- Denounced Spain to please everyone else

T207:
- Voted America for WC host
- Converted Barcelona to Catholicism

T209:
- Finished Kremlin, took Flourishing of the Arts
- Converted Seville
- Signed an RA with America

Spoiler Screen :

Notes:

- Rio and Sao Paolo have Military Academies so I built the first planes there. Forta could get a MA very quickly as well
- Road from Rio to Sao Paolo was started so I continued it sort of on autopilot. Now I see it's not a particularly useful road though as we'll be sending units through Manaus
- Still need railroad to Curitiba Manaus and Sao Paolo
- Southern Frigate was exploring a bit as it didn't need to heal, didn't find anything useful. I think the prophet in Spain can finish exploring
- We have a scout parked on an antiquity site on an island near Jerusalem. There's a barb Gatling there but he's been ignoring our scout so far
- We have 9 delegates in Congress and Pocatello has 10. If we gift gold to Sidon we can have 10 as well so I think we'll get to make a proposal as the first players in turn order? Repealing the Incense ban would be nice
- Moved units to our eastern border as I assumed we'd be attacking Inca/Maya/Portugal here. Could also start preparing for war vs the Iroquois
- We'll need some slots for great works before we start taking cities
- Loading times were already quite slow for me, I unbloated the file, don't know if that helped

 

[raider980]

I'm so mad now. I went back and attempted to take Melbourne from T180 and it was so easy. The first time I failed to notice that Ninja had range and logistics until later in my turns so that was the difference maker I think. I'm sure I often don't even try to take a city because it looks too hard. But so often when I do try, I fail so its a catch 22.

 

[Grendeldef]

T210

- denounced Pacha
- 1 vote for Monte embargo to please Lizzy & the rest for HL
- Maria denounces Lizzy
- Horses to Isa 4/4gpt
- 250G to ally Sidon
- Silk+Embassy to Isa 7gpt

T211

- HL passes, Monte Embargo fails
- Hiawatha gets Broadway in Osininka
- Maria denounces Lizzy
- proposed repealing Incense ban which pleases Hiaw & Lizzy
- coop DoW Pacha with Lizzy
- spies to Bogota & Yerevan after rigging
- Prophet is not enough to convert Cordoba, only 7/15
- Copper to Isa 7gpt
- Horses to Isa 6/6gpt, Lizzy 4/5gpt, capped @120gpt

T212

- TR Fortaleza-Cordoba

T213

- Plastics
- Maria lost capital to Hiawa
- Pacal DoWed Maria
- GS born
- Lizzy goes Modern
- converted Salamanca

T214

- found GBR, sadly both so no NWs left
- Hiawatha joins Hate the Inca club

T215

- planted GS in Manaus leaving the next one to bulb Electronics

T219

- Ballistics
- GA ends
- denounce Pacal

T220

Modern
GS -
bribe -
Workers 12
Cities 8
NW 0

Spoiler pix :

------

- I'd bribe Hiawatha to DoW Washy before taking Cusco. The price has dropped to reasonable level and according to Pacal Washy is plotting against us
- road to Liverpool is now obsolete
- I didn't finish nor remove the parts of Rio - Sao Paulo road as I couldn't figure out what it's supposed to be used for
- I have no idea where Pacha managed to hide his units, I killed few between Liverpool & Dover but that's half a dozen at best
- GWBs in Forta have Repair but Panama isn't getting much of units out
- Rio just finished Labs so it needs reassignments
- Forta is going for Neuschw but sadly only one CS wants it so far. The other two that went for WW q want CR instead
- Electronics is the only thing we can bulb in Modern & GS is 3 turns away

 

[raider980]

I'm playing, its T222 (edit actually I think it’s 221) but need to quit for the night. We're about to capture Cusco. But we have a policy pick too. I see several options, none seem that great:

• Iron Curtain to help with the unhappiness from capping cities, but are there others that we will eventually need rather than this.
• Skyscrapers was mentioned earlier. Are we beyond that though? And its not immediately useful.
• A policy in Aesthetics, neither of which are immediately useful; but we do need to finish the tree at some point:
  • Another GArt to go along with our other GArts just sitting around.
  • Increased tourism modifiers, but we have no tourism.
• Free Thought. Do we even need it at this point?

 

[vadalaz]

I do think we can afford at least one more filler policy before finishing Aesthetics, our culture should start rising rapidly soon and we can also build SOH later.

I'd take Aristocracy as it actually provides additional happiness and maybe stop growing @20 pop in cities that don't have that many good tiles. Iron Curtain gives Courthouses but those can be hard-built very quickly anyway with 5-year-plan. Free thought seems a bit overkill for just Radar and Internet and Skyscrapers would've been great if we actually had any gold.

Bribing Hiawatha is cheap but won't we have to respect the deal and not DoW him for another 30 turns then? I imagine we'll want to attack him sooner than that. I suppose we could pay him a lump sum but another problem is that Hia and Washy likely won't actually fight and just make peace in 10 turns. Washy appears friendly enough and he's been plotting against us at least since turn 170 with no consequences, plus he's at war with Poca so I don't think he's much of a threat atm.

 

[Grendeldef]

I'd like to keep the option of DoWing Hiawatha sooner but even more I'd like not to participate in the Great North American Gangbang with Hiawatha & Washy at this point hence I'm willing to wait for Nukes and take Lisbon & Osininka in a couple of turns or if we're desperate a couple of GG bombs might do the trick. Deer near Cuba would be a good spot for one. This is assuming Pacal is the next target and the Incense city and/or a riverside by the Wheat would come very handy but it's a bit late for that now. The worst option would got stuck in Palenque/Tikal & double-DoW. Whether Hiawatha & Washy actually start killing each other isn't a great concern to me - I'd just like to keep'em of pur back until that RA finishes in 20. After that DoWing Washy seems fun and we can resurrect Monte whom we kill off as collateral damage while moving to the Mayan lands. Yeah, I know it's not necessarily the shortest route but you haven't seen my hiking trips in Norway on a map.
The alternative options are DoWing Hiawatha as soon as possible but he has endless oil unless we'll bomb & pillage it away, DoW Washy & not wait the RA or just do wait for being attacked.
Maybe I just want to finally kill something as this game has been very far from violent apart from differences in direction so the Meta volunteered itself to asylum & I stopped making suggestions. Can we still win - sure, with CV - sure but it'll take some time so this might end up as Diplo again or a long Sci. Even Dom would be faster.

 

[raider980]

One more thing. Annex or Puppet? We had this discussion before and I was doing it wrong but don’t remember which is the best method? Especially for a culture game. Inca have 3 wonders and I imagine they’re all in Cusco. Does that make a difference in the choice? My default is always puppet but not sure if that is best.

 

[vadalaz]

Maybe I just want to finally kill something as this game has been very far from violent apart from differences in direction so the Meta volunteered itself to asylum & I stopped making suggestions.

I understand the frustration and I've gone silent towards the end of a couple of these SGs myself. I still think they're fun though and I find myself more invested in them than solo games. Which causes more frustration when things unexpectedly go awry. This game I did try my best to stay true to the violent CV goal, in my mind I pictured we'd start actually killing things a good 50-60 turns earlier though.

I don't know how to solve the problem of taking these very convoluted paths to victory. Maybe we can set some intermittent goals every 50 turns or so, maybe we can all try to be more vocal, at least about our own sessions and the reasoning behind some of the decisions and what we're setting the next player up for. If anyone sees any has any suggestions on how to make this a smoother experience or thoughts about the current problems, please share them.

 

[vadalaz]

One more thing. Annex or Puppet? We had this discussion before and I was doing it wrong but don’t remember which is the best method? Especially for a culture game. Inca have 3 wonders and I imagine they’re all in Cusco. Does that make a difference in the choice? My default is always puppet but not sure if that is best.

What I do is puppet while the city's in resistance, annex when happiness allows or when it's not too critical to remain in positive happiness, and build/buy Courthouse as soon as possible (or never build it if I'm for some reason swimming in happiness)

 

[beetle]

If it is not too late, I recommend Disney in Manaus or Sao Paulo. There is no hurry, and Fortaleza would be better used to build us a navy.

Do we ever dare propose WR? That would really help with CV. Plus after that, we could probably manage WI vote.

They serve different purpose so one isn't always better than the other.

I follow your logic, but remain skeptical. I will make it point to build Lumber Mills on non-river Grassland/Plains for my next several games, and see if I notice a difference. I remember that when I started prioritizing chops that it really accelerated my game.

Well, I chose peace with Spain…

That is fine with me. As you note, Madrid is not so great, and the war would have significant opportunity costs.

One more thing. Annex or Puppet?

Wrong question! You should be asking: Raze or Puppet? Late game, with Iron Curtain, Annex upon capture can make sense.

Bribing Hiawatha is cheap but won't we have to respect the deal and not DoW him for another 30 turns then?

We said we would not bribe then DoW on the same turn. But I do not think we have to wait 30 turns! Ten turns seems like more than enough not to feel like an exploit. Especially since we are only allowing ourselves one bribe per era.

If we build Hubble, do we have to plant both of those GS? Seems to me like we should get one extra GS bulb for that.

 

[vadalaz]

As an aside, I only recently found out that the AI never builds Neuschwanstein because of an error in the XML. All other buildings and wonders have "flavors" so the AI knows what to prioritize, but Neu has none, so the AI just ignores it. See CIV5Buildings_Inherited_Expansion2.xml.

If we build Hubble, do we have to plant both of those GS? Seems to me like we should get one extra GS bulb for that.

Sounds good to me. Building Hubble just to plant two academies does feel wrong.

We said we would not bribe then DoW on the same turn. But I do not think we have to wait 30 turns! Ten turns seems like more than enough not to feel like an exploit.

I think it is an exploit if the bribe isn't in the form of a lump sum. If an AI wants 10 gpt for 30 turns then the lump sum equivalent is 300 gold. Bribing for 10 gpt and DoWing after 10 turns would cheat the AI out of 200 gold.

 

[raider980]

Whew, still playing but its slow going. I'm not sure what Liz is doing but her turn takes forever. I captured Cusco and assume Pacal is next so am heading for Palenque. I bulbed Electronics and it bled over to Radar; we never mentioned about bulb bleeding but I see no way to prevent it and there were no other techs that anyone else had discovered so I went with it.

And no wonder I always seem to get Neuschwanstein!

I understand the frustration and I've gone silent towards the end of a couple of these SGs myself. I still think they're fun though and I find myself more invested in them than solo games. Which causes more frustration when things unexpectedly go awry. This game I did try my best to stay true to the violent CV goal, in my mind I pictured we'd start actually killing things a good 50-60 turns earlier though.

I don't know how to solve the problem of taking these very convoluted paths to victory. Maybe we can set some intermittent goals every 50 turns or so, maybe we can all try to be more vocal, at least about our own sessions and the reasoning behind some of the decisions and what we're setting the next player up for. If anyone sees any has any suggestions on how to make this a smoother experience or thoughts about the current problems, please share them.

Honestly, I think this stems from the difference in our playing ability. You all are clearly much better than I am and have specific things that you do at specific times. And have very concrete ideas on what to do when. I don't have any of that so I'm sure when my turn comes up I don't do anything near what you all would do. And I often don't know what to do so I just pick something.

For example right now. We just got Electronics and Radar. I just took Cusco so am heading toward Palenque. But it is going to take a while to get there and when I do get there I'm sure I won't set the units up properly to take the city in the least number of turns. Also, I'm not sure what I should be building in the cities. Needing slots for GWorks was mentioned so I can imagine building cultural buildings is important. But we're at war and just got Radar so should I be spamming Bombers instead? In all cities? Some of them don't have very good production and Bombers will take a while. Do I build Armories first or is it more important to get the Bombers out?

There ae so many choices and questions that I really don't know the answer to because when I play, I kind of just play and don't plan out every minute detail. So I can imagine it is frustrating sometimes for someone who does plan out details.

To the point of what can we do:

• I think having intermittent goals is a very good idea. Maybe pause after every round and talk about goals for the next round - so if there are 4 players that would be every 40 turns.
• And you all can definitely be more vocal. Especially with specific things that should be done by when; or specific things to build, research, etc.
  • However I have noticed sometimes even you all don't agree and then I'm kind of still left scratching my head about what to do, so I may need to use some liberty with suggestions.
  • And actually sometimes, I've tried to do a little of everyone's suggestions and that might actually be worse than taking only one set of suggestions at a time, not sure about that.

 

[beetle]

Building Hubble just to plant two academies does feel wrong.

Yes, two very late academies!

I think it is an exploit if the bribe isn't in the form of a lump sum. If an AI wants 10 gpt for 30 turns then the lump sum equivalent is 300 gold. Bribing for 10 gpt and DoWing after 10 turns would cheat the AI out of 200 gold.

Fair point. So if when use our-once-per-era-bribe, plan ahead!

…But it is going to take a while to get there and when I do get there I'm sure I won't set the units up properly to take the city in the least number of turns.

I don’t think it has to be the least number of turns. I just try and not screw things up for the next player.

Do I build Armories first…

Yes please.

And actually sometimes, I've tried to do a little of everyone's suggestions and that might actually be worse than taking only one set of suggestions at a time, not sure about that.

I think I agree that doing things half-way is worse than going in a direction that is contrary to what I suggested.

 

[raider980]

First thought is, whoa, Hiawatha is burning 3 cities to the ground; that's unlike him to not want as many cities as can possibly fit on the map. I'll try more bullets too, it is easier to read when there are multiple entries per turn.

T220. Rio finishes RL > Opera House. Cusco almost dead.

Interim. Hiawatha completes Prora. OB to Poca ends, don't renew it.

T221.

• Salvador finishes RL > Amph.
• Bribe Hiawatha to DoW Washy for 450g. A lump sum as it seemed that was most agreeable to everyone. Not sure I'd call it cheap though.
• Take Aristocracy as our SP. I never realized how much of a difference that makes, its a lot of happiness.
• Capture and puppet Cusco.

Interim. Hiawatha offers RA but have to refuse since we will attack him in less than 30 turns.

T222.

• Neuschwanstein is built in Fortaleza > Market, we need money. Salvador finishes Amph > Opera House.
• Trade Sugar to Liz for 240g.
• Capture an archeologist.

Interim. Washy attacks Wittenburg, we cannot forgive.

T223.

• Refrigeration discovered.
• Capture archeologist.
• GS born.
• Scout guarding the antiquity site near Jerusalem is killed.
• Rio builds OH > Museum. Move Cusco GWorks. Fortaleza builds Market > Bank.
• Bulb Electronics, bleeds to Radar.
• Moving troops to Palenque.

Interim. Hiawatha and Maria make peace.

T224. Remove some unnecessary roads. Rio to Madrid caravan.

Interim. Washy attacks Valletta, we cannot forgive. Yomba and Wittenburg captured by Washy.

T225.

• RA is up, discover Radar.
• Salvador finishes OH > Museum. Fortaleza finishes something > Armory. Manuas > Hydro Plant. Brasillia builds RL.
• Renew Spice - Copper trade to Washy.
• Archeologist digs up a cultural site.

Interim. Liz wants an RA but wants too much money for it. Bogota, Antwerp, Yeraven elections rigged.

T226. Ask Washy to joint DoW Pacal. He accepts. Not sure if that was wise but figured it would give us a positive modifier with him and he is not really in a position to take any Mayan cities.

Interim.

• Make peace with Pacha.
• Hiawatha completes Manhattan Project.
• No longer friends with Riga.

T227. Attack Palenque. Upgrade GWB to proper bombers.

Interim. Inca denounce us.

T228. Attacking Palenque. Hmm, Washy has more troops around Mayan lands than I thought. I hope they don't pose a threat to actually take a city.

Interim. Tiawanaku captured by England. The Aztecs are wiped out. We lose several trade deals due to this.

T229. Took a risk and brought Palenque deep into the red. Washy has a Cavalry nearby but I blocked it and I doubt it could take the city anyway.

Interim. Nope, Washy didn't even try to take Palenque. Its ours next turn.

Notes.

• Frigates are heading home while exploring on the way to convert to Battleships.
• Palenque will fall next turn. And Tikal shortly after (I'm assuming we want that too), bombers are in range. I don't think Washy is any danger to take it out from under us.
• I am building military in the most productive cities. And cultural buildings in the cultural/least productive cities.

Spoiler Mayan Front :

Spoiler Home Territory :

 

[Grendeldef]

I understand the frustration and I've gone silent towards the end of a couple of these SGs myself. I still think they're fun though and I find myself more invested in them than solo games. Which causes more frustration when things unexpectedly go awry. This game I did try my best to stay true to the violent CV goal, in my mind I pictured we'd start actually killing things a good 50-60 turns earlier though.

I don't know how to solve the problem of taking these very convoluted paths to victory. Maybe we can set some intermittent goals every 50 turns or so, maybe we can all try to be more vocal, at least about our own sessions and the reasoning behind some of the decisions and what we're setting the next player up for. If anyone sees any has any suggestions on how to make this a smoother experience or thoughts about the current problems, please share them.

I think I'd have started the 2nd front 100 turns earlier just out of boredom if nothing else but I think mine & Beetle's value on Pikes illustrates the problem very well - prefering one unit heavily over another changes, at least from my pov, the whole dynamic of warfare and has a lasting effect of ~200 turns. That's not an issue easily solved in 10 turn stints if at all - there just won't be enough hammers for different type of armies before SBs come & resolve everything.

There're two easy to implement ways _trying_ to resolve the meta issue.

1) appoint a Directional Czar for each game which I'm not too happy about as I'm not at all convinced that it'd solve the issue plus it most likely limits the ways peeps are comfortable playing. Assuming we'll continue playing for long this becomes more tempting and less necessary I'd imagine as playstyles are more likely moving towards than away from each other.
2) pause the game for 48 hrs (or for less if a general path forward is clear) after everyone has played a turn as others have also suggested. This is all good & dandy but probably won't solve the fundamental warfare issue

In short for me the purpose of an early war(s) is to gather xp, steal Workers & pillage Caravans ie get cash to support the units, capping cities is a distant optional extra. The proper war starts when the 2nd ranged CB/XB is available and by then there should also be Spearmen with Cover which are solid enough tanks as those are only really needed the turn after capping a city. Pikes are essential & CS the most important tech in the game. My XBs are usually quite happy until Modern before upgrading and the upgrading always starts with those without Range/Logistics/Cover - the core has at least R & L but most should have Cover 1/2 by now. Double Cover Lancers are fine as flank tanks as they can take few hits from GWBs/Cavalry unless subject to city dmg. That's a ~100 turns of constant shooting from Machinery to Modern, often twice a turn which will result a healthy bunch of GGs during the game. Those can be used bombing the city as long as one has settled close enough to the future pray.So, you can see why I was upset waking up without any ranged in the Theo-game nor do I have much need for the melee line before Plastics excluding Shaka and depending on timing Washy as an opponent.

Going with melee route & Cannons etc is ofc an option but I haven't found it superior to my route hence I keep on using my style. Our issue is not with the chosen path but lack of hammers to do both.

On hindsight I think that I had too much expectations for violent culture as it's a novel concept for some and that doesn't help in an already confusing environment. It was an ambitous target anyway and as I said somewhere earlier it can fail in multiple ways. On the other hand we're cruising to a comfortable VC which is always nice and I can kill stuff now so I'm happy. The succession concept is what it is and excellent as such and if we try to shackle it too much based on something which afterwards looks like a eff up it will lose some of its charm.

 

[beetle]

Mostly I built Market Places, Coliseums, and Castles. A few Barracks and Amphitheaters iff they were one-turn builds.

Pacal will not negotiate peace, and it has been a while. I was checking almost every turn. Anyone know what is up with that? Did we accept a bribe to go to war? I see little value in taking Chichen Itza.

• T230
  • RA w/ Maria matures
  • OB w/ Maria expires, do not renew
  • give POP to La Venta and Singapore since they have conversion questions, and buy a GPr
  • move Spies to Riga and Bogota
  • denounce Washington for Sidon to get Ally status
  • capture and puppet Palenque, only wonder is Porcelain Tower
  • sign RA w/ Liz
  • trade GW to theme museum in Rio
  • bringing Frigates home to get ready for war with Hiawatha
• T231
  • Pocatello wants to DOW Isabella, decline
  • GS spawns
  • ally status w/ Sidon and now they want units, so I gift them one of our two low-xp gats
  • liberating worker from Pacal makes us friends with Yervan, so I cancel the PoP there
  • TR to Vilnius for quest
  • put all-but-one votes against Autocracy as WI, one towards repealing Incense ban
• T232
  • Autocracy as WI fails, and Incense ban repealed as well; so two wins for us!
  • propose Order as WI
  • reassign spies as diplomats
  • Rocketry completes, working on Satellites
  • from others notes, looks like Atomic era GS bulb is available, so GS used for that
  • TR to Cahokia for quest
  • rescue same Yerevan worker again
  • TR in Rio waiting for Combustion to unlock
• T233
  • Satellites unlocked, which claims ruins on island north of map, but it does not show on the map, so I am thinking an AI just pinched it
  • Fortaleza starts on Hubble
  • use GG to steal Iron and Sugar from Washington, and to ensure passage between Palenque and Cusco
  • new GG spawns near end of turn
• T234
  • Hiawatha builds Cristo Redentor in Gowanda, which is conveniently Coastal
  • Sidon gifts us another Berber, just in time
  • last host vote up, which I should have expected from entering Information Age, but I did not
  • pause Hubble for one more Privateer
  • capture and puppet Tikal which has Oracle and GMoD;
  • bringing MG home to Belo Horizonte and Vilnius
• T235
  • we win last WC Host vote, which feels good, but does that do anything for us?
  • Washington completes Manhattan Project
  • Incense (from Tikal) gives WltKD in most cities and pleases a couple CS
  • do 3:1 trade w/ Pocatello for Crab, to get WltKD everywhere else
  • convert La Venta for friend status

• T236
  • Pocatello denounces us
  • loose Lancer to GWI which I was not expecting (last of Pikes, but I swear to @Grendeldef I was not deliberately trying to get him killed!
  • ruin is legit (see thumbnail)
  • trade Isabella resources for Wine; somehow we had one-way Embassy with her, so I put that in the trade
  • sending GPr to Tikal since I do not think he can get to Monaco before the war with Hiawatha

• T237
  • Maria asks “the favor” to denounce Hiawatha, I agree (DOF had expired)
  • Cusco comes out of resistance and wants Dyes, but I am not sure it is worth it; but maybe the turn before we DOW Hiawatha?
  • Isabella declines my DoF offer but we trade for OB
  • Rio starts on GMu Guild; is there a reason that is so late?

• T238
  • Isabella wants to DOW Pachacuti, declined
  • sign OB w/ Maria
  • GS spawns which I save
  • Maria will give us fair gpt to vote against embargo, but it is not worth it
  • Liz is about to take Machu, which would kill off The Inca; we only care because we need his WI vote

• T239
  • Maria begs for Cocoa, I acquiesce
  • Hiawatha uses Citadel to steal our fourth-ring Copper
  • America coup attempt in Florence fails
  • Pocatello plotting against Pachacuti
  • Combustion unlocked, start on Combined Arms
  • expensive bribe to Liz to have her make peace w/ Pachacuti
  • WI vote bribes:
    • reasonably cheap bribe to Pachacuti for his WI vote
    • reasonably cheap bribe to Maria for her WI vote
    • Hiawatha will not vote for Order as WI, but he takes two lux and a resource to vote against Embargoing Maria
    • Washington will not deal, but we have nothing to offer
    • Pocatello will not deal, but we have nothing to offer
  • Move Diplomats to our friends (Spain and England), keep diplomat in Onondaga to pick up intrigue until war starts, put two Spies on counter-intelligence

• T240 interstitial
  • Maria DOWs Isabella
  • Isabella plotting against Pachacuti
  • RA completes, Combined Arms finishes, beakers spill into Penicillin
  • SP pick unlocks

@vadalaz you get set the timing for war with Hiawatha. Do we now have to wait for WI vote, or will he honor the deal anyway? Hubble soon. Natural Golden Age soonish. 5x GA, 3x GW, 1x GS. Two Caravans in Rio for you to assign. Pracina sitting next to Chichen Itza is waiting on a Caravan. Gold is an issue. Finally, I made no citizen assignments, so you will want to check that.

Thumbnails for ruins, core of our empire, and where I setup the frontline for a war with Iroquois. (Close, but hopefully, not too close.)

 

[raider980]

Surprised Pacal doesn't have more wonders. I guess Hiawatha took them all. Can we tell where the wonders are in Iroquois land? I see the PT (or maybe LToP) but my computer's not great so can't see any others among all the clutter. Given our money situation we probably need to be picky about which cities we take right?

Speaking of which, ouch, what happened to our gpt? We're going to need to sell some buildings, use those Great People, delete some workers or something.

How far along is Hubble, do we really need it? Some of those other wonders, World and National, might be better.

 

[vadalaz]

I'm not going to be able to play today or tomorrow so I'll skip this round