Bazaars, Camels and Oil

[vadalaz]

Here we go again. This time we'll be playing Arabia on a Large Shuffle map, Deity difficulty with random AI opponents, most likely going for a Domination victory.

Our provisional roster and turn order is:

vadalaz
beetle
raider980
Nizef
Grendeldef

I think this would work just as well with 6 players, so we have a spot for one more player.

The ruleset we're using, as summed up by @beetle in our previous game:

• No Bees: No bribing AIs into war. No bulbing GMu and GS. No restrictions on other Great People.
  
• No one-way Open Border deals.
  
• No negotiating peace: Peace deals must be accepted as-is.
• No early working stealing: Can DoW AI for worker only after 1st expo planted. No DoWing CS just to steal worker(s).
• No abusing gpt trades: Accept the default offer for resources (typically 1 gpt per resource).
  
• Cap on net total gpt from AIs at 10 gpt per era. Exceptions made on occasion to accept peace offers from AI.

Rules in italics are likely to be adjusted along the way. The idea behind them is to avoid the white peace bug and leeching absurd amounts of gold from AIs.

Map candidates:

Plains Salt (thanks @raider980 !)

Spoiler :

Desert Copper

Spoiler :

Desert Gold

Spoiler :

Desert Rivers (not coastal, but I like the river system)

Spoiler :

Please say which map you like the most and where you'd settle the capital, then we'll be ready to start this game!

 

[Nizef]

Any of the starts look good to me. But just to rank them: 1. Desert Gold, 2. Plain Salt, 3. Desert rivers, 4. Desert Copper. You all know that I am a sucker for Salt starts but maybe, just maybe, a desert start is more in the spirit of Arabia.

 

[beetle]

Wow, nice options! Thanks for setting this up. My first choice is Desert Gold, SIP.

Yes, one or two more players would be even better. 3-day weekend in the States, so @vadalaz please start us in 48 hours or so. Pinging @Shark Diver and @consentient !

The 10-turns per person has been working very well IMHO, but do we want to think about shaking that up? Maybe play until you unlock a tech or SP pick?

 

[raider980]

I would say my choices in order are:
Desert Copper, with moving and settling on the western copper
Desert Gold. SiP.
Desert River. Move once and settle on the Gold.
Plains Salt. This is a start worthy of EDGE but I agree, we should keep with the desert theme; afterall we do have a UA called Ships of the Desert.

Question: What is it about Desert Gold that you all like? I'm wary of having only one unique luxury in view of a start. And there aren't that many floodplains for food. I'm just wondering because both of you picked it I may be missing something. Although, I do tend to like starts and maps differently from most people.

 

[vadalaz]

I really like Desert Rivers, but maybe it's just the most aesthetically pleasing map to me. It does offer tons of food and 1 tile SE or SW looks like a good turn 1 settle. DC and DG are about equal in my book.

The 10-turns per person has been working very well IMHO, but do we want to think about shaking that up? Maybe play until you unlock a tech or SP pick?

I agree it's been working very well, which is why I think we should stick to it.

 

[raider980]

On Desert Rivers there's probably coast not too far away to the SE. It would be like our own Mesopotamia. Only one lux in view again though.

 

[beetle]

I really like Desert Rivers, but maybe it's just the most aesthetically pleasing map to me. It does offer tons of food and 1 tile SE or SW looks like a good turn 1 settle.

DR is my 2nd choice, so I am fine with this map, but SIP or one tile E or NE (to keep Wheat tile in 3rd ring). Move Warrior first of course, E I think.

 

[vadalaz]

I'll start the game on Desert Gold tonight if nothing changes. I think I want to move the warrior to the Gold tile and see if there's an extra sea resource we could connect by settling 1 tile south. If there isn't, SiP.

I'll hold on to the other saves for a little bit, just in case DG turns out to be an island map. It doesn't look like one, but you never know.

 

[Shark Diver]

Wow, nice options! Thanks for setting this up. My first choice is Desert Gold, SIP.

Yes, one or two more players would be even better. 3-day weekend in the States, so @vadalaz please start us in 48 hours or so. Pinging @Shark Diver and @consentient !

The 10-turns per person has been working very well IMHO, but do we want to think about shaking that up? Maybe play until you unlock a tech or SP pick?

I'm going to pass on participating in succession games for my previously stated reasons, but will be watching when I have time.

Consentient joining will guarantee a bloody map. That alone would get me to follow the progress.

 

[vadalaz]

Here we go.

T0: Moved the warrior on the Gold. No additional sea resources unfortunately, so I settled in place. Pottery, Scout.
T4: Tech ruin: Archery.
T5: Found Mt Sinai. Scout done, started another scout.
T6: Met Wu Zeitan. Not the best neighbor, not the worst either.
T8: Met Quebec City. Shanghai is very close to us. I sell embassy to Wu for 1 gpt, maybe she'll send us a trade route. We can buy her embassy later.
T9: Finished Scout, started Settler.
T10: Pottery done, started researching Animal Husbandry. Met Antwerp.

Spoiler Screenshot :

Few luxuries, lots of flat desert and Sinai. We going for Petra here?

 

[raider980]

We going for Petra here?

Hmm, we've got to try right?

Not the most promising map but it does have some positives.

• Shanghai is really really close; luckily there is only flat desert between us.
• At least I'm going to learn how to manage happiness with few luxuries.
• I do see three city locations already so that's good.
• And Mt. Sinai is sweet; I assume that's the reason for the early settler?

 

[beetle]

T011 meet Samarkand (at west edge of map above), and they have barbs, so give PoP
T012 Scout attacks barb archer on camp; ruins upgrades other Scout
T013 very wounded Brute is escorting Wu’s Worker to camp, Scout (wounded) moves to intercept; Warrior finds another barb camp and ruins near Antwerp, gives them PoP
T014 Scout burns level up on heal (since barb camp spawned a fresh Brute), but gets Worker from camp just before Wu would have
T015 ruins gives 90 gold; buy our gold tiles since borders have expanded
T018 buy Wheat tile for best utility from Worker
T019 start researching Mining
T020 Warrior and Scarcher kill camp near Antwerp as Brute spawns — Warrior (Adam) is quite hurt, but he has space to retreat, and Scarcher can take a hit or two

I can’t say I can remember the last time I built a Settler at pop 2. Makes sense here, as now we do not need a Shrine. @raider980, I think you should pump out two more Settlers! I agree with going for Petra. My hit rate for that WW is like 1 in 10 when I try, so I hoping to learn something!

 

[vadalaz]

Good job securing that worker! One request: please post screenshots, that'd make it much easier to follow the game. Here's turn 21:

Spoiler Only one pantheon gone so far, Goddess of Protection. China went Honor :

- Settle on the hill W of Sinai? Buy the sheep tile, secure a pantheon with Sinai first, then grow to pop 2 and work the sheep and Sinai?
- Calendar is a detour from Currency. Stay on 2 cities for a while to start Petra ASAP or expand more and research Calendar?
- Regardless, I'd grow Mecca at least to pop 3 first. A caravan to China would be good, and a second worker too
- Sailing is another detour but it can pay for itself by the time we reach Currency

 

[Grendeldef]

A bit late for the start but if you'll still need/want/accept downward balancing acts I could volunteer myself. Haven't played much lately and not a game on Deity for over a year so I surely am rusty enough on the other hand I'm not known for turning my back to special rules. Helping out or trying to help out a couple lower level gamers here turned me into a solid immortal, huge maps, 12(+) civs player but don't be alarmed - the screwing around force is still strong in me.
I quickly had a glimpse at the rule set and I'd like to implement one as I didn't notice it - no internal food caravans - at least not from lower to higher pop cities. One of my pet dislikes in the game.

 

[vadalaz]

Sure, welcome aboard. Updated turn order (unless anyone wants to swap):

vadalaz
beetle
raider980
Nizef
Grendeldef

There's still a spot for one more player, but I think we should lock the roster when/if we get 6

I quickly had a glimpse at the rule set and I'd like to implement one as I didn't notice it - no internal food caravans - at least not from lower to higher pop cities. One of my pet dislikes in the game.

That works for me. What about internal hammer TRs?

 

[Nizef]

A bit late for the start but if you'll still need/want/accept downward balancing acts I could volunteer myself. Haven't played much lately and not a game on Deity for over a year so I surely am rusty enough on the other hand I'm not known for turning my back to special rules. Helping out or trying to help out a couple lower level gamers here turned me into a solid immortal, huge maps, 12(+) civs player but don't be alarmed - the screwing around force is still strong in me.
I quickly had a glimpse at the rule set and I'd like to implement one as I didn't notice it - no internal food caravans - at least not from lower to higher pop cities. One of my pet dislikes in the game.

Absolutely. Welcome aboard!

 

[beetle]

Welcome @Grendeldef !! — and I love your no-buffing-the-cap-with-TR rule. That is another exploit that I avoid myself.

One request: please post screenshots, that'd make it much easier to follow the game.

Fair enough, and I did consider it. I did’t unfog much, so I didn’t think it necessary.

Settle on the hill W of Sinai?

I was thinking the hill just below Sinai, to unlock Garden. Lock Sinai until we have a religion. Buy Sinai city a Granary as soon as we can (lucky we have Gold as our lux).

How much one can safely detour off the Currency beeline is something I am hoping to learn from this game, so I offer no suggestions to that end!

I am all for growing to pop 3 before the next two settlers. @raider980 iff you do not build a Settler, you need to reassign citizens before hitting next turns, else Mecca will starve down.

 

[Grendeldef]

Sure, welcome aboard. Updated turn order (unless anyone wants to swap):

vadalaz
beetle
raider980
Nizef
Grendeldef

There's still a spot for one more player, but I think we should lock the roster when/if we get 6

If there'll be more than 6 willing participants I can split my turns with other late bloomers - I just like this concept so I'd like to be included.

I haven't checked your general time table but I don't have time to play until Monday (UTC+2) anyway so the last spot atm seems fine.

That works for me. What about internal hammer TRs?

I thought about that, too but it doesn't seem that much of an exploit though that word is a bit harsh nor can I recall anyone much using hammer TRs anyway. I'm fine with any or no rule about hammer caravans. I just really dislike the concept of feeding a high pop city so I'd rather be without the food caravans in binary on/off situation but I'm fine with feeding a lower pop city to help it to grow or run specialists and so on. That's the way it should be in the game or at least limit it to one per city or....I'm getting off the point here.

---edit---

The inner pedantic p&%# of me is already splitting hairs about the OB rule. Is it suppose to be strictly OB for OB or is 50G/2gpt buying/selling either way on the same turn also acceptable? Surely it's niche use at best but still there're scenarios where monetary compensation would be preferable.

 

[raider980]

Welcome @Grendeldef! I'll let others verify that rule for sure but I'm pretty sure we can only do OB for OB. No buying or selling either way. Although I think we can straight up give our OB to someone if they don't want to trade. Like last game we gave Alex OB so he could spread his religion to us.

I'm looking at the T21 map now. This map almost calls for a lot of small cities. The tiles are spread out in such a way that we miss good tiles but its not worth settling a normal city to get it. Like we're going to miss the Flood Plains Wheat tile south of Sinai. Too bad Civ 5 is not made to settle many small cities. Although, I think you did that in one of the EDGE games @vadalez (a Maya one I believe). Do you think its viable here?

Regarding our Sinai city, I was thinking about both of those tiles mentioned. Here's how they break down:

Spoiler Sinai city comparison :

Pretty similar. Each has advantages and disadvantages. What to do what to do. I'll play in a bit.

Edit. I'm also looking up how to rush Petra. What is it important for me to do or not to do in T21-30 so we have the best chance of getting it?

 

[Grendeldef]

My timing is probably way off these days but I used to use Liberty GE for Petra if the location was worth it and did't bother otherwise. The AI likes Petra a lot even just for the extra TR so the likelihood of hard building it is very slim unless all the AIs are missing desert in both their starting cities and even more so if we're supposed to work that Mt. Sinai as well but an early Granary seems mandatory. Still, I'm not opposing to going for it - I like Petra even more than AI does.

I think I'd settle SW for easier and/or cheaper growth especially in case we don't get Petra. In general I don't think that site is worth GE Petra.