New Leaders Spreadsheet

[glider1]

Thanks JP for this!
Cheers

 

[Keejus]

So. Ghandi. Hes got a 12 for "use nuke". Does this imply if you go to war with this guy hes going to use nukes rather liberally?

When you start a game, each score for each leader is modified by a random value from -2 to 2. For example, Gustavus Adolphus has a Friendly bias of 6 and a Deceptive bias of 3, but this could mean that he turns out to be Friendly 4 and Deceptive 5 in one game, and Friendly 8 and Deceptive 1 in another, to add a bit of unpredictability.

What this means for Gandhi is that his lowest possible Nuke bias is 10. If it's more than 10, I think the game rounds it down to 10, anyways, so it's the only truly immutable score.

 

[Seek]

What this means for Gandhi is that his lowest possible Nuke bias is 10. If it's more than 10, I think the game rounds it down to 10, anyways, so it's the only truly immutable score.

But please note, this AFAIK is only rumor/speculation and has not been proven anywhere that I've seen. There's also speculation that any value over 10 gets discounted and is essentially 0 (thereby giving Gandhi an extremely unpredictable nuke bias) - again, though, I haven't seen proof.

 

[blackcatatonic]

The man was one of the greatest tacticians who ever lived and is widely known as "The Father of Modern Warfare". You expected him not to live up to that?

My state of puzzlement was more brought on by the practical concern of his UA being entirely about maintaining friendly relationships with other Civs rather than him as a historical character, which, let's face it, isn't always prioritised by the developers. Besides which, there's a difference between being a great tactician and being as bloodthirsty as high war-flavour AIs have a habit of being. But I will freely admit I know nothing about him whatsoever.

Having seen him in one game now, he definitely seems to be about as aggressive as Monty on an average day. It didn't do him much good though

 

[WeneedmoreCivs]

Hello, fanatics.

If anybody is interested, I updated my old spreadsheet. All the data is verified and updated as of Gods and Kings version 1.0.1.674. All the new leaders are included.

I hope those that download it like it and find it useful.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17324
The zip folder includes an Excel 2010 file, a file saved as an older Excel version, and an image for those without Excel.

EDIT: The file is still waiting to be verified by the site's moderators. Here's another place to get the zip folder:
http://www.filedropper.com/civ5leadersspreadsheet
(Note: don't click on the green "Download" button, I think it's an ad. Instead, click on the gray button "Download this file" which is further down. )



Also, since the last time I edited it (a year ago), a bunch of the existing Civ Approach Biases towards War and Deception have been lessened, as well as some lessening of Religion flavors to further differentiate the leaders. I assume they were changed in Gods and Kings.

Civ Approach Bias War: Kamehameha -2, Pachacuti -2, Alexander -1, Bismark -1, Elizabeth -1, Gandhi -1, Isabella -1, Ramkhamhaeng -1, Suleiman -1, Washington -1

Civ Approach Bias Deceptive: Hiawatha -2, Washington -2, Askia -1, Augustus -1, Harald -1, Harun -1, Isabella -1, Oda -1, Pachacuti -1, Ramkhamhaeng -1

Flavor Religion: Bismark -2, Darius -2, Augustus -1, Napoleon -1, Oda -1

Really? You're far too cool for school...
This is an awesome list. I used your amazing list to make my own list:
The first number is "Conquest style"...essentially a rating showing who is best for conquest games. The second number is "Dan Style", or the style which best caters to my style of play, which is usually tailored towards peaceful growth and expansion until my science is way better than everyone else so I can conquer the world without many casualities.
47 47 ALEX
52 50 ASKIA
52 45 ATTILA
44 47 AUGUST
50 47 BISMRK
46 50 BOUDI
44 53 CATHY
40 51 DARIUS
52 45 DIDO
53 53 ELIZ
37 56 GANDHI
55 44 GENG
47 50 GUSTAV
53 46 HARALD
43 56 HARUN
38 53 HIAWA
52 48 ISABEL
50 44 KAMEH
42 53 MARIA
44 48 MONTY
49 46 NAPOLE
48 54 NEBU
53 46 ODA
42 54 PACAL
47 52 PACHA
41 57 RAMESS
39 50 RAMKM
48 54 SEJONG
39 51 SELASS
57 46 SULEI
44 54 THEO
51 48 WASH
48 46 WILL
44 56 WU

So based on the average rating and standard deviation, the following 10 are my top 10 civs to use...the funny thing is that I basically have only used Sejong more than once. It seems as though Elizabeth is the best one for me!
ELIZ
SULEI
ASKIA
NEBU
SEJONG
ISABEL
WU
WASH
PACHA
HARALD

 

[Halcyan2]

Hi. I love the new spreadsheet.

I wanted to doublecheck one of the values though. Attila is listed with a Wonder Trait of "5". Is that right? (One would think that he would be a 3, along with Genghis and other warmongers).

In addition, the "5" is highlighted green when only 3's and 4's in the column are highlighted (there are other 5's in that row but none of those are highlighted) which makes me suspect he is really a 3 or 4.

Thanks for checking.

 

[glider1]

Yeah I agree I refer to it all the time. Here is the path to Attila's XML and yes the spreadsheet is correct. It's not a trait but a "flavor". A flavor is a term used to indicate the AI build priorities.

<Row> <LeaderType>LEADER_ATTILA</LeaderType> <FlavorType>FLAVOR_WONDER</FlavorType> <Flavor>5</Flavor> </Row>

C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\common\sid meier's civilization v\assets\DLC\Expansion\Gameplay\XML\Leaders

Cheers

 

[Halcyan2]

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm a bit surprised by it. In any case, the next version of the spreadsheet should probably remove the green coloring for that value (Attila's wonder flavor)..

 

[Colonel Travis]

Love this but since I'm new to this place, how were the numbers determined?

 

[glider1]

The game itself is built upon variables that are stored in XML that you can read with notepad if you know where to find it. The original numbers were determined by experimentation as the developers developed the game. It is possible to change the XML but is normally best done in a "mod" instead of fiddling with the base game itself.

Cheers

 

[Colonel Travis]

Understood - thanks glider.

 

[bcaiko]

This is very awesome. Thanks!

 

[Dulahey]

I would recommend freeze framing.

(For Excel 2010)
Click on cell D4, then at the top go to the View tab and click Freeze Panes. A drop down menu will appear; click on Freeze Panes again. Now you can move around on the spreadsheet while always being able to see the Civ's at the top and the subject matter on the left.

 

[zan_laurin]

I made this "one glance" chart back in October 2011, your post reminded me that I should update it for the expansion .
It's up to date with the latest patch, works with excel 2010 only at the moment, sorry.



There's a version for Libre office, Excel 2007 and Excel 2003. will update those as well as soon as I have some time

Meanwhile I'm making this public in case it's useful to anyone.

Download from Mediafire
Download from CivFanatics - Soon

 

[Barathor]

Halcyan, thanks. I've fixed that and it will be displayed correctly once a new patch comes out and I reupload the file.

Dulahey, that's awesome, thanks! I love learning new tricks (especially when they're that easy). Perhaps, I'll remove the extra cells (like the 2nd row of icons at the bottom) and I'll make a note of this viewing technique.

zan, nicely done!

---------

Also, I wasn't aware of any type of rounding-down to 10, and that it's a max. First time I've heard that.

There's actually a value in GlobalAIDefines which says the max is 20. (Though, this doesn't necessarily disprove the above.)

PERSONALITY_FLAVOR_MAX_VALUE = 20

Also, if you want to decrease or increase the randomization there's this one too:

FLAVOR_RANDOMIZATION_RANGE = 2

 

[Colonel Travis]

Both these are very helpful - thanks.

Why did they make Gandhi off-the-charts for nukes? Indira Gandhi cranked up their nuclear program, not Mohandas, but they aren't close (presumably) to the production of the Non-Proliferation countries, or even countries with power plants. In the game I've always wiped out India so I've never seen them get to that point, but even if it's to balance out their relative passiveness, I still think it's overboard. Has anyone here ever suffered from their wrath? Do they actually become warmongers at the very end?

 

[glider1]

Yes Ghandi is a late game nuker. The idea is that you need civs to stir up the pot lest the game becomes stale. Remember that unfortunately the game confuses the two "Ghandi's" that led India in the real world.

That said, thanks to this wonderful resource, I am experimenting with an alternative idea to "stirring up the pot". It turns out, that if you set every single value in the table mid-range so that there is no variation between leaders at all except for trait and geographical location, you counter intuitively still get a varied game but without the predictability of the leaders behaving in the same way.....The fact that the traits don't match the personality any more is actually not a serious drawback in practice. The AI's become more "adaptable" and "flexible".

By setting the leaders values all the same, it both gives a "random personality option" feel to the game, but also allows you to "tweak" those aspects of personality that the AI is most competent at....Of course, this idea is not applicable to the base game, because most people want their leaders to have individualized personalities for the sake of role playing and an attempt to "tune" the leader to trait.

Cheers

 

[Yzman]

Very nice work.

 

[Ribusprissin]

It was in some other threads, but basically Gandhi was originally programmed with a twelve instead of two as a typo in Civ 1, and he has remained such as an easter egg.

 

[headcase]

You. Are. AWESOME! Thanks a lot for the sreadsheet

It was in some other threads, but basically Gandhi was originally programmed with a twelve instead of two as a typo in Civ 1, and he has remained such as an easter egg.

Really? I thought they were all totally random (just that people remembered Gandhi the most because of how out-of-character it is). Either way, basically the same result; it became a meme and Firaxis is sticking with it.