Banks/groceries

F

Fluxx

Mr. Almost There
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
635
The big question here is do you actually build these, and how many of these do you build.

Lately I always get annoyed by these buildings. Lets say I got 10 cities. At average I will have 1 GP farm, 2/3 prod cities, rest hammervoid commerce heavy cities.

Now the thing is will you actually build these 2 buildings in your commerce cities? On epic it aint unusual to see 40-60 turns on building one of these badboys. At the same I will be running either Caste System OR emancipation around those times.

So not only am I forced to switch into slavery, if I start whipping those things, it will at average still cost me 20-30 turns to whip both of them, and I will loose alot of population/commerce time in these periods.

Is it really worth it?
Also is the best way to overcome this going US? Note I am not a fervent supporter of US, most often I like to be in Rep most of the time, since I will have often Statue of Liberty/decent amount of cities which run 1 or 2 specialists.
 
Depends heavily on your economic setup.

My economies tend to be rather extreme - I want to get the most of my civic choices. If I cover the world in cottages, rushbuy becomes a viable alternative to regular production; here, the ability to get +100% modifiers for gold while production will be at a measly +25% is invaluable.
Under those circumstances, a village on rushbuy will beat a pre-railroad mine in terms of production; a town with the appropriate civics will have more than twice the effective output.
Sometimes I put off industrialisation for a long, long time in these games since the hammer gains are not worth the health trouble outside my Heroic Epic and Ironworks cities.


As how to get them... I usually use rushbuy. Yes, you're using your output inefficiently for a few turns (100% gold before you have all the multipliers) but it gets better soon and you aren't working inferior tiles/whipping away cottages. If possibly, I try to get the process started with a Great Merchant.

*

In other games, I build very few of them... if a single gold city pays most of my bills, I might have better things to build elsewhere.
 
Very rarely build these, but it depends on your targetted VC (game length). Grocers can be good for health, but banks especially are really expensive. I generally skip them completely and aim to keep my science slider as high as possible instead -- it depends on how long I expect the game to last. You can obtain gold producing wealth, capturing cities, trade missions and more. The downside is no Wall Street, but unless you have a religion (or plan to found a corporation) it's hard to justify all the hammers you sink into it. Producing wealth with workshops and good production modifiers allows you to use science buildings only.

Space Race: Maybe.
Early Domination/Conquest: No.
 
I usually build a ton of both of these buildings. Around the time Guilds and Banking is researched I'm running at less than 50% science to maintain a positive income, thus (if building costs were equal) a 25% Gold building will help out my empire more than a 25% Science building. And a 50% Gold building is an amazing addition to my commerce cities. I tend to build very large empires, where I have many commerce cities and only a few military cities, thus Grocers and Banks become very plentiful in my empires. I almost never have to build extra Banks to build my Wall Street.
 
I usually like banks.

Banks, well you need then to build the Wall Street at the very least. Wall street usually implies you are going for corporations and that means most likely sushi which opens for groceries. I do stay in slavery and capture/build Kremlin. Building anything under slavery w/ sushi/Kremlin is just a joke.

Like stated banks are good if you expand heavily b/c you need a sort of fix up.
If you go for state property, you can still build banks w/ the caste workshops and they do pay off.
 
Grocers go in cities when I can afford to build them (or ASAP in shrine cities) because they fix health issues in production cities or GP farms, and they multiply gold in commerce cities. Both are really nice things to have, but not imperative at the time they become available (like, say, a library would be really early.)

Banks, only in really good commerce cites, shrine cities, and sometimes in borderline cities to reach the Wall Street quota. Wall Street is usually very important for the way I run my games.
 
I get ass-line and democracy at around the same time and find that with towns and forges I can get a factory up in reasonable time with a bit of rush buy to finish. After that the grocer is needed for health and it comes in quick as all my towns have hammers. Banks come in to coincide with sushi/mining for my wall street city.
 
Found a religion early and spread it. You'll want wall street in this city.
 
It all depends on victory conditions and time frame: If I'm aiming for space and need to keep tech/commerce high they get built. If I'm already on my way to Domination I'm often already in a blood-rage by the time banks are available and I'm building only things that kill. Grocers come into play mostly for health rather than wealth.
 
If you have a pure commerce city, what else are you trying to build in them that are more important than commerce multiplying buildings?
 
Fetch said:
If you have a pure commerce city, what else are you trying to build in them that are more important than commerce multiplying buildings?
Click to expand...

research/health/happyness/espionage building or /jails/courthouses/harbors?
 
Wall street usually implies you are going for corporations and that means most likely sushi which opens for groceries.
Click to expand...
I build Wall Street in 95% of my games, yet have only founded corporations in about 10% of them. Corporations are definitely boosted by Wall Street, but building WS does not imply that you'll be founding a corp. Simply having a strong Holy City or a city with food for mass merchants is good enough reason.

As for banks/grocers, any city that has tons of cottages, settled GM, or shrine (or the rare corporation) gets a bank in my games. I usually use Grocers mainly to manage :health:. The :gold: multiplier is specifically targeted in my WS city as well as any cities running merchants and heavy cottage cities (I use binary research).
 
Courthouses and forges i can see, but Factory/Power building isn't really necessary to sink all those :hammers: into. I vote spies / suicide siege after Courthouse/forge and :gold:/:science: multipliers for commerce cities.
 
blitzkrieg1980 said:
I build Wall Street in 95% of my games, yet have only founded corporations in about 10% of them. Corporations are definitely boosted by Wall Street, but building WS does not imply that you'll be founding a corp. Simply having a strong Holy City or a city with food for mass merchants is good enough reason.
Click to expand...
I either finish (abandon if deem it finished also counts) the game w/ massing units [cav and/or rifle/cannon or cav/artillery +- air ships ) and not researching or build at least one corp. if I am to go past Wall Street. Most of games I straight go for sushi if i have great merchant available or good farm to run solely merchants.
Wall Street in GP farm is also a good option w/o any corporation but like I said: I go for them. Sushi/creative constructions enable one of the easiest (and laziest which is good) ends by culture and one doesn't even need to touch the slider.

Actually corporations are not merely boosted by the Wall Street, Wall Street is an absolute necessity to run them properly.
 
Actually corporations are not merely boosted by the Wall Street, Wall Street is an absolute necessity to run them properly.
Click to expand...
Eh... Mining Inc. with Market/bank/grocer does fine for me with no Wall Street. I've done this in 2 of my games. Why? I was on the last leg of Space victory and didn't want to wait for the Wall Street city (week :hammers:) to get out the Executive. Founded in my Ironworks city, 3 turns = 3 executives, put them in my 3 other parts building centers and cruised to a finish ;) Very niche situation, though. Corps + WS ftw for sure
 
Fetch said:
If you have a pure commerce city, what else are you trying to build in them that are more important than commerce multiplying buildings?
Click to expand...

While it depends on your econ setup, generally a commerce city is exists for producing research... not gold, as counterintuitive as that sounds.
 
I build groceries if I need the health. I rarely find myself building wealth modifiers.
 
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