1.16 released

Xyth · Jan 8, 2012

Howard Mahler said:
2. Look into ways for players to adjust science speed of their game (don't know if latest release includes this.) (Even with the new speeds, I think this would be a worthwhile addition.)

The way I was hoping to do it (via variations of Gamespeeds) didn't work due to there being a maximum number of gamespeeds/difficulty levels displayable in the UI. I'll look into other options.

3. Review again strength of naval units. (I know you made some changes. I am not sure if you had a chance to look at my suggestions.)

I meant to before releasing 1.16, but I forgot to after I got back from camping. Will definitely take a look for 1.17.

4. Review last portion of the tech tree for possible additions and revisions.

6. Review random events, particularly quests. (Probably a longer term project.)

These aren't high priority at the moment but definitely need to be looked at before too long.

Everything else is on my todo list. My first priority for 1.17 (other than bug and balance fixes of course) is a unit art update and optimization pass. I haven't done one of these for a long time and there's a fair bit of new or improved art I've been meaning to use for some time now. I might finally take a look at Corporations too.

Xyth · Jan 8, 2012

wanderm said:
It worked! Thank you so much for seeking this out. A crowded map is the way to play Civ IMHO, and HR already ticks so many other boxes!

It is a pity it's only for Windows.

For the record, I needed only the DLL file from the download, placed in the HR "Assets" folder.

Glad to hear it worked! I'll add it to the FAQ in case anyone else is looking for something similar.

Mr. Sulu · Jan 8, 2012

It worked! I used the Unarchiver and re-downloaded it and it's working fine. Thank you very much for all of your help. If you didn't notice I've put a link to your mod in my signature

.

Mr. Sulu · Jan 8, 2012

By the way, I decided to try out the mod and when I built the Brandenburg Gate and there was no video, all it said was "No GP icon for Unit 5".

Xyth · Jan 8, 2012

Mr. Sulu said:
It worked! I used the Unarchiver and re-downloaded it and it's working fine. Thank you very much for all of your help. If you didn't notice I've put a link to your mod in my signature.

Excellent! And thanks for the mention in your signature

Mr. Sulu said:
By the way, I decided to try out the mod and when I built the Brandenburg Gate and there was no video, all it said was "No GP icon for Unit 5".

Hmm, I thought I'd fixed the new wonder movies on Mac. I'll look into it.

wanderm · Jan 9, 2012

Xyth said:
I don't know how much of an effect adding more civs will have. BTS loads much of it's graphics in advance (which is part of the problem) so in theory it shouldn't matter what civ all those graphics belong to, just the quantity. In practice... well, I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

I'll reserve this spot to advertise just that. I intend that, in time, my progress will be of interest.

Size: Massive. AI Civs: 28.
Barbarians: Rampaging.

Turn: 377/600.
Stable (occasional slowdown with leader animation) (Savegame: 3,056 KB).
Approx 72 seconds turn lag.

davidtylr · Jan 9, 2012

crash

I got onto custom game.
Leader, victoria
speed, quick
map, Fractal
coast, X3 extra reefs
barbarians off
fewer religions
clicked OK crashed straight away.

Got this message

I can send you a detail report if you want.

I'll try it again and see what happens.

wanderm · Jan 9, 2012

Nasser has no script for demanding tribute as equal power.

Xyth · Jan 9, 2012

davidtylr said:
I can send you a detail report if you want.

I'll try it again and see what happens.

That would be good, especially if it happens again.

wanderm said:
Nasser has no script for demanding tribute as equal power.

Looks like all three of his demand tribute scripts are mistagged. Fixed for 1.17, thanks!

davidtylr · Jan 10, 2012

It keeps happening with the custom game. Tried all different types of civ leaders and options. The play now option works good.

Xyth · Jan 10, 2012

davidtylr said:
It keeps happening with the custom game. Tried all different types of civ leaders and options. The play now option works good.

Curious. I've been able to launch custom games without issue, it must be some particular combination of options. Could you post the crash report? I only need the top two sections: the 'Thread 0' block and everything above it.

davidtylr · Jan 11, 2012

Xyth said:
Curious. I've been able to launch custom games without issue, it must be some particular combination of options. Could you post the crash report? I only need the top two sections: the 'Thread 0' block and everything above it.

I played it in play now It crashed in the middle of the game.

This is the first time it crashed on custom game.

Spoiler :

Xyth · Jan 11, 2012

davidtylr said:
This is the first time it crashed on custom game.

Hmm that looks like something that's fixable, if I can figure out what caused it. A few questions:

• What mapsize and difficulty level were you trying to play?
• At what point exactly is it crashing? When you press 'Launch!', while the map is generating, or after the map has generated (roughly how many turns in)?

davidtylr said:
I played it in play now It crashed in the middle of the game.

That's probably a separate issue. Please post the crash report for that one too, same two sections. You should be able to find all your crash reports in the Console app.

Also, I notice that you are still running 3.17. You need to upgrade to 3.19, running HR on 3.17 could potentially be causing minor incompatibilities that I won't be able to reproduce or solve.

davidtylr · Jan 11, 2012

Xyth said:
Hmm that looks like something that's fixable, if I can figure out what caused it. A few questions:

• What mapsize and difficulty level were you trying to play?
• At what point exactly is it crashing? When you press 'Launch!', while the map is generating, or after the map has generated (roughly how many turns in)?

That's probably a separate issue. Please post the crash report for that one too, same two sections. You should be able to find all your crash reports in the Console app.

Also, I notice that you are still running 3.17. You need to upgrade to 3.19, running HR on 3.17 could potentially be causing minor incompatibilities that I won't be able to reproduce or solve.

That report the map size is massive. The difficulty was on chieftain. I tried it on small map size. same thing. It crashes as soon as i click launch. No loading screen.

I will upgrade it to see if it works. Thanks for your help.

This is the later one. I don't know the year but this crashed around the start of the medieval era.

Spoiler :

Updated the game and no problems. I feel silly now. Thanks for your patients Xyth.

atirtanadi · Jan 11, 2012

Thanks for all your work on this great mod - but I wanted to say that in the latest version, I really don't like having stone be a prerequisite to building paved roads. Regular roads no longer give you the movement bonus, and if you are playing on a smaller map, it seems like only 1 out of 3 or 4 civilizations will have stone, which gives them a huge military advantage. It's also anti-fun to be a human player without access to stone, and having it take 10 turns or more for units to cross your empire...making it very difficult to respond to surprise invasions. Maybe consider making paved roads cost less if you have stone, or taking less time to build?

Xyth · Jan 11, 2012

davidtylr said:
Updated the game and no problems. I feel silly now. Thanks for your patients Xyth.

I'm glad we solved it. Please let me know if you have any further issues.

atirtanadi said:
Thanks for all your work on this great mod - but I wanted to say that in the latest version, I really don't like having stone be a prerequisite to building paved roads. Regular roads no longer give you the movement bonus, and if you are playing on a smaller map, it seems like only 1 out of 3 or 4 civilizations will have stone, which gives them a huge military advantage. It's also anti-fun to be a human player without access to stone, and having it take 10 turns or more for units to cross your empire...making it very difficult to respond to surprise invasions.

Hmm, Stone should not be that rare. I've set it to be considerably more common and evenly distributed than it is in BTS. Which maptype are you playing on? I'll investigate.

Maybe consider making paved roads cost less if you have stone, or taking less time to build?

These are good ideas but technically challenging to implement. If I can't solve the issue by better distribution of Stone I'll definitely look into them though. Thanks for the feedback!

Incidentally, how are people finding routes having a gold cost to build? Too restrictive? Too trivial? I want the building of routes to be a bit more considered than just spamming them everywhere by default, but at the same time I don't want this change (or any other change to the route system) to make things frustrating.

Simon_Jester · Jan 12, 2012

Stone deposits on the map really should represent high quality building stone- and you can build paved roads out of bricks, or random hunks of slate, or rounded rocks dug out of a riverbed. Good building stone shouldn't be a precondition, IMO...

EDIT: I mean, theoretically you'd think that everyone would need access to metal weapons to equip war elephants, it's kind of unrealistic that you'd have elephant cavalry using flint-tipped weapons in real life... but there's not really any good reason to make elephant units depend on metal deposits, so we don't. It's just assumed that while only certain places on the map have high quality metal in large quantities, you can dig up low-grade iron ore pretty much anywhere you like and not be restricted to throwing rocks at people.

Same argument- your civilization can make masonry buildings out of... something, even build big honking city walls and theoretically giant pyramids, without top-quality building stone. Paving roads requires, if anything, a lower grade of building material than city walls do.

Keinpferd · Jan 12, 2012

Xyth said:
Incidentally, how are people finding routes having a gold cost to build? Too restrictive? Too trivial? I want the building of routes to be a bit more considered than just spamming them everywhere by default, but at the same time I don't want this change (or any other change to the route system) to make things frustrating.

Clearly yes, roads should cost money. (But it's probably hoping too much, that the AI will stop the bad habit of street spamming because of this.)

Xyth · Jan 12, 2012

Simon_Jester said:
Stone deposits on the map really should represent high quality building stone- and you can build paved roads out of bricks, or random hunks of slate, or rounded rocks dug out of a riverbed. Good building stone shouldn't be a precondition, IMO...

Yeah I'm certainly not adding that requirement for any strict engineering or historical necessity. I feel that a resource requirement for paved roads is an appropriate game mechanic that fits in well with some other design choices. After all, Highways certainly don't need Rubber but it is a nice way to tie in an otherwise underutilized resource. However, if it ends up being more frustrating than interesting then it's not a big deal to remove it altogether.

Same argument- your civilization can make masonry buildings out of... something, even build big honking city walls and theoretically giant pyramids, without top-quality building stone. Paving roads requires, if anything, a lower grade of building material than city walls do.

I guess a lot of such masonry could theoretically be made from brick but, regardless, I agree that the Stone resource represents a high quality source rather than the only source.

Keinpferd said:
Clearly yes, roads should cost money. (But it's probably hoping too much, that the AI will stop the bad habit of street spamming because of this.)

Yeah its certainly not going to eliminate road spam but it does seem to reduce it a little in some of my tests, at least for the more expensive routes. The costs in 1.16 are low (1g for Road, 2g for Paved Roads, 3g for Railroad and Highways) so the effect isn't very pronounced but I thought it would be better to be cautious in case the AI struggles to understand it.

Robuzon · Jan 12, 2012

Xyth said:
Xyth said:

Yeah I'm certainly not adding that requirement for any strict engineering or historical necessity. I feel that a resource requirement for paved roads is an appropriate game mechanic that fits in well with some other design choices. After all, Highways certainly don't need Rubber but it is a nice way to tie in an otherwise underutilized resource. However, if it ends up being more frustrating than interesting then it's not a big deal to remove it altogether.

I guess a lot of such masonry could theoretically be made from brick but, regardless, I agree that the Stone resource represents a high quality source rather than the only source.

Click to expand...

I've found the Stone requirement to be somewhat of a pain also. It slows down continent-focused maps a lot, and makes redeploying early militaries really tedious and slow. Is it possible to provide a road movement bonus for possessing Stone? Perhaps 1/3 movement for basic roads and 1/4 if one has Stone?

1.16 released

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