wanderm
Chieftain
Akbar also is missing some text: I think initial script when slightly negatively disposed.
1.16 released
- Thread starter Xyth
- Start date
Akbar also is missing some text: I think initial script when slightly negatively disposed.
Fixed, along with a couple other of his, for 1.17. Thanks!
great mod. I play europe 90x90 emperor/saga all the time.
some suggestions: reduce inflation rate significantly. add more european religions like protestantism+orthodoxy and rename christianity to catholicism if you do this.
also I have an important question, how can I remove the interest cap of 10 gold for every era? (i want 1% of any amount at any given time).
also I think that the civic "agriculturalism" is far better than others
looking forward to 1.17
some suggestions: reduce inflation rate significantly. add more european religions like protestantism+orthodoxy and rename christianity to catholicism if you do this.
also I have an important question, how can I remove the interest cap of 10 gold for every era? (i want 1% of any amount at any given time).
also I think that the civic "agriculturalism" is far better than others
looking forward to 1.17
Simon_Jester
Prince
- Joined
- May 13, 2011
- Messages
- 495
Artyom, part of the point of the exercise for History Rewritten is to increase the diversity of cultures represented in the game. Adding several variations on Christianity as separate religions in the mod tends to work against that.
Question: does the inflation rate scale down for longer game lengths? If not, it would tend to become really noticeable, crippling even, for games that run up towards the 2000-turn size of some of our longer games.
Question: does the inflation rate scale down for longer game lengths? If not, it would tend to become really noticeable, crippling even, for games that run up towards the 2000-turn size of some of our longer games.
as far as religions, there are religions in the game most of us have never heard of and never will and its under question if most of those "religions" could even be considered religions. also, if one was to play this game in a big real world map, almost all of the civs except the european ones could be represented by unique and historically correct religions that the game has.
regarding inflation, I may be the only one experiencing it because I dont see anyone posting about it and I doubt the game is playable with this inflation rate. my first game was with vikings/saga/emperor and by like turn 350 (like 200 AD) my inflation was over 180 gold per turn with about 18 cities. inflation rate was like 60%, which can be compared to late soviet russian inflation before it collapsed. worst thing is, the crap keeps increasing faster than my economy. It may not be game breaking but very annoying so I deleted all the inflation and raised tech cost by 50% and the game is much better now from my point of view.
if anyone knows where and how to edit the compound interest of the financial trait to make it unlimited and not depend upon era please post here, I will be most grateful
regarding inflation, I may be the only one experiencing it because I dont see anyone posting about it and I doubt the game is playable with this inflation rate. my first game was with vikings/saga/emperor and by like turn 350 (like 200 AD) my inflation was over 180 gold per turn with about 18 cities. inflation rate was like 60%, which can be compared to late soviet russian inflation before it collapsed. worst thing is, the crap keeps increasing faster than my economy. It may not be game breaking but very annoying so I deleted all the inflation and raised tech cost by 50% and the game is much better now from my point of view.
if anyone knows where and how to edit the compound interest of the financial trait to make it unlimited and not depend upon era please post here, I will be most grateful
wanderm
Chieftain
Can I suggest going back to considering the religion mechanic as broad and abstract? To be fair I have only founded "Christianity", "Islam", "Judaism" and "Taoism" in my experience, as the symbols are recognisable... whatever the choice it has no affect on gameplay. Other mods certainly differentiate, but it isn't my preference.
Is there a way to combat it? I like it as a mechanic, but can see how it gets annoying. Even on "Prince" level I have some problems with relative military force.
I adjusted the rate of inflation for each gamespeed as part of the wider gamespeed changes in 1.16. It's entirely possible that they've ended up too severe or scaling strangely. I'll take a look.
I don't wish to include the different denominations of Christianity in HR, nor of any of the other world religions. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and (to a lesser degree) Baalism are all branches (or precursors) of the same religious tradition as it is. The point is that, had history been different, world religions could have emerged from other religious traditions from other parts of the world and we'd have a whole different set of denominations and factions today. So I consider that HR does have several European religions: Olympianism, Druidism, Asatru. Had these not been supplanted by religions from the Middle East they might have developed more and spread further. Or Zorastrianism may never have been suppressed and rose to world dominance. Or the Mayans may have sent their missionaries on ships to the 'Old World' seeking converts. Etc.
It's coded in CvEventManager.py. Search for 'interest'. Now that I've made the number of interest payments scale properly with gamespeed I'm debating whether to just remove the cap completely (or at least raise it). When and how often are you hitting the interest cap?
wanderm
Chieftain
My current game I founded "Shinto"... nearly forgot.
I'd be interested as to whether this was to rebalance any "accidents of geography" that underline the geographical determinism theory of human evolution?
(For the record I am religious, in case I sound like I'm slighting particular denominations).
thanks alot Xyth. I hit the cap on europe 90x90 depending on the era. so at first era i cant make any more than 10 gold every 3 or 4 turns. second era would be 20 gold. and so on. the concept of interest on money you have is awesome, and may lead to a totally different play strategy. the issue I had with this is that on europe 90x90 map, 10 or 20 or even 100 gold during late era every 3-4 turns is nothing. I think there should not be a cap on interest. this would not be OP at all considering the amount of investments you have to make over a long period of game time to make decent interest income. For example, on the 90x90 europe map, one could get 100,000 gold by the industrial age while still spending most on research. that would be 1000 interest or 250 per turn on saga speed before industrial age. a usual economy, however, would be at like at least 2000 research points per turn if you have around 25 cities and a few wonders. so, 250 per turn may sound big, but compared to the much bigger economy one would have at that time and the huge opportunity cost you impaired yourself with by putting off money instead of spending it on research, military upkeep and conquests, the choice to save money to get interest off of it is probably self detrimental in the settings I play even if there was no cap. its a great flavor choice though. and iam off to play for the financial victoria.....
(also, can you edit the 90x90 europe map a bit in the next version? it doesnt have some of the resources like peat or elephants and the polish dont have a strating position or smth. the hungarians position is overpowered, and the greeks are the weakest and rarely make it through the first era. the russians start in estonia and the mongols start in russia... england should be enlarged or have more resources, and the byzantine first city "constantinople" is arguably the worst starting city one could get, both in beginning and at the end of the game. and can you add in an austrian civ?)
(also, can you edit the 90x90 europe map a bit in the next version? it doesnt have some of the resources like peat or elephants and the polish dont have a strating position or smth. the hungarians position is overpowered, and the greeks are the weakest and rarely make it through the first era. the russians start in estonia and the mongols start in russia... england should be enlarged or have more resources, and the byzantine first city "constantinople" is arguably the worst starting city one could get, both in beginning and at the end of the game. and can you add in an austrian civ?)
Simon_Jester
Prince
- Joined
- May 13, 2011
- Messages
- 495
Nonsense. I've heard of every one of those religions, or could place it immediately once I translated the native term (i.e. I did not know the Aztec word for the Aztec religion until HR).
All of them were religions, by the standards that we apply to the religions of the main game- if Hinduism is a religion, so is the worship of the Greek or Norse gods, or Celtic druidism. If Taoism is a religion, so is Shinto or Voudun. It stands to reason.
I approve of the HR religion mechanics, and do not think we should start replacing the diversity of beliefs it represents by different sects of Christianity which are different for reasons that only seem to matter to Christian theologians.
I mean, if we start subdividing Christianity, we should subdivide Islam- which has at least three significant branches- and probably Hinduism- which has so many we'd never be done.
Yes, because the European civilizations share much more of a common heritage than most others in the game. Spain and France are not nearly as culturally distinct as, say, the Aztecs and the Assyrians. So it's not unreasonable that many of the 'European' cultures share a religion.
For that matter, a number of other cultures share religions: Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Annunaki (ancient Mesopotamian religion) come to mind. There are fifty civilizations and eighteen religions; of course there's overlap.
In terms of actual history or in terms of gameplay?
I'm definitely prepared to try removing the cap for 1.17 and see how it plays out. My main worry is that Financial becomes too strong on the easier difficulty levels, relative to the other traits. But if that happens I could just make the cap higher and scale with difficulty level as well.
I'll wait and see if anyone else has feedback on it before making a final call though. Others may have a different experience on different settings.
All of the maps are quite out of date unfortunately and don't include any of the terrain and resource changes. All the maps are made by other people and, other than assigning the starting locations, I've not changed them at all. I keep putting it off because it's not an area of modding I'm very familiar with but I really need to get on to it. My todo list for 1.17 is pretty full, but I think I'll make it top priority for 1.18.
Poland and Russia are easy fixes though, I'll get those done for 1.17. I'm surprised the Mongols are on that map at all, I'll remove them. Austria is not a high priority addition sorry; HR is nearing the practical limit of civilizations and leaders, and since Europe is already well represented there are civilizations from other parts of the world I'd like to add first. I also consider Austria to be represented pretty well by the German civilization (which has been expanded to include the HRE).
Actually as far as I can tell the Aztecs didn't have a specific word for their religion. The closest seems to be Teotl, which is a word described a central aspect of their beliefs. I've seen this used by a few mods. Toltecayotl simultaneously means 'legacy/knowledge of the Toltecs' and 'the arts of living'. It's now believed by many modern archaeologists that the Toltecs were never a specific people or culture, but rather a philosophical/cultural construct that mythologized the Mesoamericans' own past. Much like how the Classical Greeks mythologized their Mycenaean ancestors. The reason I chose Toltecayotl as the name of the religion in HR is that the Toltec mythos was common to both the Aztecs and Mayans, while Teotl is pretty much just an Aztec/Mexica concept.
Incidentally this is also why I've made Topiltzin an Aztec leader and rewritten their city list to include earlier and related cultures. 'Aztec' is actually a wide term that can describe many inhabitants of central Mesoamerica; the proper name for the inhabitants of Tenochtitlán and their empire is the Mexica.
I tried the 90x90 Europe map, too. You're perfectly right about the starting positions. I fixed that (among other things). Here are two versions for you (because I don't recall which was the "latest" version and what the differences were; I edited the maps last summer
).View attachment HR Europe map 90x90 revised.zip
About the religious argument: I can't jump into this discussion for a lack of time, thank heaven, and because that would be hard to do without summoning moderator action immediately. But I understand your point, artyom
.wanderm
Chieftain
Modelling actual history can only be in broad strokes, of course: I was only referring to it in the sense of why Mesoamerican ships didn't make it to the 'Old World' etc.
Trying not to take it too seriously, but here goes: as one's gaming Civ is very much influenced by geography, it is a short step to infer that real life "civs" had similar geographic constraints; hence the determinism (e.g. the particular isolation of landmasses relative to Eurasia). Would we extend this to the spread of religion, at least as an extension of culture?
The religions in HR, though, (seemingly) are for flavor in terms of gameplay; with that the flavor buildings attempt to be faithful to their histories and vernacular. I was only curious as to whether these histories were deliberately promoted out of respect for their ideology or their influence? If the latter, then perhaps it all comes back to "rolling another start"!
davidtylr
Chieftain
I like the religion the way it is. The only thing i would change is for example if i founded both Islam and Christianity. I decided i wanted Islam to be my state religion but another civilisation is Christian i think it should effect diplomacy the worse. It should pretty much be a declaration to war. That civilisation should be determined to have the holy city of Christianity belong to a Christian country.
Looks like I have stuffed up the inflation calculations. It's too high and it's amplified the slower the gamespeed you're playing. On Odyssey it's pretty much double what it should be. Attached is a fix, the file replaces the one at /History Rewritten/Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml. As always, be aware that swapping a file like this can potentially break games in progress.
wanderm
Chieftain
Thanks!!
I tried the 90x90 Europe map, too. You're perfectly right about the starting positions. I fixed that (among other things). Here are two versions for you (because I don't recall which was the "latest" version and what the differences were; I edited the maps last summer
View attachment 312192
About the religious argument: I can't jump into this discussion for a lack of time, thank heaven, and because that would be hard to do without summoning moderator action immediately. But I understand your point, artyom
awesome map(s). so excited to try it, gonna have to abandon my victoria game
. a few things I think you may have missed though: still no elephants
, and perhaps the russians could start somewhere more east for balance's sake? great level of detail though. its exactly how I want. i'll make a thread about the balance of the map after I play it a decent amount of timesawesome map(s). so excited to try it, gonna have to abandon my victoria game
Now I'm confused. I was thinking, it was the same 90x90 map, that's included in The_J's modcomp and that you were talking about. If it isn't, never mind, good that you like it, then. (Damn, it was only half a year ago, must be Alzheimer
)Now I'm confused. I was thinking, it was the same 90x90 map, that's included in The_J's modcomp and that you were talking about. If it isn't, never mind, good that you like it, then. (Damn, it was only half a year ago, must be Alzheimer
I have a Europe 80x59 map sitting in my 'todo' folder that I believe you directed me to a while back, suggesting it as a better Europe map than the 90x90 one. I'm pretty sure it's the same as the one you've linked above. I'll definitely take a look at it for 1.18.
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