1.18 Civics Changes
- Thread starter Leoreth
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roofitavio
Chieftain
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The Norse start with Vassalage, but lose it the next turn (presumably because it requires Feudalism, which they don't start with). Are they supposed to keep this civic?
urbestfriend
Warlord
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A couple of notes after running some games - well tbh one note:
The happiness problems have gotten worse if you don't run Nationalism. TBH I always felt like Nationalism was the go to civic I ran 95% of the time before even if I didn't have any towns because defensive pacts are horrible in this mod and I wouldn't run them if my life depended on it, it gives a nice little stability bonus for waging wars (which you usually want to be doing) and the ability to draft in an emergency is nice. But the massive happiness nerf to secularism and the happiness buff to nationalism means that I find it basically mandatory to run nationalism unless you're a very small civ running democracy.
The happiness problems have gotten worse if you don't run Nationalism. TBH I always felt like Nationalism was the go to civic I ran 95% of the time before even if I didn't have any towns because defensive pacts are horrible in this mod and I wouldn't run them if my life depended on it, it gives a nice little stability bonus for waging wars (which you usually want to be doing) and the ability to draft in an emergency is nice. But the massive happiness nerf to secularism and the happiness buff to nationalism means that I find it basically mandatory to run nationalism unless you're a very small civ running democracy.
Landyn Linhares
Chieftain
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What happened to tolerance
Dracosolon
Emperor
Hemegony
Cacaso
Warlord
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continuing the discussion regarding Secularism (Scientific Method, medium): no state religion, +10% research in all cities, double scientist slots
As this civic suffered a certain nerf, could it not be maintained at least double production for university? because I think this would fit well into this civic for historical reasons, since secular thinking is something closely linked to university thinking.
Another issue is that before secularism had +1 happiness from non-state religion, which has now been transferred to civic syncretism. Does this mean that civic secularism will have problems with unhappines due to religions? I don't think this would be very good, as secularism preaches a separation of state issues from religion, so I think religion shouldn't be a problem in cities. If not all cities generally have 1 or 2 religions then this would cause +1 or +2 unhapines in all cities.
perhaps a solution would be to give "avoid 1 unhappiness from 1 religion in each city", so if for example in some European CIV that is Catholic (Spain, Portugal, France, Austria) adopted secularism, then the Catholicism religion would not generate unhappiness in the cities . But if there was a certain city with 2 religions (Catholicism+Protestism) then it would generate +1 unhapines. This would help a little to avoid problems with happiness that have been noticed in this new version.
I think that the effects, "avoid 1 unhappiness from 1 religion in each city", and/or "double production for university" civic secularism would be interesting.
Another point I think civic Despotism (or totalitarianism, or state party, or another more "autocratic" civic) would be to add double production for constabulary. because this is a building linked to population control (to generate espionage) and dictatorships always end up doing this. just as civic Despotism was a little nerfed (due to the reduction in production per whipped population) so adding this I think could be interesting to create a little more balance
Temujin8k
Fluyts, Grand Vizier of Your Mind
Maybe we can restore the +1 happiness per religion for Secularism, but also increase the happiness per non-state religion from +1 to +2? This should negate religion unhappiness with Secularism, while providing a net +1 happiness per non-state religion with Syncretism.
spydama
Chieftain
In my recent Vietnam playthrough, I couldn't bring myself to abandon the Isolationism civic.
The +1 food per specialist effect is just too overpowered.
In version 1.17, the Republic civic had a food penalty for several improvements.
Now, it has become much stronger. The vulnerability in trade can also be resolved by creating several distant vassals.
The only weakness is the stability penalty (stability -3 for the Industrial, Global, and Digital eras).
But rather than abandoning Isolationism because of this penalty, it would be much more efficient to find ways to maintain stability while keeping Isolationism.
Yes, the time has come to raise the red flag.
"Aufstehen! Das ist die Internationale!"
The +1 food per specialist effect is just too overpowered.
In version 1.17, the Republic civic had a food penalty for several improvements.
Now, it has become much stronger. The vulnerability in trade can also be resolved by creating several distant vassals.
The only weakness is the stability penalty (stability -3 for the Industrial, Global, and Digital eras).
But rather than abandoning Isolationism because of this penalty, it would be much more efficient to find ways to maintain stability while keeping Isolationism.
Yes, the time has come to raise the red flag.
"Aufstehen! Das ist die Internationale!"
Attachments
banzay13
Emperor
Much better then Republic, agree. You lose 10-15% of commerce instantly, but in future, with pop grow - you'll not regret.
Look like we need nerf it
, after years of asking to gear up IsolationismMaybe leave food bonus only for certain type of specialist? Statesman? And 1 free specialist per city
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Just throwing some ideas, but I feel like it would be flavorful if Isolationism had some kind of diplomatic consequence. After all, by restricting international trade routes you're also harming non-isolationist civs a bit. They have a right to be annoyed. So a diplomatic penalty could work, although I worry that it wouldn't be very fun.Much better then Republic, agree. You lose 10-15% of commerce instantly, but in future, with pop grow - you'll not regret.
Look like we need nerf it
Maybe leave food bonus only for certain type of specialist? Statesman? And 1 free specialist per city
More interestingly, how about an inability to have Open Border agreements? We're already halfway there with no foreign trade, but no foreign trade isn't directly noticeable. Restricting the international movement of units would make the feeling of isolation much more immersive. If the civic's bonuses are good enough it would be an interesting choice to give players. It seems to fit the stereotypical historically isolationist country, too (Edo Japan). On the other hand, maybe that'd disrupt other aspects of the game (like what to do when you really need Open Borders with an AI civ but they're isolationist).
AOS9001
Slightly over 9000.
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Matthew Perry them, of course.
Speaking of, it would be nice to demand open borders the way you can demand tribute, or demand open borders in peace negotiations. I think this was mentioned in another thread already?
TsimTsigal
Warlord
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You know, Opium Wars now make sense: the British declared war on China because they refused to switch to Colonialism.
Isolationism should come with research penalty. Not only trade suffers but the civilization also falls behind the rest of the world, refusing to adapt. Maybe -1 primary yield per specialist?
Isolationism should come with research penalty. Not only trade suffers but the civilization also falls behind the rest of the world, refusing to adapt. Maybe -1 primary yield per specialist?
Maggy_domain
Chieftain
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- Jun 15, 2018
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This would hurt a lot. Personally I liked specialist rush.
In fact, you guys should also account that you now unlock this effect only in Renaissance Era instead of Ancient (!). This is a big nerf.
