1.18 Civics Changes

[Hickman888]

I think the idea proposed by GoneFishingX of giving +50% production of national wonders to the civic nationhood is very good.

Of all the civics available, the one that would fit the most, even by its name, with this skill would be precisely nationhood.

And this would be good to give it a buff because, really, if the draft skill is not used/needed, this Territory civic becomes very weak, it only gives some happiness in some buildings, the effect of increasing the production of national wonders would be very fitting.

Maybe you could even adopt the idea of +1 happiness in cinema (Proposed by Hickman888), and maybe even +1 happiness in palace as well.



Another point I would like to talk about is about the civic Secularism, it became very weak compared to what it was in version 1.17. The fact that immigration does not bring religion helps to avoid problems with happiness, and this was a good change. But I think the +100% building speed for university building could come back, it would be very fitting for it.

My 2cents: I never found the cost of the National Wonders prohibitively expensive. The main obstacle I usually have in building them is meeting their building requirements, but even then, it's not too hard to do so with a bit of foreplaning.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

My 2cents: I never found the cost of the National Wonders prohibitively expensive. The main obstacle I usually have in building them is meeting their building requirements, but even then, it's not too hard to do so with a bit of foreplaning.

I can grant all of that and still consider the proposal a winner because its consistent with what I (and presumably many others) consider a hallmark of strong Civic design: Leverage. I see potential for an effect like this contributing to the emergence of new meta strats of the "power spike" variety or something along those lines. Perhaps provide pathways for some more challenging/nigh impossible civs to succeed? Or at the very least it could be a useful general tool for players to focus, synergize, specialize, yadda yadda gabba gabba. I think we're probably on the same page in principle and I was just struck with some imaginationings n stuff, innit? I promise to be among the first to cry "Nationhood OP Plz Nerf" if it gets out of hand

 

[Dannimal]

Suggestion for secularism: + commerce or culture for all specialists. No priest slots.

 

[Hickman888]

I can grant all of that and still consider the proposal a winner because its consistent with what I (and presumably many others) consider a hallmark of strong Civic design: Leverage. I see potential for an effect like this contributing to the emergence of new meta strats of the "power spike" variety or something along those lines. Perhaps provide pathways for some more challenging/nigh impossible civs to succeed? Or at the very least it could be a useful general tool for players to focus, synergize, specialize, yadda yadda gabba gabba. I think we're probably on the same page in principle and I was just struck with some imaginationings n stuff, innit? I promise to be among the first to cry "Nationhood OP Plz Nerf" if it gets out of hand

Haha I get it. I imagine it might help America quickly construct a National Wonder or two before expanding westward raises the building requirement. Or help Argentina quickly construct the few national wonders that they need in Buenos Aires. I just think that, except for a fringe case or two, getting access to a national wonder 2-4 turns faster really isn't that noteworthy, and I don't foresee myself switching to this civic to take advantage of that effect too much.

I'm also generally not a fan of having too many "+x% building construction" civic effects, because IMO it leads to a "adopt civic, build what you need, switch civic" playstyle.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

I'm also generally not a fan of having too many "+x% building construction" civic effects, because IMO it leads to a "adopt civic, build what you need, switch civic" playstyle.

Bruhhhhh tou-fudgin-ché that's a skits rejoinder. That is to say, fair point indeed.

 

[banzay13]

I'm never run secularism now, coz you hit hard with unhappiness, and what you will do with all this great scientists? Bubble? To save one turn? Build 2-3 academy, but what next?
Maybe add +1 happy from University per city's culture level? And double production speed for it.

Another idea - give secularism effect from House of Wisdom

 

[StuartKleinsen]

I recently did one of those hour long dives into Magister modmod for FfH and there are quite nice ideas for leader traits and civics, for example some make great person buildings builtable or cities retain their civ with UBs and UUs. I think those could be good ideas for new civics effects or UPs.

 

[Leoreth]

Could you give/link to a summary of these effects?

 

[Dracosolon]

Those effects were already features of Fall from Heaven.

Command Posts are a building sort of like the Armory, that can only be built by a Great General, unless you have the Organized trait, in which case you can build it normally.

The Tolerant trait is specific to one civilization, though Kael also made it available as a game option in a different mod:

Assimilation: With this option selected captured cities retain their original build abilities. So if you capture an Egyptian city you will be able to build War Chariots (Egyptian UU) and Obelisks (Egyptian UB) in it. If you capture a Roman city you can build Praetorians and Forums in that city. Captured cities will not be able to build your real civilization units and buildings, so if you are playing as Babylon and you capture an Egyptian city you won't be able to build Bowmen (Babylonian UU) in it. You can now build diverse empires where samurai are trained in your Japonese holdings while your German territories enjoy the benifits of their Assembly Plants.

 

[StuartKleinsen]

Could you give/link to a summary of these effects?

I'll try to get on my laptop when I'm home to look them up ingame as I can't find a sufficient wiki or post while being on the road

 

[Leoreth]

No worries, there is no rush.

 

[1SDANi]

What if the National Wonder effect was instead something like "-50% buildings needed for National Wonder effects" and the main effects of national wonders were made to require that many buildings, instead of the buildings being required for the national wonders to be built, that way you can't just switch to it to build the national wonders and then bail

I was always partial to +1 Happiness per Priest for Secularism, works as a nice representation for stuff like the US Televangelist era where increased unrest leads to increased popularity of religious ideas and moral panics in an otherwise secular society, and gameplay-wise, while it does help supplement a lack of happiness by giving the ribbon yields of priest specialists, it still encourages building secular religious buildings so you can run more useful specialists.