1.6 feedback

[Slvynn]

Oh and i recall one more "issue" so to speak- when you find a new city(starter city or any) the land reserved when your city pops, is reconized by your units on the next turn as opposed to "realizing" its thier's right away. Like the following- Starter Settler pops a new city>> starter soliders or whatever make thier first move, starting within your new cities borders, can only move one space, as opposed to the 2 usually(Bene Grissit <sp> for example)

Homeground promotion given to unit if it spends turn in own culture borders. Just aquired culture not counts, only after turn pass.

 

[Slvynn]

SL16 After 1.6.4 patch all maps are aviable , which may lead to confusion for new players. Imo it was better when Archipelago and Arrakis were only aviable mapsscripts.

 

[Deliverator]

When I type ctrl+x, nothing happens. Is there something else I need to do first?

Ctrl-X puts you into dotmap mode, and Alt-X places down dots with BFCs so you can plan your city placement. It worked OK in 1.6.3, but I haven't playtested 1.6.4 yet.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Thanks Slvynn!! I came across this mod within the last week so the Madhi relgion i gained only cause all the others were taken^^ And i was far far behind to even attempt to attack cites on my first go at the mod to see what you shared with me.

Once again to the crew involved in making this mod-Fantastic work! I cannot think of another off-the-shelf game that folks like you all can find new and exciting angles to create new games from the original concept!

 

[Humakty]

In my 1.6.1 and 1.6.3 games, Harkonnen have been lagging way behind everyone else in development and techs. It's so sad they aren't the worhty ennemy they're supposed to be.

 

[Ahriman]

Huh, I haven't particularly noticed this. Which Harkonnen leaders?
Rabban in particular is insanely aggressive, rather like Doviello in FFH, and so is likely to rush someone and then be weak if the rush fails.

Possible reasons for Harkonnen to lag:

a) Very high settings for aggression and armysize might cause economy to lag
b) Slavery civic too weak atm, and they will stay in slavery.
c) Its possible they don't build enough workers if they have lots of slaves? Did slaves get the 2 moves/move on desert in 1.6.3? I forget.

Otherwise, I call coincidence from poor start positions, they're no worse than any other faction otherwise.

 

[negyvenketto]

3 questions.
1) How can one build Inquisitors? Researching Theocracy is not enough. I even switched to Theocracy civic, still couldn't build Inquisitors.
2) I attacked Harkonnens with a 10+ stack. Approached his town but they hit me with 2-3 rollers and I could find my stack outside the borders Is it a bug or feature?
3) How can a Reverend Mother give combat promotions to units. I couldn't find a way.

 

[Deliverator]

2) I attacked Harkonnens with a 10+ stack. Approached his town but they hit me with 2-3 rollers and I could find my stack outside the borders Is it a bug or feature?

This teleporting of units seems to be something to do with the enslaving ability of the Harkonnen. It is a known issue, that *might* be fixed in 1.6.4.

 

[Ahriman]

1) How can one build Inquisitors? Researching Theocracy is not enough. I even switched to Theocracy civic, still couldn't build Inquisitors.

Really? Sounds like a bug. Honestly, I haven't used them in ages.
They should just require Theocracy tech.

How can a Reverend Mother give combat promotions to units. I couldn't find a way.

Passively, just keep in the same stack for many turns. Is the effect not noticeable? I haven't really tested.

 

[Slvynn]

Btw i had Harks quite powerfull in my games (Feyd / Baron)
Beast is just DW's Monty. As Ahriman said he just dumb rusher, who not favor tech. But still he is a threat, even as someone's wardog.

 

[negyvenketto]

Passively, just keep in the same stack for many turns. Is the effect not noticeable? I haven't really tested.

Maybe I just didn't know what to expect from them. I thought it's working like in FFH, but it seems I was wrong.

 

[davidlallen]

SL16 After 1.6.4 patch all maps are aviable , which may lead to confusion for new players. Imo it was better when Archipelago and Arrakis were only aviable mapsscripts.

That should not be happening. Does anybody else see this behavior? In all versions since 1.4.something, the mod does not allow public maps. This is controlled by file ...Dune Wars/Dune Wars.ini:

; Allow public maps to be used with this mod
AllowPublicMaps = 0

This file hasn't changed during the recent releases.

 

[davidlallen]

when you press Ctrl + x to place city markers, if you move the mouse back over a marker it causes a massive python error that goes off the bottom of the screen, making it impoddible to keep playing.

Ctrl-X puts you into dotmap mode, and Alt-X places down dots with BFCs so you can plan your city placement. It worked OK in 1.6.3, but I haven't playtested 1.6.4 yet.

It works for me locally using 1.6.4. As far as I know, nobody has made any changes to DW which affect this ever. It is working in the succession game, since they used these markers to discuss initial city locations.

Do the markers work properly for you in other mods? Do you have BUG installed in your customassets folder? I understand that effectively having two BUGs like this can cause a variety of weird effects.

 

[Ahriman]

I haven't installed 1.6.4, so I can't tell.

I thought it's working like in FFH, but it seems I was wrong.

You mean like Enchanted weapons/flaming arrows type things? I think those would be too powerful here.

Maybe I just didn't know what to expect from them.

This suggests a lack of documentation.
This is the big problem with passive effects in general; they aren't obvious to players, who tend to want a button to push to make an effect happen.
Maybe we could move the training effect to a promotion (rather than coded into the unit): any unit with the "weirding trainer" promotion (who will only be the Sayyadinas) trains other units, and the promotion has mouseover text that says it passively trains units in the same tile. Just a thought.

 

[davidlallen]

1) How can one build Inquisitors? Researching Theocracy is not enough. I even switched to Theocracy civic, still couldn't build Inquisitors.

Thank you for finding this bug! If you are interested, there is a one line change you can make in your local installation, and I will fix it in 1.6.5. There is a lot of custom code in the RevolutionDCM mod which deals with inquisitors. It looks like I changed it at one point, and then never updated it when we reorganized the tech tree. Today the inquisitor *also* requires Water of Life technology, and requires you to have a state religion. The first is wrong; the second is probably right, but not documented.

To fix this, edit file Dune Wars/assets/python/CvGameUtils.py and search for WATER_OF_LIFE:

	def isInquisitionConditions(self, playerID):
		pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(playerID)
		if not gc.getTeam(pPlayer.getTeam()).isHasTech(gc.getInfoTypeForString('TECH_WATER_OF_LIFE')):
			return False
		if pPlayer.getStateReligion( ) < 0:
			return False
		return True

Change TECH_WATER_OF_LIFE to TECH_THEOCRACY. When editing python, be sure not to change the "white space", that is, make sure the tabs at the start of the lines stay tabs and your editor does not change them to spaces.

I will add a "hover help" entry that you must have a state religion, but I will probably just remove the test for a tech. The game already tests that you have this tech, so testing it here also is redundant.

 

[Slvynn]

That should not be happening. Does anybody else see this behavior? In all versions since 1.4.something, the mod does not allow public maps. This is controlled by file ...Dune Wars/Dune Wars.ini:

; Allow public maps to be used with this mod
AllowPublicMaps = 0

This file hasn't changed during the recent releases.

Odd, but it not as you say - i have all maps aviable.....
i mean i had it 1, and changed to 0, now its ok. But it was 1 originally.

 

[davidlallen]

This is the big problem with passive effects in general; they aren't obvious to players, who tend to want a button to push to make an effect happen.

True, but the big problem with active effects in general is that the AI needs detailed changes to use them, and in most cases, the AI will not use them effectively. In this particular case, each turn, there is a percent chance that one unit in the stack will gain a promotion. Pushing this button every turn to cause this seems like a pain.

Maybe we could move the training effect to a promotion (rather than coded into the unit): any unit with the "weirding trainer" promotion (who will only be the Sayyadinas) trains other units, and the promotion has mouseover text that says it passively trains units in the same tile. Just a thought.

Since at least 1.5.x, the unit which does this training has hover help which says that. I suppose we could add a dummy promotion to make it a little more obvious; but if people don't notice the unit hover help, I am not sure they will notice the promotion hover help.

Please take a look at the unit hover help, and the details in the Unique Abilities section of the DW concepts tab, and also at the hint. (You can find all the hints in the Hints tab of the pedia). Since these three places do not seem sufficient, what should I add to make it more obvious?

 

[davidlallen]

Odd, but it not as you say - i have all maps aviable.....

You have given some instructions in another thread about installing two copies of the mod at once. This may be the cause of your particular problem. If you have installed any mod in a directory called xxx, then the file xxx.ini is read. For "normal" installations of DW, the directory is called Dune Wars, and file Dune Wars.ini is read. I believe you have renamed your install directory so that you can have two versions installed at the same time. So, please check if you see the correct behavior when running the version you have installed in "Dune Wars". If so, then the solution is to go into your other install directory, say xxx, and rename Dune Wars.ini to xxx.ini.

This is a subtle problem, which is unrelated to DW in particular. Any mod would have this problem. Should we add this to the documentation somewhere?

 

[Ahriman]

True, but the big problem with active effects in general is that the AI needs detailed changes to use them, and in most cases, the AI will not use them effectively

I agree completely, our goal should be to make passive effects apparent to human players, not to drop passive effects.

Since at least 1.5.x, the unit which does this training has hover help which says that

Does it say that the effect is passive? Or something like "will gradually/slowly train units in their stack over many turns"?

Since these three places do not seem sufficient, what should I add to make it more obvious?

I don't know; I know what to expect, so its harder to know where players will look. This is why we need feedback from general players who have a fresher perspective.
Negyvenketto - any thoughts here?

Should we add this to the documentation somewhere?

Perhaps a sentence in the Dunewars Concepts, and maybe the game-loading screen, that says "Make sure that you only play this mod with the Arrakis and Duneipegalo mapscripts".

 

[Slvynn]

))))
i am glad to announce that your work on fremen was sucessfull!!!!!
Fremen rock now (in 1.6.4). They are so powerfull and huge in my game

Its Immortal level game.