1.6 feedback

[Psychic_Llamas]

when you press Ctrl + x to place city markers, if you move the mouse back over a marker it causes a massive python error that goes off the bottom of the screen, making it impoddible to keep playing.

it says something about being unable to remove the marker dot?

 

[negyvenketto]

In 1.6.3 the Fremen missionaries don't have sandwalking promo. Since they don't have scout thopters it's impossible to spread religion actively in the early game to an other island.

 

[Deliverator]

In 1.6.3 the Fremen missionaries don't have sandwalking promo. Since they don't have scout thopters it's impossible to spread religion actively in the early game to an other island.

That's a good point. I wonder if they should have Sandrider versions of the Shai Hulud missionary to encourage them to spread that. They could also get a Fremen version of the Mahdi fighter I guess as well.

 

[Ahriman]

In 1.6.3 the Fremen missionaries don't have sandwalking promo. Since they don't have scout thopters it's impossible to spread religion actively in the early game to an other island.

Hmm, maybe... but Shai-Hulad isn't supposed to be particularly easy to spread. Thats the tradeoff for it being available so early. I could easily see it get spread far too easily were this the case.
As an alternative, maybe the base Shai-Hulad missionary (available to anyone founding that religion) should have sandrider, but only 1 movement point, and be unable to enter deep desert, so it can cross desert waste only.

They could also get a Fremen version of the Mahdi fighter I guess as well.

If Mahdi Fighter is melee, shouldn't it automatically get sandrider? Just like Hardened Bladesmen does? They wouldn't need a UU.

 

[negyvenketto]

They could also get a Fremen version of the Mahdi fighter I guess as well.

Mahdi fighter? You mean Zealots? They are sandwalking. No problem with them.

Hmm, maybe... but Shai-Hulad isn't supposed to be particularly easy to spread. Thats the tradeoff for it being available so early. I could easily see it get spread far too easily were this the case.

No, the point is fremen don't have scout topter as early transport. Every other civ could spread Shai-Hulud except fremen.

 

[davidlallen]

In 1.6.3 the Fremen missionaries don't have sandwalking promo. Since they don't have scout thopters it's impossible to spread religion actively in the early game to an other island.

Good point. Sandrider is automatically added to all Fremen melee units (including Zealot), and certain other units which are listed by name. This includes the scout, settler, worker and soldier. I can extend the list to any missionary unit. But, should it be *all* missionary units? Suppose Fremen adopt Imperial or Landsraad, for example. If it should only apply to some missionaries, which ones? Only Shai-Hulud?

 

[Deliverator]

Only Shai-Hulud?

I think only Shai-Hulud is more thematic.

Sandrider is automatically added to all Fremen melee units (including Zealot), and certain other units which are listed by name. This includes the scout, settler, worker and soldier.

That reminds me. Can we stop the Fremen worker from swapping to the worm rider graphic when the Sandrider promotion is added? So keep the promotion, but don't change the graphic to the worm. The reason is it looks quite weird - the worm rider doesn't have any worker animations and it looks like a worm squats for a while on a tile and then lays a spice harvester. It would be better just to have the same Worker graphic as the other civs so you can see at a glance that they are building a harvester.

 

[Slvynn]

Good point. Sandrider is automatically added to all Fremen melee units (including Zealot), and certain other units which are listed by name. This includes the scout, settler, worker and soldier. I can extend the list to any missionary unit. But, should it be *all* missionary units? Suppose Fremen adopt Imperial or Landsraad, for example. If it should only apply to some missionaries, which ones? Only Shai-Hulud?

Fremen are limited to their religions, so then they should be open only to SH, Qiz

(Mahdi have not missionaries)
Fremen cant adopt other religions.

 

[Deliverator]

Yeah, Qizarate might be OK too. The Qizarate priests are generally ex-Fedaykin so would know how to ride a worm, although they would be pretty out of touch with their old desert ways.

 

[davidlallen]

OK, I will add sandrider to Fremen Shai-Hulud and Qizarate missionaries.

 

[Slvynn]

SL15
Weather Scanner hovering help says : Water Tiles +1 hammer. Meaning it is desert tiles this sounds very ODD in Dune contest
Is there any way to fix this one, because it have feint of blashemy

 

[Ahriman]

No, the point is fremen don't have scout topter as early transport.

Not quite. Scout thopters are 2 moves. Sandrider missionaries woudl be 4 moves on desert tiles. That is a very large difference, and could lead to very rapid religion spread.
Hence why I suggested having a 1-move sandrider version, that was thus 2 moves on desert tiles.

OK, I will add sandrider to Fremen Shai-Hulud and Qizarate missionaries.

Then I suggest reducing their movement rate to 1.

Also, before you do this, make sure that the AI understands it. We don't want a repeat of the settler problem, where the human player can walk them over desert but the AI doesn't understand it can.

We have a similar problem with spy units. Spies don't get used most games, because they can't get into enemy territory. They can't walk across desert (and the AI might not know how to even if they could), and yet the transport untis can't enter enemy terrain without open borders in order to deposit a spy on their island.

 

[davidlallen]

Then I suggest reducing their movement rate to 1.

This would hamper them on land. Let's try leaving them at move 2 with sandrider. I don't think that rapid spread, of a weak religion, will unbalance anything.

We have a similar problem with spy units. Spies don't get used most games, because they can't get into enemy territory.

Actually I snuck a fix for this into 1.6.3:

* Infiltrator unit can now acquire Suspensor Travel promotion allowing movement on desert waste and deep desert terrain.

It requires Logistics I, so a unit must have two promotions to get it. I have not tested this much to see how well the AI uses it. A unit would have to succeed at 2-3 missions to get this in the first place, except for Ordos who could get it easily.

 

[Ahriman]

This would hamper them on land.

Barely, the AI pathfinding will just have them use coastal tiles. The islands aren't normalyl big enough for this to slow them down that much.

I don't think that rapid spread, of a weak religion, will unbalance anything.

I think it could do potentially, because many of the other religions (I'm thinking Imperium in particular) are balanced based on their natural spread rate, and natural spread rate occurs ONLY to cities that do not already have a religion.

I worry that Shai-Hulad could spread widely, which could then choke out any growth of Imperium.

Or it could spread widely on top of Imperium; remember that Imperium is displaced by any other religion.

I noticed the suspensor change, but its not really much of a fix for the problem, because:

It requires Logistics I, so a unit must have two promotions to get it

A unit would have to succeed at 2-3 missions to get this in the first place

How does a unit succeed 2-3 missions if it can't ever get into enemy territory?

To test, why not have infiltators start with the promotion, and observe AI behavior?

 

[davidlallen]

To test, why not have infiltators start with the promotion, and observe AI behavior?

Does it bother you if spies get suspensors before armies do? Although Law Of Arrakis is one level deeper than Suspensor Devices in the tech tree, it is easier to get (8 prereqs vs 10) and they are on unrelated paths.

 

[Ahriman]

Does it bother you if spies get suspensors before armies do?

No, not really. YMMV.

One could argue that there is a difference between having a handful of suspensor vehicles enough to ferry a single guy around (maybe some old suspensor remnants that survived the Great Catastrophe) rather than being able to build them yourself and having enough suspensors to transport around a large military unit.

 

[davidlallen]

when you press Ctrl + x to place city markers, if you move the mouse back over a marker it causes a massive python error that goes off the bottom of the screen, making it impoddible to keep playing.

When I type ctrl+x, nothing happens. Is there something else I need to do first?

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I have a q- possible bug. I apologize for not using/knowing the specific religion's name when you are the first to research Jihad, as i am at work atm. Their Zealot(the 6str one) would not allow religion spread. They can be built after you make that religion's monastary(using that term as it would in a normal civ game) shouldnt that make them missionary's so to speak and be able to spread that religion? Its that the intention for that religion to "auto spread" without a way to manually(missionary's) do it? I have broused thru a few forums on this wonderful mod, but i dont see this addressed.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Oh and i recall one more "issue" so to speak- when you find a new city(starter city or any) the land reserved when your city pops, is reconized by your units on the next turn as opposed to "realizing" its thier's right away. Like the following- Starter Settler pops a new city>> starter soliders or whatever make thier first move, starting within your new cities borders, can only move one space, as opposed to the 2 usually(Bene Grissit <sp> for example)

 

[Slvynn]

I have a q- possible bug. I apologize for not using/knowing the specific religion's name when you are the first to research Jihad, as i am at work atm. Their Zealot(the 6str one) would not allow religion spread. They can be built after you make that religion's monastary(using that term as it would in a normal civ game) shouldnt that make them missionary's so to speak and be able to spread that religion? Its that the intention for that religion to "auto spread" without a way to manually(missionary's) do it? I have broused thru a few forums on this wonderful mod, but i dont see this addressed.

Mahdi is very specific religion - its very aggressive one. There is no "missianary" BTS style unit - however Those zealots are cheap units with lowered support cost - and once you capture city Mahdi autospread there if its your SR. That mean you need to conquer cities to spread it more ,as well as shrine will help you alot. Mahdi is good with total warmongering and inquisitioning. To spread it you need to put world on the crysknife/sword.

Also those concepts are described in Religions pedia and in Dune Wars concepts section. Pedia in last version have quite good descriptions. what version do you play?