2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil Thread

[BirraImperial]

Perhaps they are counting people of Costa Rican descent living elsewhere? More than tripling the population of Costa Ricans would be a trick...but there are quite a few in LA...

We don't even have 5 million people. And our immigrant population is not very high, probably one of the lowest in Latin America...And screaming "Puto" is a Mexican thing...

 

[BirraImperial]

Obviously the game against Greece took a heavy toll on Costa Rica, physically. They barely held their guard against the Dutch, which are in much better form and being on the attack for most of the game is far less taxing than defending, so I don't think the Netherlands will have any trouble in that regard against Argentina.
Having said that, I wished they would have played like they did against Uruguay and Italy. But I understand why the coach planned the game to be mostly defensive on our end. The Dutch have a form of attacking that forces their opposition to guard themselves against the blitzing runs from Robben and Van Persie. If Costa Rica would have played more offensively, the game would have probably ended with the Dutch scoring 3 or 4 goals. The few attacks that we made were quickly dealt with by the Dutch, we had very few people up front. I also don't understand why Campbell was taken out of the game so early. That pretty much killed our already poor offense.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think subbing him wasn't something there was a lot of choice about. If you watch the replay from about five minutes before he was taken out any time Campbell is in the shot it's pretty clear he was running on fumes. Another five minutes he'd have been flat on the field.

 

[luiz]

Actually no I didn't, but don't let facts get in the way of your wild homerism.

I think going on a one incident witch hunt when the game was literally filled with bookable offenses that weren't booked misses the point. The person at fault here is the referee that let the game get out of control. He's lucky he only has one major injury on his conscience, because that's what happens when you set the standards at 'wild west no holds barred'. That's what I've said all along, and it has never included "that wasn't a bookable offense".

The fact is that Brazil entered the game testing the limits of what they could get away with, and demonstrated very early on that the answer was 'almost anything'. Once that was made clear both sides played as if it were a free for all, because it basically was. Eventually someone got hurt, as could only be expected.

Since the someone who got seriously hurt was a Brazilian player Brazilian homer fans everywhere are all butt hurt about it, and some are irrational. That's also to be expected, since it's nothing new. If a Colombian player had been the one who got hurt the situation would be exactly the same, just the names would be changed. We would perhaps be spared here because I haven't noticed any blindly homer Colombians posting on this board, but just our luck...

Actually, yes you did, textually. Want me to quote your exact words?

"Bad challenge? No doubt. Foul? No doubt. Deserving of a yellow card under any normal circumstances? No doubt. Decidedly worse than any number of other incidents in this game? Not even.
...
Unfortunate, but not criminal, and not even conspicuously bad in the context of this botch job of refereeing."

To say that Brazilians are "butthurt" about having their greatest star with a broken back is another extremely douchy and hateful thing to say. We're heartbroken, far more for an exceptionally talented kid (your country has never produced anyone with half of his football talent, and he's 22, just to put it in perspective) that had his dream forever shattered than by the deep trouble that this spells for our national team. Losing at home would suck, but Neymar with a broken back sucks far more.

And it's not "Brazilian fans" who are extremely upset about it. The whole world is, the whole sports press is, FIFA's medical committee is (see below). In this very thread, which is of course totally irrelevant, we had British posters, French, American, Costa Rican, all seeing the foul as deliberate and ultra-violent and deserving of a ban. Only the haters, you and the Rat, see it as par for the course in that dirty game.

Just to further discredit your ridiculous and hateful opinion, how about that of experts who actually matter, unlike you or theRat?

FIFA's medical committee ask for severe punishment for Zuninga
"Miche D´Hooghe, physician and member of FIFA's Executive Committee: I have 42 years of World Cups and never saw a scene like that. Damage to vertebrae are very rare in football. It was the most dramatic injure I've ever seen."
http://esportes.estadao.com.br/noti...a-querem-punicao-severa-contra-zuniga,1524221

So the assault that you called "not conspicuously bad" is being called the worst in 42 years of WCs by a member of FIFA's executive committee, who is also a physician. Luckily for football, his opinion matters, unlike yours.

Another interesting point: Zuninga's assault on Neymar was so vicious and potentially destructive that it's banned even on UFC, and results on the offender being automatically expelled from the competition (and in the opinion of all UFC experts interviewed, fighters, coaches and physicians, there's no such thing as an unintentional knee-on-back assault).
http://extra.globo.com/esporte/copa...em-neymar-daria-cartao-vermelho-13152103.html

So you can bet Zuninga will be punished, because what he did was vicious and indefensible. And this is the opinion of experts and of people who matter.

Are we still at this 'the whole world is against Neymar' thing?

One of the issues with this Brazilian squad is the lack of quality beyond a single player. Such teams usually fail at one point of time, be it an injury, be it an 'off day' of said player or great marking that neutralizes that person.

If this referee would have been of any quality, Neymar most likely would have gotten his second yellow and not be able to play anyway. I don't like the Fifa rule of two yellows for one reason. There is no consistency amongst referees, some are tough and some super lenient, the result of which, some teams get their players suspended and some are just lucky.

I actually think, Neymar not being able to play for Brazil might be their advantage. What if the rest of the team has not been playing well thanks to the whole game catered to one single player. Germany's strength is obviously its depth in players, there is no single player that makes or brakes the game (by the way, their best striker isn't even there due to injury).

Are we still denying the absurd gravity of the assault on Neymar?
Luckily for football, FIFA isn't. The only ones who deny it are irrelevant haters.

This theory that Brazil would benefit without Neymar is also quite bizarre. Yeah, we're gonna benefit by missing our best player, who has been absolutely great in every single game (except ironically against Colombia). I'm sure Argentina would be better without Messi, or France without Benzema, the Netherlands without Robben, or Colombia without Rodriguez... some great logic there.

As for the Brazilian team, Neymar was indeed by far the best and the only superstar. But the team still has several excellent players, in fact only Hulk and Fred could be called "bad" players (for WC standards). All others are really good, even if they haven't performed well this WC (like Paulinho and Oscar, both excellent players who have played like crap).

Can we beat Germany without the irreplaceable genius of Neymar and the defensive solidity of our captain, Thiago Silva? It's doubtful. I think Germany are clear favorites, specially if we consider the emotional blow of missing Neymar to an already emotionally unstable team. That said, Germany is far from impressive. What, failing to beat Ghana, struggling against the US and even Algeria. Their performance, all things considered, was hardly much better than Brazil's. They have an edge, to be sure, but we have home soil and solid history of beating the Germans. Maybe Felipão will pull a miracle. Or maybe the Germans will obliterate us. Who knows.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way...just pretend they don't exist even while you quote them. As you so clearly demonstrated, I've been saying the same thing all along.

Meanwhile, since I don't read Portuguese I can't comment on the article from the Brazilian press, but I will say that FIFA's medical committee chairman hasn't made news on the subject anywhere else in the rest of the 'extremely upset world' you seem to think exists. Apparently the 'extremely upset' sporting press you think exists everywhere else has moved on and isn't clambering for further 'news' on a subject that has been thoroughly examined already. If I did read Portuguese I'm quite certain I would find that the good doctor says exactly what you claim...that this was the worst injury he has seen. The connection from 'worst injury' to 'criminal assault' is no doubt still yours and yours alone...though no doubt shared with some number of homerism blinded Brazilians like yourself.

The cause of the injury was a foul. A bookable foul. One of many bookable fouls that were not booked in this botch of a game. The results are sad. What you are trying to make out of them is a joke...on you...because no matter how many times you try to equate injury with intent it just won't work. You come off as silly as Suarez did with his 'I just fell mouth first' statement.

A ref lost control of a game. The dirty play in that game escalated on both sides until someone got badly hurt. The lesson to be learned as a ref is to not let games get out of control. That's the story, and responsible media finished covering it days ago. Brazilian media and fans need to get their panties untwisted and move on.

 

[Darkness]

Meanwhile, since I don't read Portuguese I can't comment on the article from the Brazilian press, but I will say that FIFA's medical committee chairman hasn't made news on the subject anywhere else in the rest of the 'extremely upset world' you seem to think exists. Apparently the 'extremely upset' sporting press you think exists everywhere else has moved on and isn't clambering for further 'news' on a subject that has been thoroughly examined already.

I think it rather means that there is no "extremely upset world" nor is there an "extremely upset sporting press" (outside of Brazil and some parts of South America).

@Luiz: Your way of posting (i.e. everyone is against the Brazilian team and all fouls on Brazilian players (especially Neymar)) is very antagonizing actually. I understand that you're disappointed, but your attitude is making it really easy to root against Brazil on tuesday.

Should make my sister-in-law very happy, me rooting for Germany....

 

[Tahuti]

the Netherlands which ended 3 times as runner-ups in the last fourty years.

See, that is the problem. We should have earned the world cup long ago. Yet we didn't. Let's face it, it is a grave injustice!

We have the skills and the talent, yet bad luck always follows in our wake. We are like the Gordon Freeman of national football teams, hence his orange HEV suit.

 

[Arwon]

Some guy on this

After the cruel injury that keeps Neymar out of the rest of the World Cup, Brazil has become a country in mourning – and also a country in denial.

Camilo Zuniga, the Colombian right back whose ill judged lunge cause Neymar's injury, has become public enemy number one. As I write, Brazil's most famous football commentator has just described it as one of the most violent moments in the history of the game. The Brazilian FA are in the process of asking FIFA to give Zuniga a huge ban.

At this time, with the poster boy out of action, reality has been thrown out of the window.

Saturday's edition of 'Lance!' – Brazil's usually excellent sports daily – makes a sole passing reference to the wider context. "Curiously," says one article, "Brazil committed more fouls than Colombia – 31 against 23." This fact is presented as if it were some statistical quirk. But really it is part of a plan.

It is all very well for Brazil coach Luiz Felipe Scolari to complain that Neymar was being hunted on the field. The hunting started from his side. This is an unfortunate part of the contemporary Brazilian game. It is called tactical fouling. Its aim is to prevent the opposition gaining any fluency in possession by repeatedly interrupting the game with fouls.

I well recall being in the stadium for the final of the 2007 Copa America. Brazil, with an understrength side, pulled off a surprise by beating Argentina 3-0. It was a clinical counter-attacking triumph. But, up against a team with the likes of Riquelme, Veron and a young Lionel Messi, Brazil opened up its tool box and committed around 45 fouls.

Last year's Confederations Cup final against Spain was another resounding 3-0 win for Brazil, with some superb Neymar moments along the way. But the Spanish were entitled to a little grumble about the persistent fouling by their opponent – Brazil committed 26 fouls in that game, five fewer than its total against Colombia.

If any player was hunted on the field at Fortaleza last Saturday (AEST) it was the number ten of Colombia, James Rodriguez. Again and again he was on the end of vicious fouls from Brazil midfielder Fernandinho, who appeared to be acting to a plan to intimidate his opponent out of the game. And the referee did nothing.

The danger signs were there in Brazil's previous match against Chile. Right at the start Fernandinho flew into a late tackle. It was a clear yellow card. None was awarded. This leniency has been so prevalent that we can only assume the referees are acting on some kind of FIFA directive. It would seem that the world governing body, understandably, does not want to see too many players suspended, which might devalue its showpiece competition. Even Lionel Messi has been fortunate to escape punishment for the occasional petulant challenge or reaction.

This style of refereeing is very dangerous in a game involving two South American sides. After Fernandinho had got away with his bad tackle against Chile, it was clear that Chile would react. If Brazil was going to have a free one, then so would Chile – and it was also clear who the victim would be. Charles Aranguiz slid in with a tackle on Neymar which reduced the effectiveness of the young Brazilian in the match and briefly threatened his participation against Colombia.

In other words, Brazil had received a warning – do not go out to hunt lest you be hunted. It did not heed that warning. It tried to kick James Rodriguez out of the game, and the outcome is that Neymar has been kicked out of the World Cup.

It is very sad for him, for his team and for the tournament. But the sad, and surely unavoidable truth is that Brazil is reaping what it has sown – and as a proud owner of 1982 Brazil shirt, that is a desperately despondent sentence to be forced to write.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Some guy on this

It should be noted that despite the fact he is saying the same things I am, I am not Tim Vickery.

 

[luiz]

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way...just pretend they don't exist even while you quote them. As you so clearly demonstrated, I've been saying the same thing all along.

Meanwhile, since I don't read Portuguese I can't comment on the article from the Brazilian press, but I will say that FIFA's medical committee chairman hasn't made news on the subject anywhere else in the rest of the 'extremely upset world' you seem to think exists. Apparently the 'extremely upset' sporting press you think exists everywhere else has moved on and isn't clambering for further 'news' on a subject that has been thoroughly examined already. If I did read Portuguese I'm quite certain I would find that the good doctor says exactly what you claim...that this was the worst injury he has seen. The connection from 'worst injury' to 'criminal assault' is no doubt still yours and yours alone...though no doubt shared with some number of homerism blinded Brazilians like yourself.

The cause of the injury was a foul. A bookable foul. One of many bookable fouls that were not booked in this botch of a game. The results are sad. What you are trying to make out of them is a joke...on you...because no matter how many times you try to equate injury with intent it just won't work. You come off as silly as Suarez did with his 'I just fell mouth first' statement.

A ref lost control of a game. The dirty play in that game escalated on both sides until someone got badly hurt. The lesson to be learned as a ref is to not let games get out of control. That's the story, and responsible media finished covering it days ago. Brazilian media and fans need to get their panties untwisted and move on.

If you don't speak Portuguese, Google Translate is your friend. You should try it before accusing me of distorting the news (quite a stupid thing since anyone can use Google Translate). You also claimed to speak Spanish, anyone who speaks Spanish can understand most of that article.

Of course the press moved on. They have here as well, we are far more concerned with Neymar recovering and beating the Germans than with punishing Zuniga (an extremely well deserved punishment, which will be handled, but the damage to Neymar and to Brazil's WC ambitions can't be undone).

But facts are facts. What you called "just another foul" is being called one of the most violent fouls in WC history. FIFA's medical committee is asking for a severe punishment. Those are facts, not your irrelevant and ignorant opinion.

If this was just another foul, even with an unfortunate outcome, Zuniga would not be punished.

I think it rather means that there is no "extremely upset world" nor is there an "extremely upset sporting press" (outside of Brazil and some parts of South America).

@Luiz: Your way of posting (i.e. everyone is against the Brazilian team and all fouls on Brazilian players (especially Neymar)) is very antagonizing actually. I understand that you're disappointed, but your attitude is making it really easy to root against Brazil on tuesday.

Should make my sister-in-law very happy, me rooting for Germany....

I don't think everyone is against Brazil at all. The vast majority of people, in the world and even on this thread (from all nationalities) saw it for what it was abd think it was an ultra-violent foul deserving of punishment by FIFA. This comment was made, in this thread, by American, British, French, Costa Rican and of course Brazilian posters.

It's not Brazil vs the world, and I don't believe in any conspiracies to hurt Brazil, or whatever. Those who believe in a vast conspiracy are precisely the haters.

You root for Germany all you want (was that supposed to make me sad or something?). I'll root for Argentina against you.

@Arwon: that's just an opinion, and a bad one, because it detracts from the fact that while there was plenty of dirty play on both direction (reading that crappy piece it's like Brazil was constantly hitting Colombia who in just one unlucky moment broke Neymar's back), none of that dirty play comes near the intensity of Zuniga's knee-on-back flying assault on Neymar. To say "oh that was a violent game, fouls everywhere, a pity this happened but oh well, could've been anyone" is simply wrong, because there was no other strike against anyone's back. Tactical fooling is indeed a catastrophe for football, it is indeed a staple of modern Brazilian football (which we learned from the Argentinians, Uruguayans, Italians, 2010 Netherlands, among others), but it's not the same as jumping knee-up on someone's back. James Rodriguez was fouled all the time to stop his play, but nobody made an assault on his spine. Nobody tried to knock him out of the game. He left the game walking entirely unharmed. If a brute like Fernandinho wanted to injure him, he would have done so.

So the assault on Neymar was above and beyond the dirty play which did abound in that game, by both sides. And if you want to know, the second most violent foul of the game was also committe by Zuniga, against Hulk's knee on the first half, and also deserved a red card. But that's what I would call "bad dirty play", so it's still not comparable to what he did to Neymar later, despite being pretty bad.

His strike against Hulk's knee (try to find a single foul against James Rodriguez as violent as this one, to say nothing of the knee on back assault on Neymar, which is banned on freaking UFC):

Only reason Hulk kept on playing is that he is a muscular monster with far more physical strength and resistance than skill. The opposite of ultra-skilled but skinny Neymar.

Edit: Addressing that "wise" theory that Brazil is better off without Neymar. Right after beating Colombia, before news on Neymar's condition, Brazil was the favorite to beat Germany on the betting markets (55%-45%) and the favorite to win the WC. Now Germany is the favorite to beat Brazil, and Argentina is the favorite to win the WC, followed by Germany. So betters are seeing Neymar's broken back as nothing short of apocalyptic for Brazil's chances at winning, and it's very hard to argue they're wrong. We obviously went from favorites to underdogs.

 

[Quackers]

I'm not sure any other player would have been able to withstand that foul. Hulk's status as a physical specimen saved him there, you could imagine Oscar's anterior cruciate ligament rupturing in that moment.

 

[luiz]

I'm not sure any other player would have been able to withstand that foul. Hulk status as a physical specimen saved him there, you could imagine Oscar's anterior cruciate ligament rupturing in that moment.

Absolutely, guys like Oscar, Neymar, Bernard and co. would be gone for a long time after receiving such malicious and violent blow. Hulk's superhuman strength saved him there (if only he could play football, think of the potential).

But I think that picture illustrates just how "innocent" that great chap Zuniga is. It's a mystery why FIFA will punish him (part of the big Brazilian Conspiracy no doubt. Brazil being such a rich and powerful country we have this Europe-based institution FIFA doing our bidding against poor and powerless Germany & co.)

 

[ThERat]

I have a feeling the guy who wrote the excellent piece posted by Arwon is some CFC member who had luiz as his prime example

Timsup2nothin, sure it wasn't you?

 

[Gucumatz]

@ chart on last page

For some reason I think that chart is a bit off. For starters - Brazil beat germany in the 2002 final

 

[ThERat]

Actually, the number of times Germany and Brazil met are far and few between. I can only recall the 2002 final and some 4-1 victory of Brazil in the very early 80s.

 

[W|M]

@ chart on last page

For some reason I think that chart is a bit off. For starters - Brazil beat germany in the 2002 final

That's the only time Brazil and Germany (not including East Germany) have ever played against each other in a World Cup

 

[Marla_Singer]

See, that is the problem. We should have earned the world cup long ago. Yet we didn't. Let's face it, it is a grave injustice!

We have the skills and the talent, yet bad luck always follows in our wake. We are like the Gordon Freeman of national football teams, hence his orange HEV suit.

I agree, that's undeserved.

I think my largest despair was probably in 2006, when we were so close... leading the game... then getting an equalizer... then Zidane's red card... then nothing.

Losing in final is tough.

Now I guess few of us have seen Cruyff's team playing in the 1970's... so the living memory is more in the elder generation. But anyway, maybe this year will be yours. If there's a team that can beat the Germans at this world cup, it's probably the Netherlands. But granted, there are still semi-finals against both home teams to be played before that could happen!

 

[Marla_Singer]

Absolutely, guys like Oscar, Neymar, Bernard and co. would be gone for a long time after receiving such malicious and violent blow. Hulk's superhuman strength saved him there (if only he could play football, think of the potential).

Thanks Luiz, you helped me to find out the best way to describe Germany's team: 11 Hulks knowing how to play football.

Those Germans are not only strong and tall, but very good in the passing game.

 

[Marla_Singer]

That's the only time Brazil and Germany (not including East Germany) have ever played against each other in a World Cup

Germany and Brazil both met in a 2005 Confederations cup semi-final.

Okay I know, no one cares of the confederations cup.

 

[Marla_Singer]

@ chart on last page

For some reason I think that chart is a bit off. For starters - Brazil beat germany in the 2002 final

The chart should be read vertically, not horizontally.

I know that's not intuitive, but I haven't found any other way to lay this out.