269 and 269

269-269 would indeed be an interesting situation. Only one elector need to change his vote (not voting for the candidate he's representing) and the USA will get a president who no one expects.

I wonder if such an elector can be found. Although I guess that offering some money can do the job.
 
AVN said:
269-269 would indeed be an interesting situation. Only one elector need to change his vote (not voting for the candidate he's representing) and the USA will get a president who no one expects.

I wonder if such an elector can be found. Although I guess that offering some money can do the job.

In some states electors can be prosecuted if they don't vote in line with the majority of voters in that state, but in other states there are no penalties for doing so.
 
Perfection said:
Now here's the kicker, the vice-president is picked by the senate if the democrats can achieve a sweeping senatorial victory (which is not out of the realm of possibilities) then we'd end up with Bush as president and Edwards as vice-president. How weird is that?

Not out of the realm of possibility but highly unlikely nonetheless.
 
I have this posted on my door. (I live in a dorm.) I hope to convince people to vote. I personally want a Bush-Edwards team.
 
Or how about this scenario:

If the House of Respresentatives cannot select a president by January 20th, the Vice President becomes the President. Meaning either John Edwards or Dick Cheney would be the president. :crazyeye:

This is a great time of year to refresh your knowledge of the constitution. :D
 
one interseting note about this: the senate picks the VP, and if 2 senators like edwards more than cheney, and the independant votes edwards, it would be a tie. cheney would break that tie. If i were him i'd wait until january 19th to break that tie, have some fun :evil:

EDIT: for the record, it's not the new senate that picks the VP, it's the current one (the constitution says ballot shall be taken "immediatly"
 
that would be awesome, we can only pray that this happens, i'd love to see john kerrys heart break into even smaller pieces...
 
ybbor said:
EDIT: for the record, it's not the new senate that picks the VP, it's the current one (the constitution says ballot shall be taken "immediatly"
Actually it will be the new senate since the first duty of the new senate is to open the ballots for president and vice-president and count them. Although Dick Cheney will preside since he holds office until Jan 20th @ noon. Once again though Dick Cheney, could single-handedly vote himself into office.

The "immediately" part means after the votes of the Electorial College have been counted on Jan 3rd.
 
Here's another 269/269 that's possible.

I know a Bush-Edwards scenario sounds cool, but it really wouldn't be. Nor is it likely. If a tie were to happen, the Republicans would be re-elected.

Eventually, the Electoral College will go down in the courts, forcing states to split their vote. Or so I imagine.
 

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What makes this really interesting is when you ad faithless electors into the mix.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/101404A.html

It's simple. Shedding a vote would still send the election to the House. Currently, the Republicans would handily win a vote between Bush and Kerry. Democratic electors thus have an incentive to get a third candidate on the House ballot -- particularly a centrist who could draw moderate Republicans into a coalition with the House Democrats to defeat Bush. To succeed, it would have to be a prominent moderate Republican, and it would have to be someone willing to attempt a revolt in the Republican party. It would almost have to be John McCain.
John McCain in 2004! :)
 
Cu Chulainn said:
What makes this really interesting is when you ad faithless electors into the mix.

http://www.techcentralstation.com/101404A.html

John McCain in 2004! :)

I just read that article. This'd be like Survivor. Alliances made. Trying to pull a Republican/Democrat elector over. Do you trust this elector? Are you sure s/he isn't working as a double agent (tells the other party, "I'll swing, giving you 270 to 268" and then works within his/her own party to put a radical candidate in)?

Ah, this would be so fun to watch. And if anyone thought the country was divided after 2000....
 
Either way, I'm moving to Canada.

For the record:

Nebraska selects it's elector on a the basis of individual US House Districts - each of it's three House districts elects an individual elector. The overall winner of the state vote gets the remaining two electors.

Two of Maine's four electoral votes are awarded based on the winner of the statewide election. The other two go to the highest vote-getter in each of the state's two congressional districts.

Colorado is voting today on a constitutional amendment which would mandate that it's 9 electoral votes be divided up in according to the division of the popular vote. If impleamented, for example, Candidate A gets 33% of Colorado's votes, and Candidate B gets 66%. Candidate A would get 3 electors, and Candidate B would get 6. IIRC, polls show the vote basically split down the middle.
 
Octavian X said:
Either way, I'm moving to Canada.

For the record:

Nebraska selects it's elector on a the basis of individual US House Districts - each of it's three House districts elects an individual elector. The overall winner of the state vote gets the remaining two electors.

Two of Maine's four electoral votes are awarded based on the winner of the statewide election. The other two go to the highest vote-getter in each of the state's two congressional districts.

Colorado is voting today on a constitutional amendment which would mandate that it's 9 electoral votes be divided up in according to the division of the popular vote. If impleamented, for example, Candidate A gets 33% of Colorado's votes, and Candidate B gets 66%. Candidate A would get 3 electors, and Candidate B would get 6. IIRC, polls show the vote basically split down the middle.

No way Nebraska would ever split. Maine isn't going to. Last time I checked, the Colorado split was going down too. No split electors.

Either way, I already moved to Canada :)
 
All the more reason why the Electoral College is a foolish concept. It has corruption written all over it.
 
Octavian X said:
Colorado is voting today on a constitutional amendment which would mandate that it's 9 electoral votes be divided up in according to the division of the popular vote. If impleamented, for example, Candidate A gets 33% of Colorado's votes, and Candidate B gets 66%. Candidate A would get 3 electors, and Candidate B would get 6. IIRC, polls show the vote basically split down the middle.
It won't pass (I don't think it will even be close). Making it retroactive for the 2004 election, making the state irrelevant in the national election, and it being proposed by a Brazilian living in California doomed it. Historically, if people here are not certain about an amendment it fails. This amendment makes good news, but it isn't nearly as interesting as the news makes it out to be.
 
It's happened before. The 19th century was full of interesting electorial college numbers. There were ties, and even one race where no canidate had the number of electorial votes required (4 canidates running for that election).
 
Stegyre said:
Yes, it is "weird," and imho, we only do it that way because it is "set-in-stone" in the Constitution.

You may be interested to know that in many States, the State legislators (i.e., the Representatives and/or Senators who serve at your State capital, rather than in Washington) were once elected on a similar basis: a State was divided geographically (typically by county), and each county might have its own State Senator. This meant that, in terms of representation, one voter in a rural county held many, many times the voting power of a voter in an urban county.

That form of representation was challenged, and the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional. See Baker v. Carr, http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=369&invol=186 This is the famous (for some of us) "one person, one vote" case. To give some perspective, according to my Fed Courts Professor, back when, this was the case identified by Chief Justice Earl Warren as the most significant of his tenure - keep in mind that his tenure also included the perhaps better-known decision Brown v. Board of Education, which ordered the desegregation of public schools.

Anyway, that's probably more than you cared to know. I just hope someone found it interesting.

As for the current system, it is enshrined in the Constitution, and it will require a Constitutional Amendment to change it. Each election cycle, at least some people gripe about it; typically, those who expect their candidate may win the popular vote yet lose the electoral vote. (Those who expect the reverse can gloat, instead.) Imho, as long as everyone knows the rules - and plays by them - we have procedural fairness.

A partial fix to the problem, to at least make the electoral college more representative of the popular vote, would be to divide up each State's electoral votes according to its popular vote. That is a decision that can be made on a State-by-State basis, and some States have chosen to do so. (Regrets: I cannot name any off the top of my head.) The reasons this is not more popular are two-fold. First, whichever party has the power to do this in a particular State has no incentive to do so: they would be essentially giving electoral votes to the opposing party. (This is one of those "power corrupts" problems that disgusts me with both parties.) Second, a State that adopts this approach necessarily loses some influence in the national election. Think about how much Ohio, Florida, and other swing States have been courted by the candidates. Without the winner-take-all system in place most places, the candidates wouldn't have nearly the same incentive to court the voters there rather than the voters of, say, California or Texas.

My apologies for writing too darn much.


No need to apologize, your post was helpful and informative. Just to clarify, though, there are at least several states (and I think, most of the 50) that have a bicameral state legislature similar to the federal one - representatives and senators, the former chosen by population-based district and the latter varying but frequently by county. I assume SCOTUS struck down the senators-without-representatives unicameral setup.
 
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