3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[Rekk]

....yes?
Are you suggesting they shouldn't get the free promotion that the basic Rifleman gets?

Whoops; forgot that it was a Rifleman promotion.

 

[pineappledan]

v74 is probably a ways off still. Some bug fixes etc, but swapping 2 unique units is a tall order.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Depends. Will I even get to the late game without either being irr or the others being irr
Will have to see if the patch is the cause or something else messing it up

 

[Rekk]

I replicated the error. For now I will just can that bonus. Maybe we can think of something else at another time, but the early unlock, move after attack and free blockade promotion stand on their own for now.

Could you give the longship the ability to found cities like a cross between the conquistador and the Nau? Or would the lack of a) land units to defend and potentially b) inability to choose where to found, make this suggestion DoA?

 

[pineappledan]

v74 is live:

v74:
- Reworked
    - Adds the Amazonas as the unique unit for Brazil, replacing the Pracinha
    - Adds the Stormtrooper as the unique unit for Germany, replacing the Ulfhedinn
- Bugfixes 
    - lua fix for Latifundia
    - small text fixes

 

[Legen]

About the E-temenanki "yields on investment" proc. The issue is that the proc can be maximized by relocating citizens (notably specialists) and tiles shared with satellite cities just before investing to maximize how much food and science you get from the proc, then relocate all those citizens and tiles back to what they were, before you end the turn. Which is a chore to do, relocating dozens of specialists and tiles every time you want to invest anywhere in the empire. It is also something that the AI probably doesn't know how to do, making it an abusable feature for a human player.

I'd like the proc to rely on something else than the Capital's yields per turn, so that you don't have to do this citizen shuffling all the time for optimal use of the UB. For instance:

"Whenever you invest in a building on empire, gain 6 Science and Food in the Capital for every Great Scientist born/expended in the empire."

On a thematic note, would it be ok for the E-temenanki to have some references to the sexagesimal base that the Babylonians used? The UB is unlocked at Mathematics, for which the Babylonian heritage is well known and still used to this day, so it would be interesting for the UB to make some references to that. The 6 yields on investment I proposed is an example of how to add it in the UB, and other parts could use that as well, like "30 Culture on citizen birth".

 

[Bruhmoment]

Guys looks like we're moving Germany into Z tier now
they don't really have any synergy with their UA now (speaking about your tweaks)

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Guys looks like we're moving Germany into Z tier now
they don't really have any synergy with their UA now (speaking about your tweaks)

All I know is that having promos carry over through Swords -> Shneckt --> Storm, is going to leave you with some absolutely menacing Infantry.

 

[pineappledan]

Yeah, 1 free promo for sword, then 3 from Landsknecht, then another 2 free for stormtrooper, plus entrenchments. Could be pretty nasty

Guys looks like we're moving Germany into Z tier now
they don't really have any synergy with their UA now (speaking about your tweaks)

The blood and iron rework is a major buff, so much that I’ve already nerfed the friend/ally rewards and it’s still probably too strong. Giving Germany extremely cheap/free units until medieval is not going to help with balancing that.

 

[Hinin]

Plus the bonus from Lightning Warfare : 4 MP infantry with Blitz during the Modern Era.

 

[DoodlesTheDragon]

edit edit: I'm also a firm believer that the Modern era is for ideology units, and the Pracinha is stacked with Order's Guerilla. Germany's old UU1 was also a modern-era base unit (tank), but it wasn't stacked on an existing ideology unit.

Is the Stormtrooper now stacked with Order's Guerilla? If so, is that bad?

If you wanted a non-stacked Modern German unique that fits with Bismarck's kit I'd choose the U-Boat and give it the Blockade promotion(among others)*. That way you could spend Gold and Production to rush out a U-Boat fleet, declare on your biggest rivals, destroy their maritime economies without taking their cities(to avoid warmonger score), then use the money you stole to buy votes in the World Congress, buy diplo units, pay for your rivals to war each other, etc.

Make a calculated investment to enrich yourself to win a diplo victory and cripple your enemies without being labelled a warmonger.

*I've forgotten that Submarines don't come until Atomic era in Vox Populi. To fix this, the German U-Boat is super early at the beginning of the Modern Era.

 

[KaoticKanine]

Not gonna lie, I'm gonna miss the Ulfhedinn. While Germany may be a young country, the Germanic people have been around at least as long as the Romans and that UU was an acknowledgement of that. But I can understand replacing the Ulfhedinn with the Stormtroopers.

 

[pineappledan]

Is the Stormtrooper now stacked with Order's Guerilla? If so, is that bad?

If you wanted a non-stacked Modern German unique that fits with Bismarck's kit I'd choose the U-Boat and give it the Blockade promotion(among others)*. That way you could spend Gold and Production to rush out a U-Boat fleet, declare on your biggest rivals, destroy their maritime economies without taking their cities(to avoid warmonger score), then use the money you stole to buy votes in the World Congress, buy diplo units, pay for your rivals to war each other, etc.

Make a calculated investment to enrich yourself to win a diplo victory and cripple your enemies without being labelled a warmonger.

*I've forgotten that Submarines don't come until Atomic era in Vox Populi. To fix this, the German U-Boat is super early at the beginning of the Modern Era.

No, the stormtrooper is a modern era Rifleman replacement. It upgrades into the Infantry unit in Atomic, or Guerilla if you have adopted Order.

I got a really hostile reaction from people when I suggested the U-boat in another thread.

Not gonna lie, I'm gonna miss the Ulfhedinn. While Germany may be a young country, the Germanic people have been around at least as long as the Romans and that UU was an acknowledgement of that. But I can understand replacing the Ulfhedinn with the Stormtroopers.

I have left the ulfhedinn in the code so you can reactivate it if you prefer. Same as I did with the Egyptian khopesh

 

[DoodlesTheDragon]

No, the stormtrooper is a modern era Rifleman replacement. It upgrades into the Infantry unit in Atomic, or Guerilla if you have adopted Order.

Oh good. Didn't realize until now that the Pracinha was an early Infantry, and so the Stormtrooper doesn't have the same problem. Which also fixes the reason I brought up the U-Boat.

I got a really hostile reaction from people when I suggested the U-boat in another thread.

Ah. Well, if it has no popular support, then it ain't Vox Populi, so nevermind on that idea. I like the Stormtrooper a lot and don't think it needs to be replaced(like it about as much as the U-Boat idea), so here's hoping it's overall reception is popular.

 

[Rekk]

Could you give the longship the ability to found cities like a cross between the conquistador and the Nau? Or would the lack of a) land units to defend and potentially b) inability to choose where to found, make this suggestion DoA?

Or it could expend itself to create a settler, similar to the Philipino Balangay?

 

[KlHannibal2]

All I know is that having promos carry over through Swords -> Shneckt --> Storm, is going to leave you with some absolutely menacing Infantry.

They will still be much weaker than the Panzer that got deleted.

Any chance to get the Panzer back insted of the stormtrooper?

 

[Bruhmoment]

They will still be much weaker than the Panzer that got deleted.

Any chance to get the Panzer back insted of the stormtrooper?

Stormtroopers fine but comes too late
Sure you can have insane promotion guys but will they survive for long enough?

 

[pineappledan]

They will still be much weaker than the Panzer that got deleted.

Any chance to get the Panzer back insted of the stormtrooper?

The plan is for @amateurgamer88's new ideologies mod to add the T-34 as a unique tank for the Order tree, and making the base tank use the panzer model/icon

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Stormtroopers fine but comes too late
Sure you can have insane promotion guys but will they survive for long enough?

Well, in my current game (standard speed/settings, King diff) I'm sitting on 35 Sknecht as I upgrade into Fusilier -- this is what survived after taking 3 cities in a war, and what I could pump out before swords obsolete at Gunpowder -- and I'm Progress, so no Authority unit prod bonus. I also didn't buy a single Sknecht... I could've theoretically bought another 15 Swordsmen if my iron supply allowed. Some of the units were even gifted as unique Kris Swordsmen, so they have yet another layer of unique promotions! I'm probably going Order, so if they all become Troopers -> Guerilla, then that's a wrap.

Ohh, and they also all have "Morale". Germany is actually one of my fav 4UC civs to play because they cover one of my main weaknesses: I usually force melee prod through my capital, but the Teutonic Order allows me to compose an army without the worry that I'm not getting full value out of my soldiers; most of my non-dom games sees me playing well below the unit cap, but as Germany I have no issue sustaining a solid military throughout the entire game.

 

[SeaPanther]

Is the old panzer still in the files, if we want to reactivate it?

Also, was Germany's Realpolitik not updated like that poll thread proposed? I thought there was a good brainstorm going on in there.