3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

[Pipiskus]

You seam to like American civs too much, why not add Inuit, Macedonia, Hitties, Goths and lots of others good civs that you put your hand on.They seam far more unique to me though half of those you listed do not exist yet so there is nothing to compare it to..

 

[pineappledan]

If it appears I like the America's too much then it is because civ doesn't like them enough.

The civ franchise badly neglects these cultures, leaving massive areas of the map unpopulated. Civilization is every bit as old in the Americas as it is in Europe and Asia, and yet we have massive overcrowding and overrepresentation of Middle Eastern and Western European factions while entire continents of people go unaccounted for. The languages, material cultures, economies, and technologies of people like the Haida are completely novel to the civ franchise. Meanwhile we have 2 Roman civs, 2 German civs, 2 Iberian civs, 2 Scandinavian civs, 2 British civs, etc. etc. It is estimated that prior to European contact, the America's contained roughly 20% of the world's population. That mass of people, stretching back over 10,000 years of human history, is represented by 5 civs out of 43: Maya, Aztec, Shoshone, Iroquois, and Inca.

To suggest that the Goths are more unique to civ than the Cree is just flat out objectively wrong.

 

[CppMaster]

Could it be that nations in europe were the most diverse in real world?

 

[Agiwan]

Given total design space and freedom to add anything to civ 5 VP I would endeavor to add the following civs, based on my own priorities:

• Chola (Dravidian culture and a terrific way to de-blob India)
• Manchus (Tungusic culture and China deblobber)
• An Amazonian civ (eg. Tupi, Guarani, Marajoaran; we have 2 civs in South America right now and only 1 of them is pre-Colombian)
• A Patagonian/Auricanian civ (eg. Mapuche or Tehuelche; we have 2 civs in South America right now and only 1 of them is pre-Colombian)
• A Pacific Northwest civ (eg. Tlingit or Haida; we have a giant blank spot on the West Coast and only 2 American civs north of Mexico)
• A Mississippian civ (eg. Choctaw, Caddo, Osage; This is the closest thing aside from the PNW that the Americas has to a true civilization with monumental architecture and hierarchical societies north of Mexico, and we currently only have 2 of those)
• An Algic Indigenous civ (eg. Cree, Ojibway; This is one of the largest and most diverse surviving language families with the most surviving speakers, whose original range covers a massive area that has no current representation in civ 5, and we only 2 American civs north of Mexico)

The biggest problem with it is animated leader, do we care about it or not ?

 

[CppMaster]

The biggest problem with it is animated leader, do we care about it or not ?

Not. Static leaders are fine and I don't have any hope for animated ones.

 

[pineappledan]

The biggest problem with it is animated leader, do we care about it or not ?

We have a Manchu animated leader good to go.
We have animations and voice lines for a Cree civ on the workshop, brought in from civ 6. It would be a matter of getting permissions and designing a VP civ around them.
We have a Chola civ that we have animation resources for that I already have permission for. It would be a matter of recording Tamil voice lines for him, and I have connections that can help with that.
Resources exist in civ 6 for a Mapuche civ that can be imported into civ 5. I don't know how to do it, and the guy who did the ones that exist went dark, but it is possible.
The PNW, Amazon, and Mississippian civs would require entirely new creations and that's far less likely to happen, though not completely impossible.

 

[azum4roll]

Not. Static leaders are fine and I don't have any hope for animated ones.

I care about animated leaders, voiceovers and civ music (peace + war).

 

[CppMaster]

I care about animated leaders, voiceovers and civ music (peace + war).

And you would rather not have a civ at all than not having those?

 

[azum4roll]

And you would rather not have a civ at all than not having those?

Yes. It makes the game look off.

 

[CppMaster]

Ok, then we just fundamentally disagree on this. I don't spend much time on a leader screen anyway and I don't really play civ5 for the looks. It'd be shame to not include some well made civs, just because they lack 3D animations, which are not easy to do.

 

[hokath]

I always play with leaderscreen set to minimum for crash resilience.
But for inclusion into the main mod -- which I don't see myself ever voting for anyway tbh -- it would have to be the same standard as the other civs, so it would need the (edit) animated leaderscreen.

 

[CppMaster]

I always play with leaderscreen set to minimum for crash resilience.
But for inclusion into the main mod -- which I don't see myself ever voting for anyway tbh -- it would have to be the same standard as the other civs, so it would need the leaderscreen.

Usually there is a leader screen, just not animated.

 

[hokath]

 

[pineappledan]

I think that needing a animated and voiced leader scene is more than fair, but I also don’t think we should bother integrating new civs

 

[pineappledan]

v88 is coming, just testing a few last minute things.

This new version is preparing for a 4UC vote.
I'm going to be working on proposal threads and updating documentation in the coming week
I hope most of the changes are to people's liking. Quite a few simplifications and large changes, including some major replacements and reworks.

v88 - 4UC integration update
- Reworked:
    Morocco -     Riad now is a Hotel replacement.
            Gives yields for every 8 buildings already built in the city when the Riad is built.
            No longer gives GMerchant points from gold
    Netherlands -     Waag (Bank) replaced by Doelen (constabulary)
            Removed base bank bonuses and added Constabulary bonuses
            Removed early unlock
            Gives Culture on identifying/capturing spies, 1 Great Work slot and +1 Artist specialist slot
            Doelen still has bonus for every global monopoly
    Venice -     Laguna (Harbor) replaced with Banco Giro (Bank)
            Removed base harbor bonuses and added bank bonuses
            Added Gold converted into GMerchant points each turn (moved from Riad)
            Still gives global boost to 3 unique venetian wonders
    Persia -     Removed Pairidaeza; added new Unique Charbagh improvement
            UI gives food, gold, production, and culture.
            Increased tile yields during Golden Ages
            Increases GP rate in city for each charbagh worked
    Rome -         Colosseum (Arena) replaced with Fornix (Heroic Epic)
            Unique UNW that can be built again every time you kill an opponent, including city-states
            triggers a WLTKD on completion
    Aztec -     Floating Garden removed (effectively moved to Egypt)
            New UB: Telpochcalli (Barracks replacement)
            large science for population scaler
            Gives Food, production, and XP to units trained in city for each Golden Age you trigger (old H Teocalli bonus)
            New unique Warrior: Otomi (Jaguar moved to Longsword)
            Has Woodsman, Survivalism and Barbarian bonus II that is retained on upgrade
    Polynesia -     New UU to replace Koa/Maori Warrior: Vaka Nui (Fishing Boat)
            Gives bonus healing and combat aura to nearby units
            Can build fishing boats and oil platforms without being expended
            Ability to build fishing boats with embarked melee units removed from UA
    Greece -     Agora (Market) removed; replaced with Parthenon (Scrivener's Office)
            Largely the same bonuses (bonus production to diplo units and proxenos promotion)
            Gives additional paper as well
            exposed yields from proxenos to UI. now gives yields to the Parthenon
    Parthenon -     Changed to Nalanda. GRArt replaced with GWWriting
           
- Altered:
    Egypt -     Nilometer no longer places flax.
            Gives bonus to rivers and % food during GA like the old Floating Garden
    Shoshone -     Buffalo Pound no longer places bison.
            Can no longer be built in same city as a water mill.
            Gives gold for each encampment on a tile the city owns
    India -     Now gives +1 city defense for each national and world wonder in the city (scales the culture from defense as well)
    Rome -         Renamed Latifundia to Villa
            No longer built on farm/plantation resources. Now blocked by resources and adjacent cities
            Moved unlock from Calendar to Engineering
            Gives +2 food to capital on empire
    Aztec -     Huey Teocalli no longer gives stacking food, faith, and XP at the start of golden age (moved to Telpochcalli)
            Added +100 passive pressure; pressure is doubled to +200% during golden ages
            Jaguar moved from Warrior to unique longswordsman, effectively taking over the Maori Warrior slot
            Has no strategic requirement. Bonus HP on kill and extra CS vs units below 50 HP (old Khopesh bonus)
    Greece -     Acropolis changed to Gymnasion. Still amphitheatre with most of the same bonuses.
            Defense and tourism removed, added science.
- Simplified:
    Celts-         Oppidum no longer gives HP to cities
    Carthage -     Tophet no longer gives bonus XP to purchased units (moved to main mod UA)
    Assyria -     Iron Chariot base CS increased to 13.
            Excess strategic resource boost lowered from +2 to +1 each (max of 15 CS)
    France -     GPPs for different theming bonuses removed
    Poland -     Barbican now gives free Armory in city instead of a dummy building
    Japan -     Kabuki no longer gives 3 unique guilds. Instant yield bonuses are granted on the Kabuki itself
            Instant Yield calculations reduced
    Mongolia -     Yassa now a standalone UNW. Builds Yassa in all cities on completion.
            No longer removes occupation
    Russia -     Pogost no longer evolves. Simply has yields added to building when certain techs are researched
    Korea -     Chaebol GPP bonus per active TR removed
            Increased bonus to factories to +4 and icreased purchase cost reduction to -25%
            
- Tweaked/modified:
    Byzantium -     Dromon is back to liburna; Greek Fire now reduces healing by 10 and max HP by 20
    Siam -         Wat theming bonus and GW slots removed
    Indonesia -     Djong CS increased from 15 to 18
            Kampong base yield increased by +1 production; removed +1 prod adjacency bonus for fish
            increased dynamite and ecology tech yield increases from +1 food and Science, respectively, to +2
    Removed early/alternate unlocks from:
        - Spanish Armada
        - Spanish Bullring
        - Incan Chasqui
        - Ottoman Great Bombard
        - Dutch Doelen
        - Japanese Yamato
        - Brazilian Amazonas
- Deleted:
    Siam - Wat theming bonus and GW slots removed

 

[pineappledan]

pineappledan updated More Unique Components for Vox Populi with a new update entry:

v88 and 4UC integration

significant changes, reworks, and alterations

Code:
v88 - 4UC integration update
- Reworked:
Morocco - Riad now is a Bank replacement.
Gives yields for every 8 buildings already built in the city when the Riad is built.
No longer gives GMerchant points from gold
Netherlands - Waag (Bank) replaced by Doelen (constabulary)
Removed base bank bonuses and added Constabulary bonuses
Removed early unlock
Gives Culture on...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Efialtis]

I would like to note that the Greek Acropolis primary function was always a stronghold to repel attackers.
Even a minor defensive bonus should be thematically appropriate and thus i wouldnt want to see it removed entirely.
Nvm you intent to remove Acropolis entirely, was too early for my brain to work. Please carry on.

 

[cogwheel]

The Riad is showing up as a Hotel replacement in my game. Is that intended or is it supposed to be a Bank replacement like in the changelog?

 

[hokath]

I think the changelog is the typo: it is supposed to be a hotel.
It was noted that there were too many garden replacements.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Oh, good bye old good Pogost.