I play with 4UC mod and I would happily add more civs that only has 2UCs even with 2 generic components. For now it's only 6 custom civs that are compatible with 4UC.
- Thread starter pineappledan
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Blue Ghost
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I’ll take a crack at it.
What would be an appropriate generic bonus? +1 food/production/gold per city, scaling with era?
They'll be handicapped in war without the extra UU and behind in culture since many UI/UB provide culture. I'd say +1 gold/+1 culture per era would be fine. I wouldn't give too much since other UB don't scale with era.
I was thinking about +10% production in all cities as one of generic bonuses.
Blue Ghost
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+1 culture sounds scary, since that doubles their initial culture at the start of the game. But if people think it works, I can go for it.
pineappledan
Deity
Culture is a bad idea, yes.
Consider how out of control Carthage can get in 4UC, and Dido only gets 1 culture off that shrine. That's often enough to push her over the edge
@StevenV, the E-temenanki bonus food/science on purchase has been redone for the next version. The previous version was using a base +15
/
, scaling with era, as an instant boost. This was not in-line with what the building's text described, or the original design for the building. The building is intended to give +15% of the city's current and per turn as an instant boost whenever a building is invested. So if your capital generates 200 per turn, and 100, and then you invest in a building, you will receive 30 and 15 as an instant boost in the capital.
This was always the intended effect of the building as described in the patch notes, but some wires must have gotten crossed during the coding phase. This is a considerable nerf to the Etemenanki, so it should address the issue you were having with that gigantic capital
@adan_eslavo, I think we are ready to push a v34. Here's the changelog:
Consider how out of control Carthage can get in 4UC, and Dido only gets 1 culture off that shrine. That's often enough to push her over the edge
@StevenV, the E-temenanki bonus food/science on purchase has been redone for the next version. The previous version was using a base +15
/, scaling with era, as an instant boost. This was not in-line with what the building's text described, or the original design for the building. The building is intended to give +15% of the city's current and per turn as an instant boost whenever a building is invested. So if your capital generates 200 per turn, and 100, and then you invest in a building, you will receive 30 and 15 as an instant boost in the capital.This was always the intended effect of the building as described in the patch notes, but some wires must have gotten crossed during the coding phase. This is a considerable nerf to the Etemenanki, so it should address the issue you were having with that gigantic capital
@adan_eslavo, I think we are ready to push a v34. Here's the changelog:
Code:
v34:
CHANGES:
Crime/Distress overhaul
- Old -10/-20/-30/-50 changed to the new -25/-50/-75 for distress/poverty/etc. unhappiness reductions.
- changed crime to distress in all text
Theming bonus overhaul:
Wat => increased tourism bonus when themed, and increased bonus to +3sci/+3Faith when themed
White Tower => increased tourism bonus when themed
Promotion overhaul updates: Slipstream has been removed from the game. affected units have been changed accordingly:
- Prau => Removed Slipstream. Has Pincer promotion for free
- Corsair => removed Slipstream
- Scythed Chariot => removed Slipstream, ZOC ignore added to Rend promotion (note, ZOC is now lost on upgrade)
- Ballista => changed legatus legionis from double movement in open terrain to +1 movement
- Schutzenstand ==> removed building requirements
- Chaebol ==> removed gold for trade routes
- Mughal Fort/Qila ==> Added National wonders to Defense calculation. Reduced Defense to culture conversion to 10%
- Pairidaeza ==> removed 1 culture to all guilds on empire. changed to +5% GA length
- Fale t'ele ==> removed +1g to fishing boats (Polynesia needed a nerf)
- Name changes ==> changed Mughal Fort to Qila. Changed Sauna to Bastu
- Etemenanki ==> instant boost from building investment now scales off the capital's current food and science yields
- Bonus was a static 15 sci/food * Era * Gamespeed before
- Because the formula uses the capital, the building is now restricted to being built in the capital
FIXES:
- Nilometer ==> disabled well for Egypt; AI and puppets won't ever be tricked into building wells instead of Nilometers
- University of Coimbra ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
- Mughal Fort/Qila ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
- Qadi ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
- Baan Chang ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
- Added Faith cost for Kabuki and Sambadrome (reformation belief)
- adjusted faith costs for Pracinha, Prau, Licorne and Fusta. Reduced cost of Licorne
- Added missing faith costs to: Ballista, Hakkapeliitta, Longbowman, Great Galleass, Turtle Ship
- Fixed text for Sabum Kibitum, White Tower, and Great Bombard
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Enrico Swagolo
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I think some components whose primary benefit is +city CS might need buffs after Distress's been implemented. Ork WAAAGH (orange wunz) is not going to be appealing at all now that half of it's merit is not that good, and even before I found it to be only a bit better than Coffee House.
Blue Ghost
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I’m currently working on the generic bonuses; should be done soon. Do you think you can wait to incorporate those changes to v34?
Ok, waiting for the new release to crate a modpack
pineappledan
Deity
I’m in wait and see mode for that stuff right now. I haven’t even tried the new patch myself yet. I’m much wore worried about the Polish Barbican, personally.
One thing about the Dutch Waag, is that banks got a major boost to poverty reduction this patch (-75!), so the Waag did get a buff, of sorts. I gave the Barbican the same -75 on distress, because I don’t see much other use for the building right now, except it squashes unhappiness
That's up to @adan_eslavo's timing, he's got the button.
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Enrico Swagolo
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I'd be okay with Barbican getting a boost especially since it wasn't all that appealing to begin with, but in my opinion Waag kind of sucks. Poverty was not a big problem on current Distress version game because Polders do an amazing job as they're pretty good if spammed with upgrades, bonus merchant wouldn't matter if I can't work it and there's usually better alternatives (Polders), while coming earlier is irrelevant because medieval's the worst era for that if the building isn't a complete must-have like Wat the Constabulary. That's even less noticeable since it's on a tech I typically always follow with Banking soon enough anyway. There's a ton of buildings coming around the same time, by the time I want a Bank built I'd have Banking researched anyway because Distress is nothing to sneeze at, these turns I have 36 Distress on my happy 17-20 city empire (I forgot) and only 9 poverty.
This game I haven't built the regular Bank anywhere but the capital IIRC. +3 Gold for having a Market doesn't do all that much because polders and ua. The rest of the buff is conditional, and this Netherlands game everyone but my vassal and Bismarck have declared war on me because I am aggressive and strong in tech/culture, while my army is not spammy but professional (Sea Beggars, Landsknecht>Tercios, Cannons, etc) so I wouldn't even be getting the full 10CS/20% GP. Unless CS luxuries and the ones I give and not get count as well. It's just sort of weak, I'd rather have Barbican because it can be built fast with Fealty and it isn't dependent on anything.
This Waag is unorky
pineappledan
Deity
I'm unsure of what to do with the Waag at the moment, or if anything necessarily needs to be done. Perhaps the Waag could reduce Spy actions by 25%? I'm Open to suggestions.
@adan_eslavo and @Blue Ghost, I was looking at the code for the Moroccan Riad, and I can't understand why the building's 2
/2
/1
per Trade route on city scales with era and gamespeed. These amounts are a constant, every turn flow, not a 1-time event, so am I right in thinking these should be made static values? It would simplify the code as well.
@adan_eslavo and @Blue Ghost, I was looking at the code for the Moroccan Riad, and I can't understand why the building's 2
/2/1 per Trade route on city scales with era and gamespeed. These amounts are a constant, every turn flow, not a 1-time event, so am I right in thinking these should be made static values? It would simplify the code as well.
Blue Ghost
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Yeah, we can remove the era scaling from the Riad. I don't remember why we had the era scaling in the first place.I'm unsure of what to do with the Waag at the moment, or if anything necessarily needs to be done. Perhaps the Waag could reduce Spy actions by 25%? I'm Open to suggestions.
@adan_eslavo and @Blue Ghost, I was looking at the code for the Moroccan Riad, and I can't understand why the building's 2
I added the update for the generic bonuses. Any civ without an entry in the Civilization_4UCSupport table will receive a generic bonus of +1 food/production/gold in every city, scaling with era. Feel free to modify this for balance however you wish.
Wouldn't it fawor wide empires more? How about +5% food/production/gold in every city, so Tradition empires wouldn't be much worse.
pineappledan
Deity
It's never going to be everything to everyone.
That's why I advocated for individual modders to add their own trait/unit steroids, rather than a blanket fix-all.
General bonuses should be for everyone.
Of course that would be way better. However, it would also require much more work, so general bonus might be a good compromise until UC are done. It won't affect current civilizations with 4UC mod, so why not
HungryForFood
Prince
Whoever's doing the generic civ bonus (@Blue Ghost?), how are you planning to detect what civs have 4 UCs and what civs don't?
pineappledan
Deity
@HungryForFood, here's the link for the table that custom civs can be added onto.
Your 4 civs that have 4UC have already been added by BG
Your 4 civs that have 4UC have already been added by BG
HungryForFood
Prince
Ok cool, I assume I just need to add any new civ with support to the same table then.
FoxOfWar
Prince
Started playing again, this time took Bismarck for a ride.
Slaganz, in my opinion, really feels like it wants the Woodsman (IIRC, the one with movement bonus in forest), especially since it's now only one CS above Warrior. The feel and the flavor basically screams 'I am good in forested terrain', but in practice they aren't - at the moment.
In turn, could maybe make the bonus vs. barbarians smaller, like 30%?
True, it would make Slaganz more like Jaguar, but I think still different enough given how different the two civs are in other regards and gameplay goals - Germany wants to use Slaganz for early diplomatic gains, whereas Aztecs undoubtedly want to leverage early Jaguars to nominate some borders to their neighbour's doorstep.
Will post about the other uniques once I get there, but this is my early game observation.
Slaganz, in my opinion, really feels like it wants the Woodsman (IIRC, the one with movement bonus in forest), especially since it's now only one CS above Warrior. The feel and the flavor basically screams 'I am good in forested terrain', but in practice they aren't - at the moment.
In turn, could maybe make the bonus vs. barbarians smaller, like 30%?
True, it would make Slaganz more like Jaguar, but I think still different enough given how different the two civs are in other regards and gameplay goals - Germany wants to use Slaganz for early diplomatic gains, whereas Aztecs undoubtedly want to leverage early Jaguars to nominate some borders to their neighbour's doorstep.
Will post about the other uniques once I get there, but this is my early game observation.
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