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3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    The basic warrior upgrade is +33% vs barbarians. A +30% promotion would be a nerf from the base unit.
    I think that we were very deliberate in making sure Slaganz did NOT have any bonuses to movement, but they are 20% cheaper than a warrior, so you can get 2 Slaganz relatively quickly and easilly
     
  2. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

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    Yeah, after mulling it over this does make sense. Also something I initially missed: you can get at a fairly reasonable rate converted barbarians with their bonus movement 'walker' buffs. Tercios and Crossbowmen with double movement on hills AND forests (or hills AND desert, etc.) are pretty sweet.

    So no changes required.

    Also, Teutonic Order feels like it hits a right spot, given that you also get Hanse just a tiny bit later and after that you have real powerhouse potential if you've managed to convert at cap/overcap army with Slaganz by then. Add any mix of Alhambra, Honor policy, Order and/or Crusader Spirit, and you've got... quite a few +10% bonuses. Nothing special, but a real potential for real raw power at that stage in the game and afterwards. Which kind of fits, flavor-wise.

    EDIT: I also really dun derped. If you have civ-specific events active, Germany's second event gives all land units the Woodsman promotion. So... yeah. Nevermind me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  3. kenneth1221

    kenneth1221 Warlord

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    Speaking of Germany, I've been wondering what a good approach with them would be. Do you guys find Progress or Authority a better starter? The Slaganz and Teutonic Order are pretty strongly oriented towards conquest, but the Slaganz is the only component that really kicks in at the Ancient Era.
     
  4. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Prince

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    I went with some Slaganz-spam for city-state rep, 'border blobs' (God of Expanse + Authority + nabbing Sovereignty from Tradition + Angkor Wat), expanded slowly at first, amassing an army until I hit Teutonic Order + upgrade my Slaganz towards Pikemen, and found myself ahead in tech enough to start taking my continent with boring-but-strong melee units. (strong enough that I haven't really needed siege units at all o.O)

    Now I am about to hit Industrial, have nearly conquered my continent (5 other civs) and am positively swimming in gold thanks to Tribute.
     
  5. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    You know, I've had this quite a bit since the ranged units got buffed. I've been playing Shaka non-stop, so I assumed it was just him, but maybe not?
     
  6. Paramecium

    Paramecium Prince

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    My problem with the Slaganz is that it cant pass something usefull to its descendants. Bonus vs barbs and convertion barbs is only usefull early in game. And if you not heavenly donate your barbs with potentially good promotions, you dont get really a diplomacy bonus in the early game. Sure, it depends on the map, if you hit +5 here and there, you wont reach that magic 30 so fast ...
     
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Slaganz units can be pretty handy if you keep them in reserve as a sort of anti-CS barbarian invasion deathsquad.
     
  8. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Spy reduction would be interesting, but I have a few other ideas.
    Guild-related bonus
    Add another building to the +3 Gold band, preferably renaissance/industrial one. Maybe Windmill because Netherlands?
    Towns/Villages boost since Polder lost that
    Potentially remove +3 Gold per market, add +1 Gold for each luxury gotten from others (up to 10 gold) to the +2% GP%/+1CS scaler. Makes it less dependent on infrastructure, more on UA

    I disagree, my Germany game I used upgraded Slaganz a few times to convert barbies on small islands after early game. Free influence, and after a few turns of healing the barbie you get even more after you gift him to some CS. It's not worth keeping too many of them, but that's fine.
     
  9. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Let's not forget all the movement promotions the captured barbarian units will be able to pass to their descendants. I usually give all barbarian units without such promotions whenever possible (so that they do not strain my economy), but I keep all the others, because they can be surprisingly effective.
    Also, some barbarian units in the very early game can embark when no one has researched Fishing yet, so they can be used to grab some island ruins.
    Finally, I usually wait for a CS to create a "destroy bb camp" quest before attacking. That way, I gain bb units just before destroying the camp, and I can give these units to the (usually) friendly CS to cement our relation. If the camp was next to the CS, it is even possible to gain a CS alliance very early.

    All in all, I've found that the Slaganz is not the most consistent nor the most beginner-friendly UM, but it can prove quite useful and have an effect for quite a long time.
    If I had to give an additionnal bonus to the unit, I would give it "Medic II" promotion for free, so that it has more survivability and, most importantly, so that capture bbs can heal faster to be given to CS.

    As a sidenote, shouldn't the Hand-Axe be buffed ? As it stands now, it is really nowhere near as powerful as an Archer (only a little more CS, less RCS and one less range), and has become quite a useless unit to capture.
     
    Enrico Swagolo likes this.
  10. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    I'm not fond of buffing the Slaganz - Germany shouldn't have too easy of a start because of their powerhouse potential later on.
     
  11. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Me neither, hence the "if I had too". I'm quite fine with the Slaganz as it is, but I think this units has more utilities that people have yet grasped. :)
     
  12. Paramecium

    Paramecium Prince

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    Which GAs is the Huey Teocalli is it counting. Everyone which happened or only the once after the construction?
     
  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  14. pernas

    pernas Chieftain

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    I've played Netherlands and while I was initially unimpressed with the Waag, it's not actually bad.

    Coming a tech earlier AND costing like half the hammers is pretty huge. I find that Banking is sort of a very marginal tech, and you can ignore it for a long time as Netherlands while boosting your gold income by a lot. It isn't terribly exciting and the bonuses for luxury resources are very negligible, but it isn't Austria levels of bad.
     
  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I'm thinking a 20% decrease to spy effectiveness in city.
    nope. I didn't like it on Persia, and I don't like it here.
    ehh... I like this idea about as much as the spy effectiveness, but it would mean the building would give 12 gold to 4 buildings, so I think it's too much
    We moved that to Russia's Pogost, so I would rather not give them the same bonus
    That's just what the UA already does, more or less, so I would avoid that.
     
  16. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    Banking isn't marginal, you need it for Constabularies and it and Printing Press are right on the way to your final, second Polder buff that doubles it's base Production and Gold (from 1/2 to 2/4). It's immense, it can be easy +100 GPT as soon as you hit the tech.

    Spy decrease is fine too, maybe enemies will steal less of that insane gold I can get as Netherlands. I just realised it costs 150 less production (normal speed) by checking the sql files which makes it decent, all that crazy Netherlands Gold will be converted to Science easier. Description should probably mention it is cheaper, though. Does Wat mention it's cheaper than Constabulary?
     
  17. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Generally speaking, buildings that are available earlier are cheaper, and it is rarely mentioned. Earlier buildings are always faster to build as a rule, so coming earlier and being cheaper are implied together. I think Ostrog makes a point of mentioning it is cheaper, but it's like 300 cheaper, so it's really big

    Units are the same -- if they are earlier, like Berserker, they are cheaper. Also, even though they are cheaper, Maori warrior do not advertise this, even though they are a lateral shift on the tech tree, rather than an earlier unlock
     
  18. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Just wanted to point out that, in the Strategy part of the civilopedia article for the Mandekaly cavalry, it is mentionned that the unit is cheaper than the Horseman. I think this part should be reworked a bit.
     
  19. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    As we await the release of the next version I have a question, does Waag count only imported luxuries as the text implies, or do exports count as well? If the former, I don't think I'll ever get the max 10CS/+20%GP without paying AI so much for resources that don't proc my UA, it'd just not ever be worth just a 2%. The lua I found on github implies it's the latter, though.
    iTradedResources = iTradedResources + pPlayer:GetResourceImport(res.ID) + pPlayer:GetResourceExport(res.ID)
    Do CS resources also count? If they do the text shouldn't mention empires, but just "any imported or exported resource" so it's more clear how to be a proper Ork
     
  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Mandekalu text has been fixed. Waag text has been changed to "Imports and Exports from Other Civilizations"

    V 34 is live:
    Code:
    v34:
    - changes:
        - Crime/Distress overhaul
            - Old -10/-20/-30/-50 changed to the new -25/-50/-75 for distress/poverty/etc. unhappiness reductions.
            - changed crime to distress in all text
    
        - Theming bonus overhaul:
            Wat => increased tourism bonus when themed, and increased bonus to +3sci/+3Faith when themed
            White Tower => increased tourism bonus when themed
    
        - Promotion overhaul updates: Slipstream has been removed from the game. affected units have been changed accordingly:
    
            Prau => Has Pincer promotion for free
            Corsair => removed Slipstream
            Scythed Chariot => removed Slipstream, ZOC ignore added to Rend promotion
        - Turtle ship ==> changed from 2 moves and double move in coast to 4 moves and half move in ocean
        - Waag ==> added -20% spy stealing rate in city
        - Ballista ==> changed legatus legionis from double movement in open terrain to +1 movement
        - Latifundia ==> reduced build time to 12 turns (down from 18)
        - Schutzenstand ==> removed building requirements
        - Chaebol ==> removed gold for trade routes
        - Riad ==> removed scaling by Era and gamespeed from the gold/culture/GMP per trade route
        - Mughal Fort/Qila ==> Added National wonders to Defense calculation. Reduced Defense to culture conversion to 10%
        - Pairidaeza ==> removed 1 culture to all guilds on empire. changed to +5% GA length
        - Fale t'ele ==> removed +1g to fishing boats (Polynesia needed a nerf)
        - Name changes ==> changed Mughal Fort to Qila. Changed Sauna to Bastu
        - Etemenanki ==> instant boost from building investment now scales off the capital's current food and science yields
                - Bonus was a static 15 sci/food * Era * Gamespeed before
                - Because the formula uses the capital, the building is now restricted to being built in the capital
      
    - fixes:
        - Added Faith cost for Kabuki and Sambadrome (reformation belief)
        - adjusted faith costs for Pracinha, Prau, Licorne and Fusta. Reduced cost of Licorne
        - Nilometer ==> disabled well for Egypt; AI and puppets won't ever be tricked into building wells instead of Nilometers
        - University of Coimbra ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
        - Mughal Fort/Qila ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
        - Qadi ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
        - Baan Chang ==> altered dummy buildings so they are exposed to UI
        - Added missing faith costs to: Ballista, Hakkapeliitta, Longbowman, Great Galleass, Turtle Ship
    
        - fixed text for Sabum Kibitum, White Tower, Waag, Mandekalu Cavalry, and Great Bombard
    
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
    Moi Magnus, FoxOfWar, Rafs and 5 others like this.

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