3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

Tambo administers/ guards -> qullqa stores -> medicinal use of coca consumption -> increased worker rate/better attack in mountains

It’s 3 degrees of separation. If you want a unique promotion you can’t base it off what the coca did because, without coca, none of this makes sense.

Quechua people, ones who still identify with this history, are a living breathing culture. We can’t make sh!t up like we can with Huns or Carthage. We agonized over what to pick and what bonuses to give for Poland, I don't see why we can't extend the same courtesy to Peru.

- Tambos garrisoned troops and served as way-stations/inns (the bonus healing on units in city)
- Tambos administered the local qullqas ( to granaries and to itself)
- Qullqas guarded by tambos stored coca, part of a royal monopoly on the substance (coca luxury resource)
- Tambos were an extension of the Incan centrally-planned economy, and brought disparate regions and cultures into contact by forming a relay system of communications, intel and trade (increased gold from )

That was my logic. Having tambos give a free promotion is fine, but I will take more time for research to find something appropriate. If coca is going to be tossed I think there’s little incentive to keep tambo at all. The same thing that sinks tambo (coca implementation) also likely sinks qullqa as a unique granary idea. Very little is known about the yachaywasi, but a significant amount is known about Incan astronomy and the use of the intihuatana. Having a unique building that is normally available via policy freely available to a civ through tech is very unique, it could help us spread Inca out more, into the medieval, and we have material to draw from.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I'm not so tied to Tambo that we couldn't change it.
I fixed Slaganz.
NewText.xml file need to be fixed @pineappledan. You add something that broke it and I have no time to comment each part ourt to find it. Probably some end mark like </row> is missing and whole file cannot load up.

 

[pineappledan]

NewText.xml file need to be fixed @pineappledan. You add something that broke it and I have no time to comment each part ourt to find it. Probably some end mark like </row> is missing and whole file cannot load up.

I'll have to check that out later, tonight is a bad night for debugging (belated Valentine's day), but I will try to get on that saturday

@adan_eslavo can you tell me exactly when you had last checked the texts and loaded them up? I don’t know how far back to go. It could also have been caused by the notifications I attempted to add for Yamato. Could you see if that might be the problem there? I would be unlikely to catch it if ther problem was there

 

[Hinin]

Here are the suggestions I find interesting if we consider the tambo/coca out of the picture (sob).

Ancient UB (Granary - Qullqa) - storehouses for basically everything, not just agricultural products. The Inca had a central command economy at very high altitudes, so they were vulnerable to food shortages. The Qullqa stored potatoes, building materials, feathers, luxuries, tributes. Royal Qullqas housed the entire coca production of the Inca empire, which held a monopoly on coca, and distributed it to chieftains, nobility and for diplomatic purposes

I don't know if it possible to code, but an interesting take on that building could be that a city with this building can't have negative food (it will stagnate, at worst) : it would allow interesting strategies (like allowing you to put all your Citizens on production tile/specialists).
Other than that, the building could also give food for each farm/terrace farm within 3 tiles of the city (so that you don't have to work the tiles to obtain a bit of food in the city).
I'm not sure in the end of the real value of my ideas here...

Ancient/Classical/medieval UB (Caravansary/Customs House/Barracks - Tambo) - Relay station, Inn, Barracks, Administrative compound all rolled into one. They kept Chasquis ready to run messages, but also housed imperial garrisons and controlled the local Qullqas

We've been talking about the tambo/chasqui for a while now. The only other caravansary replacement offers no advantage related to the yields brought by the base building, so giving bonus related to city connection could be a solution (and it would make the idea of Chasqui building roads less absurd ).

Medieval UB (Observatory - Intihuatana) - literally "the hitching post of the sun", an Intihuatana was a structure used as part of the astronomic clock by Inca priests. There are several extant examples of Intihuatana which were used to mark the time for planting and at what altitude.
- The idea would be to have Inca be able to build observatories without the prerequisite policy, and much earlier. Perhaps giving a boost to Intihuatanas if the prerequisite policy was also later adopted by the player

This idea makes sense (the Incas are, in the terms of Gazebo, a hybrid food/science civilization after all in VP) but, as we said, it would bring a lot of problems linked to the Rationalism policy tree. This could be a Medieval era building giving a mix of faith and science, but its lateness would prevent the Inca to become a "religious" civilization.

 

[pineappledan]

Interesting idea for Qullqa, @Hinin

How about this then?

Spoiler :

Qullqa (Granary)
1Maintenance
65
+1 Food, +2 Production (up from +1 only)
+1 for every Mountain within 3 tiles of the City.
City Cannot enter Starvation (if city has negative , building generates extra food (current city food*-1)
15% of City's is added to current production after a new Citizen is born (identical to India's Harappan Reservoir, which gives 25%)
15% of is carried over after a new Citizen is born
Each source of Wheat, Deer, Bananas and Bison worked by this City produces +1 .
Allows to be moved from this City along trade routes inside your civilization.

Need lua for calculating bonus food from starvation.

New Tambo:

Spoiler :

Tambo (Caravansary)
Available at Currency
no maintenance
+2 Gold, +2 Production (up from +1 gold on caravansary)
+2 production to Granaries in city
Earn 20% more Gold from City Connections (up from 10%)
Units in this city heal +5 HP per turn whether or not they take an action, and start their turn with +1 movement
When a Land Trade Route originating here and targeting another Civ is completed, receive a Tourism boost with the Civ based on your recent Culture output.
Land Trade Routes gain +50% Range and +2 Gold
+1 Gold from merchants
+2 Gold from Truffles, +1prod/+1 Culture from Cotton, +1 Gold/+1Prod from Furs, +1Gold/+1Culture from Flax

Need lua for +1 move on unit who starts turn in city

And Intihuatana:

Spoiler :

Intihuatana (Observatory)
Available at Theology (unlike Observatory which is unlocked by Scientific Revolution Policy)
No Maintenance (down from 3)
300 (down from 500, same cost as Garden)
+2 Faith, +2 Science (up from +2 only)
City gains +2 Science and +2Food for every Mountain within 3 tiles of the City. (up from 2 only)
Has 1 Scientist specialist slot
Scientists in city produce +1 Faith

Adopting Scientific Revolution Policy provides +4 to Intihuatana

need lua for change to Scientific Revolution policy. Policies are only set up to modify building Classes, but not building Types.

 

[adan_eslavo]

For +1 move probably this, but I'm not 100% sure and you need to test it before committing:

pUnit:ChangeMoves(60)

The one downside of such code is unit will have visible "5/4 Moves" on its tooltip for that turn.

 

[pineappledan]

My vote would go to intihuatana anyhow. I think the Tambo is a bit boring now, and the Qullqa idea, though very interesting, is completely unsuitable for Inca. Inca has 2 really strong sources of food from its UI and UA, if they ever are in a position of starvation then they are playing terribly.

I don't think the 5/4 thing is bad, it drives home the point that this is not a normal amount of movement

 

[adan_eslavo]

Are you sure you fixed that? I loaded current master branch and issue still exist. Check if you can to be sure. Such things like [ICON_HAPPINESS] don't make files broken. Only icon does not appear. It is something else.

 

[pineappledan]

Try again. There was another issue with the Sambadrome civilopedia, which I just fixed. I think that should do it.

Edit: booted up in my own game and it worked

 

[infidel88]

Are you going to change events/ ask @Enginseer to so it, so that events spawn civ specific units. Like Babylon gets spearmen instead of their new UU.

 

[pineappledan]

Enginseer is amending E&D with some recommendations we made, yes. There were some conflicts WRT some unique units that E&D was re-adding, some events which were very similar to things we were also implementing, etc

 

[Jarula]

I like Tambo camon Pizarro gold...?

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Not a fan of the Granary. Inca seem to strong early game already.

Tambo seems like it could still use something else. Maybe the +1 Move could be all Units next to the City as well?

Intihuatana looks the most interesting and unique to me. You get a Policy Building! It's effects are rather potent as well.


Also was reading on the Kabuki. Looking fwd to that one as well.

 

[Jarula]

Camon guys Inca don't need science give em gold!!!

 

[WoodenThrone]

Given that the Inca is more science-focused on VP, the Intihuatana would be the most suitable out of the three IMO. Plus it helps them buff their ability in worlds where mountains are scarce.

 

[pineappledan]

Camon.

Jarula does have a point though, Incan Gold is a pretty iconic thing. I’m reasonably happy with the intihuatana idea though, so how about this?

Option 1:
Intihuatana - 2/2 for every mountain in 3 range
Inca UA change - mountains give / instead of /.
- the food from mountains is already covered by their UI, which gives food for every adjacent mountain
Unlocking observatory policy gives 5 to every intihuatana

Option 2:
Intihuatana - 2/2 for every mountain.
Inca UA - no change
Unlocking observatory policy gives 2 and 2 for every mountain to intihuatana

 

[WoodenThrone]

Historically speaking, my best bet would be option 1. The Intihuatana was a sundial at best (according to popular theory), so the gold would make more sense if it's located in the mountains by default.

 

[pineappledan]

I like option 1 better too. I’m not sure why the mountains were switched to food in the first place. There was no discussion about it, they were just switched from to one patch after people complained it was OP. It was the faith that made it OP though, no reason to touch the gold.

My reasoning for the gold on intihuatana would be that for the Inca, gold was used in religious rites to the sun (Inti). Gold and the sun are linked by their religion.

My main reason for not liking that is because it spreads the intihuatana out to giving 4 different yields ( ), instead of just 3( )

 

[infidel88]

ok, just my 2 cents about one of my favourite civ. Any improvement related to mountain is like 'win more or suck' situation. If you have mountains, you probably also have hills, so - especially with events - Incas will be very strong. However, if you miss mountains, you can't really use UA, not much use of UI and now UB that doesn't give you a lot?

 

[pineappledan]

Well I guess that depends on how one would define a lot. The UB proposal unlocks observatory more than a full era before you normally could, and reduces the build cost by 40%. I often build observatories in every city for the scientist slot alone. The building also boosts scientists, so it has a modest boost that isn’t situational