pineappledan
Deity
database log file
3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
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pineappledan
Deity
@Hinin, this is excellent that you are doing this. thanks for your hard work, keep it up. I'm slowly working on summary tables of my own, that I hope people will be able to open and edit. I may as well attach them now
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpW90TjL8y8F09X2qTU28UzoIu5Q8kI835YJwWBV1zQ/edit?usp=sharing
I think uploading things onto a single spreadsheet would help us keep track of stuff better
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpW90TjL8y8F09X2qTU28UzoIu5Q8kI835YJwWBV1zQ/edit?usp=sharing
I think uploading things onto a single spreadsheet would help us keep track of stuff better
@pineappledan Instead of NONE word leave blank tile. Will be better to read.
IMPORTANT ISSUE!
Ok, I found the issue with Arsenale di Venezia but.., yeah there is always but. So:
1. Arsenale di Venezia, Muralto Glassworks and Rialto District ARE NOT set as Venezian uniques. If they where they would show up in player choose menu like all Pogost's Stages,
2. They also have unique buuildingclasses with DEFAULT building set. So that's why they show up for EVERYONE.
3. I set up Pogost 2 and 3 differently. I DELETED them from default building too not show up for everyone and set up as unique so they show up in menu.
4. When I choose Pogost 1 to be in guild tech then it is set as last building in tech list and arsenale di venezia shows up (because it is visible by anyone).
5. If I set rialto, murano and arsenale's buildingclass defualt buildnig to null then they dissapear, but also cannot be used.
6. Then I need to set them as uniques and they appear in the menu.
7.SO, what option to choose? I can change Pogost tobe like Arsenale (visible by anyone, needed change in description to tell about 3 stages (2 are not visible in menu)) or change Arsenale to be like Pogost (it will be visible in menu).
8. And last but important thing. When Default building in buildingclasses are set to null then They NOT show up as excluding building, or prereq buildings. The are needed, but player is not informed about in main menu.
IMPORTANT ISSUE!
Ok, I found the issue with Arsenale di Venezia but.., yeah there is always but. So:
1. Arsenale di Venezia, Muralto Glassworks and Rialto District ARE NOT set as Venezian uniques. If they where they would show up in player choose menu like all Pogost's Stages,
2. They also have unique buuildingclasses with DEFAULT building set. So that's why they show up for EVERYONE.
3. I set up Pogost 2 and 3 differently. I DELETED them from default building too not show up for everyone and set up as unique so they show up in menu.
4. When I choose Pogost 1 to be in guild tech then it is set as last building in tech list and arsenale di venezia shows up (because it is visible by anyone).
5. If I set rialto, murano and arsenale's buildingclass defualt buildnig to null then they dissapear, but also cannot be used.
6. Then I need to set them as uniques and they appear in the menu.
7.SO, what option to choose? I can change Pogost tobe like Arsenale (visible by anyone, needed change in description to tell about 3 stages (2 are not visible in menu)) or change Arsenale to be like Pogost (it will be visible in menu).
8. And last but important thing. When Default building in buildingclasses are set to null then They NOT show up as excluding building, or prereq buildings. The are needed, but player is not informed about in main menu.
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pineappledan
Deity
Done. is the tech spread chart easy enough to understand?
And @pineappledan remember that Civilopedia doesn't like non neglish letters umlauts polsih signs etc. They are just spaces when checked in game.
pineappledan
Deity
I honestly had no idea that didn’t work. I’ve got my wife checking through my writing and editing it. I’ll change all the special characters when I get it back from her for the ‘good copy’
Re: the logistics, I would make it like the arsenal and hide it. The other way creates it’s own confusion, since people might think that Russia gets 6 UCs instead of 4 because they get more icons.
Unfortunately this would mean people will only catch the changes in the icons if they look through their city lists at Their buildings
I think that @Blue Ghost is right and that we shouldn’t be changing things’ appearances needlessly, especially if it doesn’t affect gameplay.
This is why I’ve been bugging G to fix the icon for mongolia’s Ger in the base mod, rather than suggesting that we change it ourselves
Re: the logistics, I would make it like the arsenal and hide it. The other way creates it’s own confusion, since people might think that Russia gets 6 UCs instead of 4 because they get more icons.
Unfortunately this would mean people will only catch the changes in the icons if they look through their city lists at Their buildings
I think that @Blue Ghost is right and that we shouldn’t be changing things’ appearances needlessly, especially if it doesn’t affect gameplay.
This is why I’ve been bugging G to fix the icon for mongolia’s Ger in the base mod, rather than suggesting that we change it ourselves
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I can make player events then to inform player.
I think this will be better too.
@Hinin Notes to infantry:
1. Indeed Mehal is OP when connected to Shotelai. Does deleting Cover I help with this. I like Shotelai idea and I would not delete it entirely.
2. We can make Maya Obsidian Pathfinder or Warrior.
3. I don;t like Sentry on Landwehr. Delete it or change to something lost on promo.
4. Carolean has 4 NL promos! I would change at least on to be lost.
5. As I said before, Yellow Brow need some bonus. When compared to Musketer or Carolean it is a lot weaker.
6. Can we lowe cost of Shotelai to be comparable to bereserker. Look at its amount of bonuses.
7. Eagle: sitational double jungle movement?
pineappledan
Deity
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FoxOfWar
Prince
Infantry thoughts:
Shotelai feels OP(or rather, makes Mehal Sefari feel OP), just slightly, but mostly due to connection in same line. I would tweak the not-lost bonuses to be less good, but make unit itself when available better if necessary. We don't want to create situation where Shotelai itself doesn't feel 'worth it' either.
Warrior replacements are a bit iffy, as they become obsolete so very early. I did suggest Babylon's "Legacy" fellow be here though, for - heh - legacy reasons.
As Caroleon becomes a Rifleman replacement, it should accordingly lose the bonus vs. mounted at least.
Yellow Brow needs something allright. What would be fitting I wonder... although maybe just pushing power up to 28-29 could be enough.
Shotelai feels OP(or rather, makes Mehal Sefari feel OP), just slightly, but mostly due to connection in same line. I would tweak the not-lost bonuses to be less good, but make unit itself when available better if necessary. We don't want to create situation where Shotelai itself doesn't feel 'worth it' either.
Warrior replacements are a bit iffy, as they become obsolete so very early. I did suggest Babylon's "Legacy" fellow be here though, for - heh - legacy reasons.
As Caroleon becomes a Rifleman replacement, it should accordingly lose the bonus vs. mounted at least.
Yellow Brow needs something allright. What would be fitting I wonder... although maybe just pushing power up to 28-29 could be enough.
pineappledan
Deity
Are people forgetting that YB also gets bonus from Shoshone's UA? Increaseing the CS to 27 or 28, or making the fights at full carry forward would be enough I think. I don't think they should get any %CS/RCS bonuses, since they already get +% on fortify and "Homeland Guardian"
Fusiliers still have anti-cavalry promotion, so that should stay on Carolean
I am doing a bit of research on the Maya.. could make it a pathfinder, since those get replaced slower. I'm also kicking around the idea of (yet another) longswordsman replacement for the Maya. Apparently around the time of contact with the spanish, elite Maya warriors fought with 2-handed obsidian macahuitls, and wore armour made of cotton wool and halite (rock salt)
Fusiliers still have anti-cavalry promotion, so that should stay on Carolean
I am doing a bit of research on the Maya.. could make it a pathfinder, since those get replaced slower. I'm also kicking around the idea of (yet another) longswordsman replacement for the Maya. Apparently around the time of contact with the spanish, elite Maya warriors fought with 2-handed obsidian macahuitls, and wore armour made of cotton wool and halite (rock salt)
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FoxOfWar
Prince
Regarding unit placements, one thing I keep thinking about, that would give us more 'playground' as it were is the CBO- Enlightenment Era compatibility: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/enlightenment-era-compatibility-contd.610282/
I know fully well that this would mean more work, but this would give us also an era's worth of units that don't have many (if any) unique replacements, between Renaissance and Industrial, something we have been fussling about a bit.
...but now that I think about it, 'tis probably better left for post-fixing if anything. A mod-mod-mod of moving things around in CBO-EE w/ 3UC/4UC, if you will. Something to keep in mind I guess. Sides, not everyone wants to play with EE (I might be one of the few that do.)
Anyway, just a thought. Carry on
I know fully well that this would mean more work, but this would give us also an era's worth of units that don't have many (if any) unique replacements, between Renaissance and Industrial, something we have been fussling about a bit.
...but now that I think about it, 'tis probably better left for post-fixing if anything. A mod-mod-mod of moving things around in CBO-EE w/ 3UC/4UC, if you will. Something to keep in mind I guess. Sides, not everyone wants to play with EE (I might be one of the few that do.)
Anyway, just a thought. Carry on
It can be done after finishing the project as a patch to it. We don't want to force people to use EE. And making now analisys about EE when we are not quite sure how basic UC is balanced is unnecessary complication. Without this I have enough work with balanceRegarding unit placements, one thing I keep thinking about, that would give us more 'playground' as it were is the CBO- Enlightenment Era compatibility: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/enlightenment-era-compatibility-contd.610282/
I know fully well that this would mean more work, but this would give us also an era's worth of units that don't have many (if any) unique replacements, between Renaissance and Industrial, something we have been fussling about a bit.
...but now that I think about it, 'tis probably better left for post-fixing if anything. A mod-mod-mod of moving things around in CBO-EE w/ 3UC/4UC, if you will. Something to keep in mind I guess. Sides, not everyone wants to play with EE (I might be one of the few that do.)
Anyway, just a thought. Carry on
. And I haven't yet started on new UC (shame on me).
pineappledan
Deity
Not to derail the military unit discussion, but have you guys checked out the Latifundium from Uighur_Caesar's Rome? I think it will make a fantastic addition t the 4UC, with just minor tweaks to how the resource spawning works and the yields
Roman UI: Latifundium
So you put it on a resource, and it will spawn a new copy of that resource after about 1/2 an era, which has to be improved with a regular farm/plantation. I think that's terrifically unique.
Roman UI: Latifundium
Spoiler :
Food, +1 
, +2
Gold
at Civil ServiceSo you put it on a resource, and it will spawn a new copy of that resource after about 1/2 an era, which has to be improved with a regular farm/plantation. I think that's terrifically unique.
FoxOfWar
Prince
Yeah, I figured. Just wanted to mention that it is a thing to think about, mostly. ...or just a thing I like to think about. Eh.It can be done after finishing the project as a patch to it. We don't want to force people to use EE. And making now analisys about EE when we are not quite sure how basic UC is balanced is unnecessary complication. Without this I have enough work with balance
EDIT: Ooh, I like that take on Latifundia, pineappledan.
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1. There will be horseman replacement (Persia, Assyria?),
2. Conquistador has all promos lost, like elephant
3. TBW has +15 vs wounded (not 25). Yeah it look bland. We definitely need to add something. And I made it more expensive. For what?
4. Panzer... Ididn't know it is so weak. Only +1 move and armor plating for modern unit? Compare it to Hakkapeliitta f.e.
5. Many knights I can see.
I can't see commentaries. How to enable them?
2. Conquistador has all promos lost, like elephant
3. TBW has +15 vs wounded (not 25). Yeah it look bland. We definitely need to add something. And I made it more expensive. For what?
4. Panzer... Ididn't know it is so weak. Only +1 move and armor plating for modern unit? Compare it to Hakkapeliitta f.e.
5. Many knights I can see.
I can't see commentaries. How to enable them?
pineappledan
Deity
Added @Hinin's Cavalry spreadsheet to the google spreadsheet. please leave commentary on the relevant cells
@Blue Ghost is making Assyria's chariot a horseman replacement. I have some ideas for him below:
IRON CHARIOT - Assyrian Horseman replacement
Gotta give at least a small buff vs. cities. It is Assyria after all. @Blue Ghost, do you think that removing the horse requirement would properly mitigate the rough terrain penalty?
@FoxOfWar, I'm glad you like the Latifundium, but I don't deserve credit for it. That's basically lifted wholesale from what Uighur did in his mod.
@adan_eslavo for the TBW, I like the idea of it being the best knight, so I think keeping the increased cost is a good thing. You haven't played on the "Tug Banner" part of the unit, what if it gave a 5-10% bonus to all units in a 2 tile radius that stacked with GG, and was lost on upgrade?
You will have to log into your google profile and ask for permission to edit the document.
Should be a yellow triangle on top of any cell with commentary. the bottom of the sheets has a tally of how many comments have been made on each sheet. To view comments, just roll over the cell with your cursor
EDIT: I have fixed the spreadsheet, hopefully everyone can now edit the spreadsheet freely
@Blue Ghost is making Assyria's chariot a horseman replacement. I have some ideas for him below:
IRON CHARIOT - Assyrian Horseman replacement
Spoiler :
CS (up from 15, same as elephant)
MovesGotta give at least a small buff vs. cities. It is Assyria after all. @Blue Ghost, do you think that removing the horse requirement would properly mitigate the rough terrain penalty?
@FoxOfWar, I'm glad you like the Latifundium, but I don't deserve credit for it. That's basically lifted wholesale from what Uighur did in his mod.
@adan_eslavo for the TBW, I like the idea of it being the best knight, so I think keeping the increased cost is a good thing. You haven't played on the "Tug Banner" part of the unit, what if it gave a 5-10% bonus to all units in a 2 tile radius that stacked with GG, and was lost on upgrade?
You will have to log into your google profile and ask for permission to edit the document.
Should be a yellow triangle on top of any cell with commentary. the bottom of the sheets has a tally of how many comments have been made on each sheet. To view comments, just roll over the cell with your cursor
EDIT: I have fixed the spreadsheet, hopefully everyone can now edit the spreadsheet freely
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