5CC Regent Training Game

[Hawk Chieftain]

I irrigated the wheat & grassland to get the population moving. I know that in Despotism, there is a food penalty, and that most people mine the grass.
Jokeslayer, could you evaluate Tasslehoff's & my turnsets?

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

im up right??

 

[Tasslehoff]

Tad, everybody is up right now. We're each playing the first 10 turns. The save you need to play from is on post #30.

 

[choxorn]

All 5 of us have to play 10 turns from the 4000 BC Save.

@Hawk Cheiftain: Generally, people would prefer to play without Accelerated Prodcution, but we can use it for this game if the team doesn't mind it (I don't really mind that much, and you don't really mind that much, but what about Tasslehoff, Tad Empire, and Jokeslayer?)

Anyway, here's my 10:

Turn 0 (4000 BC):
Found Istanbul, set to build Warrior
Worker moves West to Wheat
Begin researching Pottery @ Max, due in 8

Turn 1 (3950 BC):
Worker begins roading wheat

Turn 2 (3900 BC):


IBT:
Istanbul: Warrior->Warrior (Can we please turn "Ask for build orders after unit construction" On?)
Worker Finishes Road

Turn 3 (3850 BC):
Worker starts Irrigation
Warrior moves along road to the tile 2NW of Istanbul, sees goody hut.

Turn 4 (3800 BC):
Warrior pops hut, gets 2 Barbs.

IBT:
One barb moves NE, the other Fortifies.
Worker Finishes Irrigation

Turn 5 (3750 BC):
Send Worker to BG
Warrior kills Fortified Barb warrior flawlessly (Without losing any hitpoints), and promotes to veteran. Other Barb is now 1N of him.

IBT:
The Barb Warrior fortifies.
Istanbul: Warrior->Spear

Turn 6 (3700 BC):
Worker starts Mining BG
Warrior kills Barb Flawlessly again, but no promotion
Sci down to 70, Pottery still in 2.

Turn 7 (3650 BC):
Sci down to 40, Pottery still in 1.

IBT:
I get Pottery, set research to Alphabet at 80% Due in 20.

Turn 8 (3600 BC):
Set Lux to 20% To stop Istanbul from rioting.

IBT:
Istanbul: Spear->Settler
Worker Finishes Mine

Turn 9 (3550 BC):
Worker Starts Road

IBT:
Istanbul gets a culture expansion.

Turn 10 (3500 BC):
zzz

EDIT: Weird, it attached without me doing anything.

And here's a screenie of what the game looks like right now, Spoilered for those who haven't played yet:

Spoiler :

 

[Jokeslayer]

Accelerated production is fine with me if it's fine with the rest of you. It won't make too much of a difference (as far as I can tell). The major thing seems to be that although you end up with twice as much of everything, everything still moves at the same speed.

On the turns:

Tasslehoff: Alphabet seems an odd choice for a first research. I'd rather build on our starting techs and then trade for other base techs later, or go for something cheap or useful (ceremonial burial is cheap and gives temples, pottery is cheap and gives granaries)

at 3650, we have 3 warriors and you start a spearman? Seems like too much military to me. I'm not entirely sure what size the city is or what other build options we have right now, but I would prefer another worker or a settler to more military. If we want to go 20K, we need to start culture asap, and that also means getting out a second city to build our workers and settlers.

I also prefer irrigating the wheat to mining it. We'll grow a lot faster and therefore be able to exploit other squares for production.

Hawk Chieftain:

Can you explain why you moved? It may be a good thing, it may be a wasted turn, but it depends on your reasoning.

Your worker actions look fine. IW is a good choice for research, although in my experience the AI goes for it quite a lot. However, it can be expensive to get and we will want to get iron in our borders. It's a vital resource (swords, cannons, rails. Nuff said)

Granary, good call.


Choxorn:

I think researching alphabet might be a mistake, unless you're going for something.

I also think spears are a mistake. Firstly, the AI won't be taking us on at this point, and if they think about it, a warrior garrison will deter them. Warriors are cheaper, too, and more than a match for any marauding barbarians that show up. Generally, don't build defense until later, and only where you have a barracks.



If any of you want to take this in a 20K direction, we need CB and a temple, and we want them now (no, it's not essential, depending on how well you think we'll do with the wonders)

I'll post my moves tomorrow, once I get back home.

 

[choxorn]

I chose Alphabet because it's good for trading- the AI tends to avoid it. And the spear is for Settler Escort. Plus, With AP on, Warriors cost 5 shields and Spears cost 10. While working a BG, Warrior was 3 Turns and Spear Was 5 at 2 spt. Later on, we'll have enough spt to get All AA Units in 1 turn, but for now, I just chose spear. Sure, warriors will keep barbs off our back, but spears are better escorts and don't take that much more time.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Makes sense, but I really don't like irrigating the wheat, it seems to me to slow production a lot. Istanbul looks set up already to grow fairly quickly, and I think production is really important. And, with the despotism penalty, irrigating the grasslands doesn't give much food.

I understand the problem about switching to spearman. Fortunately, it's easy to switch it to something else.

Anyway, I was planning on doing a lot of trading in the early game, which is why I was doing a slow research rather than fast.

Lastly, even though I thought at first the move was bad, it seems (to me) to be a good idea, if only in retrospect. By moving, we get the fish when border expands, as well as contact with the ocean, without giving up fresh water or BGs.

Either way, I think Jokeslayer's turnset will probably be the best.

EDIT: Hold on, does 4000BC count as turn zero? If it does, I need to play another turn.

 

[choxorn]

Hawk also needs to play another turn. Yes, 4000 BC is Turn 0. Just hit F8 on 4000 BC in C3C, it says "Turn 0".

Oh, and Hawk's move gives up 3 Fresh water tiles, a Hill, and a Forest, and gains 5 Salt water tiles, one of which has a fish, and gets ocean access.

Hawk's start appears to be the best right now, although I have the only Veteran unit.

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

ill post my start later today... sry for the Delay

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

My TurnSet...

Spoiler :

Turn 1- Settle Instanbul on origional Spot, move worker to irragate wheat.

IBT-

Turn 2- Worker Starts to irragate the Wheat

IBT-

Turn 3-

IBT-

Turn 4- Complete Warrior in Instanbul Send it to explore South. Also the Worker Starts to Road the Wheat.

IBT-

Turn 5- Move Warrior SW...

IBT-

Turn 6- Cap -> Warrior -> Warrior, Move New Warrior North

IBT-

Turn 7- The Nubian Tribe Teaches Us The Alphabet raise lux slider to 20%

IBT-

Turn 8- Nothing Much. We see wines Near. up north with a cow

IBT-

Turn 9- Piss off A barb Tribe... Nothing much.. we do see a plain cow/ Forest Game combo including lots of hills... hopefully we get Iron.

IBT- Barb Warrior Loses to our Warrior... No promotion... The other 2 Retreat toward our cap.

Turn 10- Move on mountian & see red Borders (Babylon) Check F11
We get pott in 2 turns.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96353/Hawk_01_TDG_3500_BC.SAV <--Save

we have 4 warriors + 1 Worker & 1 settler in 2 turns... Also we can make 1 turn warriors if we are going for Conquest... It Depends on What VC we are going for... My start was more of a Conquest Start...

 

[Tasslehoff]

I agree with Choxorn, Hawk's is the best, but I still think the BG at least should be mined. I'll go with the majority judgement on irrigating wheat, however.

 

[Jokeslayer]

Here's my turnset. These moves are designed for a 20K win. However, with AP on, we don't get boosted culture, which changes the dynamics of the game, so we might want to aim for Space Race. The moves still work, though.

4000BC: Settler SW, worker to Wheat. This gets me the sea, which in turn gives me the colossus.

3950BC: Istanbul begins settler, working the wheat tile. Worker begins road. Research ceremonial burial at maximum (8 turns)

3850BC: complete road, move to bonus grassland

3800BC: Begin mining

3750BC: Istanbul grows, works bonus grassland

3650BC: Worker completes mine, begins road. Istanbul now grows in two and completes the settler in two. This is what we want. Sci to 30% to finish CB in 1 turn at +3

3600BC: Complete CB. Begin mysticism at 90% (12 turns, but that won't last)

3550BC: Istanbul builds a settler, begins a temple. Settler moves 2 east using the road, exposing some wines nearby. Worker moves 1 square NE to start developing a second BG before istanbul grows again

3500BC: Worker begins a road, settler moves one square NE

Here's a screenie of the end of my turnset. The arrows show where the second city is going. Once I get that down it will start building warriors, then a worker. Istanbul will probably not build any more settlers unless we hit a big patch of downtime in production (still aiming at 20K).

Tad Empire: I think you're building too many warriors here. We only really need two for exploration and I don't think we need any for defence right now. Also, they won't help too much if we are going for conquest. I think more cities faster is more useful in the long run.

My save: View attachment 158962

 

[choxorn]

We don't have to be in a big rush to build cities- we're only allowed to have 5, remember? There are some spots we will want, and we don't have to rush to get them. We should build military too.

Unless I can be persuaded otherwise, my vote for the best start goes to Tad Empire's.

 

[Tasslehoff]

I personally think we should switch for a Space Victory (just my opinion).

Overall, I think Jokeslayer's is best due to the city move. However, we really do need to get a few warriors out. If we get the warriors out now, we'll have a chance at some good hut popping, and we need to get some early contacts.

If we decide to switch to space race, I don't think the temple build will be useful.

 

[choxorn]

Agreed, Space Race or Conquest. Are the tech prices also halved?

 

[Jokeslayer]

Choxorn: yes.

I agree that for a Space game my start is not the best. The temple is a waste and we don't need to fire out a settler quite that early. One of the things with a 20K victory is that you have to start early and really go for it. We can relax a bit more with space, as the hard work is later on.

Tad's and Hawk's would both be fine, I think.

 

[Tasslehoff]

I still really like the city move to the ocean, but overall, I like Tad's better than Hawk's. What does everybody else think?

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

it all depends what VC we are going for... we should figure that out before we go forward

 

[choxorn]

Well, since we're doing Accelerated Production, everything, including the tech race, is twice as fast, meaning we'll be in Modern Times by the 1300's. Culture, however, still increases at the same rate, meaning that it will take just as long to get to Culture Victory as it would in a normal game. Conquest will also be longer, since everyone has more units, and we have to have 5 cities at the Interturn, meaning there will be more open space for AI's to settle in, and we may be lacking some resources. Space Race, However, will be a lot faster, and probably easier. So, here's my preference of Victory Conditions:

1. Space Race
2. Conquest
3. 20k

Diplo, Domination, and 100k are too hard for me to want to try, although they are possible. n's Religious SG (see link in Sig) was a Diplo Win, so it's possible, and people have done 100k, so it's possible. Domination, on the other hand- I'm not sure if that's possible.

So, my vote goes to Space Race or Conquest, although If other people want to do 20k, I'll be okay with that, but it seems that most would agree with me that Space Race or Conquest will be easier.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Domination would be impossible. You'd get at least one 20k VC before it happened, as you would have to spam culture.

I think we should go Space.