5CC Space Race interest thread

[del62]

1000BC

Right summary, we are at war with Ottomans (they demanded Literature) and Hittites, we are at peace with everybody else

We have all ancient age techs except Republic and Construction, we have a monopoly on Monarchy and I think only the Incans no Literature

We have built the Collossus and the statue of Zeus, and have Libraries in all cities except zeus city, in the light of this spices will be hooked up in 3 turns

We have a market place in Moscow

Rostov is building a Library, Novograd is building market place as a pre build for aqueduct.

I have not switched governments yet to monarchy, but we can do on next turnset if people want, i would at least wait till spices is within cultural expansion

Construction due in 6 turns

Units

9 workers + 2 slaves
9 warriors
1 scout
1 curragh
1 Spearman
2 Archers

Giving a support cost of 3

Spoiler :

1220 Kill barb with archer

IBT Rostov grows so SOZ in 8 turns

1225 Nada

Ibt worker from moscow, switch to Marketplace

1200

Meet hittites - well down on techs

1175

Get small amount of gold 48 from vikings for code of laws

IBT Get currency (going for construction 15 turns)

1150 bc Not much

1125 IBT Hittites in ma with incans to destroy us and Colossus built,

Make peace with Incans with currency given in exchange for map making, polytheism and 58 gold in return

ibt

Yaroslav comletes library, Ottomens demand Literature and they declare war

1100 Not much move scout near ottomans into portugese terrority

1075 Not much

ibt not much

1050

discover monarchy from hut, right next to ottoman city, not sure scout will survive but worth the risk

i decide not to switch governments yet, will leave decision till end of turnset

IBT Zeus complete set to library, scout manages not to get attacked by ottomans

1025

not much, scout scurries into portugese area

ibt library built in yeri.... so all city have luxuries and we will have 3 luxuries in 4 turns

market place completed in moscow switched to worker

library built in novograd

1000 end of set

vikings down lit, map making, polytheism and currency

incans down monarchy

babylon down 5 techs whoever is up next may want to sell them a tech for there remaining gold

hittites and ottomans wont talk, i suggest peace with hittites asap

joan down 5 visable techs

henry down currency, lit and monarchy, suggest selling him currency for 83 gold before his gold goes down

For the next turnset Novograd is building market place as pre build for aqueduct,
two workers being built, Yerislav can build what it wants currently set to Marketplace but this can be changed

We need to make peace with Ottomans as soon as possible

We need to decide if we want to temporarily switch to Monarchy (if we do we should at least wait for spices prior to Anarchy)

I suggest we sell currency to Henry for his 83 gold but will leave this up to next player, and Babylon anything but Literature or Monarchy for his 40 odd Gold.

 

[del62]

Oh and the military adviser says jute tribes near novograd

 

[DWetzel]

I'm up, right?

Interesting choice whether to swap to Monarchy or not. We're at a good time to do it with our wonders taken care of. Not sure if it's worth the loss in revolt time though. I'll wait for heavy input on that before playing.

Other than that I can handle the age trades no problem. We should be able to peace Ottomans before the age change.

 

[sk8boardbob2]

By age trade we mean trade our science freebie for another tribe's science freebie? I thought the idea was to trade for all the first levels and get theology, invention etc for free. Trading a first level for a first level does make some sense. The AI would get that tech quicker than we would get ours by research and gifting makes sure there isn't a runaway AI.

As far as government goes, I don't think it's worth it to make a temporary change to Monarchy since we aren't religious.

 

[del62]

The key is the Babylonians dont have Polytheism so this will give us a high value on monarchy, added to Literature if we gift them up first we may be able to get their tech before we get our free tech, if not we gift up the ottomans and see what deals are available, hopefully we can get two middle age techs before we move up

 

[del62]

Dwetzel

yes you are up

 

[TheOverseer714]

We need peace with the ottos so we can do better on the end of age transition. I would not trade anything right now, the more trade bait, the better. I would not revolt yet, I'd rather go straight to Republic and stay there.

 

[Spoonwood]

A Monarchy revolution would hardly add anything to your cities I'd think (in *this* game), unless you have some grasslands irrigated.

 

[del62]

I think we ahould complete construction, do the age change and then research republic,

if we have a goody hut to pop at age change, then select another tech other than republic prior to popping hut, is we havent put any beakers into republic, swap back if we dont get tech,

if someone else has republic trade for it

 

[del62]

One thing I did wonder about is whether our spice city should be moved east at some point so it can include, Iron in its cultural borders, perhaps once we become a republic?

 

[Spoonwood]

I think if you switch techs and then pop a hut, you lose all beakers you invested on the first tech.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Moving the spice city any farther away will render it too corrupt to be of any real use. We'll just have to block the south iron off so that no one can settle there. Once everything is developed, we can use slaves to blockade critical colonies.

 

[Spoonwood]

We'll just have to block the south iron off so that no one can settle there.

Or trade for someone else's extra iron.

 

[DWetzel]

Or trade for someone else's extra iron.

Also effective, probably more profitable, but not nearly as much fun.


I'll be playing fairly shortly; I'll keep us in Despotism until we can get Republic.

 

[DWetzel]

Well, I've played. Probably not my finest effort. I give me a C-.

Quick highlights:

1. Our free tech = Theology, so at least we have that going for us.
2. We are at war with the Inca, allied against them with Ottomans and Babylon (so no peace for a while!). This may have been completely unnecessary and worthless, and if so, sorry.
3. Barbarians suck. A lot. And they will continue to suck, though I have a plan for that.
4. I probably suck too.

Spoiler :

Pre-play whining--I'm not happy with where we put Yekaterineburg at all. It should have been placed 1N of where it is in my opinion--it would have been closer to the spices, which we'd already have roaded up probably; it would have another BG on culture expansion (the one just past the spices that we'll never use), and it was a more strategic point for defending any incursions. It also overlaps a square with Yaroslavl, which is kind of a no-no in these sort of games unless it's really necessary. Nothing to be done about it now, but something to keep in mind for future games.

Turn 0 (1000 BC): Switch Yaroslavl from worker to a harbor. We need a harbor somewhere, and this seems like a logical enough spot. We have a few forests to start a-choppin' to get this into gear. It isn't going to complete in my turnset anyway. Taking the worker off will save us a few turns on infrastructure there though.

Debate switching Moscow off a worker, but decide we'll take a couple more and then start infrastructure. I'd really like another useful wonder there.

Sell Babylon Math for their 39 gold. We'll be gifting them up anyway, and everyone else has Math, so this shouldn't hurt. Maybe they pop Construction miraculously and save us a couple of turns.

Press Enter.

Turn 1 (975 BC): Moscow worker - worker (nominally due in 2, really should come next turn). Rostov grows and expands, picking up the fish.

Turn 2 (950 BC): Moscow worker - Hanging Gardens. We can switch it if needed.

Our northern curragh spots a barb galley and fortifies.

The Inca have Monarchy and are revolting.

Hittites willing to talk. OK, they don't have Math either. I decide to wait a turn or two.

IBT: Barb galley picks off our curragh cleanly, sinking it. Two barb horsemen approach Novogrod, they are 2 squares out. Hope we win.

Turn 3 (925 BC): Move Moscow spear toward Novogrod, which will do us no good if the barbs go 2-0.

IBT: Nothing. Yay.

Turn 4 (900 BC): Rostov library --> barracks; also an ancient cavalry. Switch from fish to plains to get to 10 spt, lose total of 1 food this way (irrigation in progress).

Hittites and Ottomans both willing to talk. So I do.

Give Ottomans Currency for peace and their 13 gold. Currency was the only non-optional tech we have that they don't.

I decide to leave the Hittites angry for now, are they giving us war happiness? I think so. Anyway, doesn't matter, they have 3 gold and are "doubtful" for peace, so whenever we feel like it we can pawn off a tech on them.

Turn 5 (875 BC): Last turn of Construction, we were only 4 beakers short (I probably should have watched this closer and MMed to save a turn, oops) so reduce to 10% (+31 gpt this turn at least).

Embassy Ottomans and Babylon for all but 9 of our gold. (Babs: Pyramids in 82, Ottomans: Mausoleum in 11). You'll see why shortly; suffice to say that Monarchy is not a monopoly for us... yet.

IBT: Discover Construction. Switch Novogrod and Yekaterineburg to Aqueduct.

Sell Inca Construction for their 126 gold. Then DOW Inca.
Ally Ottomans vs. Inca for Construction. They pick up Monotheism as their free tech.
Ally Babylon vs. Inca for Polytheism. Then gift Currency/Construction. They also pick up Monotheism.

Neither of them can trade for Monarchy from the Inca, which I believe makes that tech more vauable to them. If I am wrong, well, we can just make peace in a while. I should test this later probably.

Ottomans won't give up Monotheism for anything (they're researching Monarchy I believe), but Babylon will for Monarchy + 111 gold, so we do that.

After some bad luck on that front, we get some good news, picking up Theology as our free tech, so at least we have that going for us.

Set research to Education at 80%, due in 25 turns at -2 gpt, with 58 gold in the kitty.

We get two palace expansions, whee. Inca and Portugal are both working on Great Library; I missed which one just started it.

Oh goody, a stack of 8 Jute horses appear near Novogrod. A Phonecian conscript warrior appears on the mountain 3NE of Rostov. A Gepid conscript warrior appears 2N of our southern iron. I really f***ing hate barbarians.

Turn 6 (850 BC): Move a worker to safety.

IBT: HOLY *(&#$*(&#@$*(#@&*( CRAP.

Four conscript horses appear on the gold mountain to our south. Eight more move to the area just north of Yekaretineburg.

Turn 7 (825 BC): Trying to cover stuff.

Turn 8 (800 BC): Move archer from Rostov toward Moscow. Warrior covers worker, I like my odds there.

Use ACav to swat a unit at Novogrod (flawless win) then move it toward Moscow. The Jute horsemen are having trouble with the forests there.

I choose to evacuate Yekaterineburg, scurrying the workers to the relative safety of Yaroslavl and using the two warriors to cover the lonely spare worker I had chopping a forest.

Gift the Vikings 51 gold. You know, for safekeeping. I'll try to buy it back with a tech later.

IBT: Barbs rape, sack, pillage, crush, and destroy Yekaterineburg eight times, destroying the 25-ish shields we had toward the aqueduct. They also pillage a tile near Novogrod (boo).

Turn 9 (775 BC): I decide to attack the stack at Moscow. Win with both our ACav, including the freshly made one in Rostov, lose our archer.

IBT: Our blockade of two conscript warriors gets overrun by barbs, of course. Four Goth conscript horsemen on the way. We get our first eACav (3/6) as the healthy horse at Moscow attacks us and loses.

Turn 10: (750 BC): Rostov spear - market.

And save right away.

Thoughts for the coming set:

Spoiler :

As soon as we can get the Aqueduct built in Novogrod, evacuate the city and let the barbs run all over it. It's not worth the trouble. Before evacuating, gift any gold we have on hand to the Vikings, they can't spend it as they do not have Monarchy yet.

Should probably move ACav toward Yekaterineburg? Take on those barbs there and we should be okay. There is just one horse and one warrior south of Moscow, maybe use one ACav to clean that up and send other units east. They're probably going to pillage our spices soon.

Despite the turns I played, we only have 118 beakers (10%) toward Education (I'm counting on someone to get Republic for us, they have all had Philo/Code for a while now), because I was going to zero gold and running a surplus. So switching won't be all THAT painful if we want to go that way.

If you like barbarian bashing and hunting, this next set will be for you. At least we should get some nice eACav out of it, I guess.

 

[Spoonwood]

1. Our free tech = Theology, so at least we have that going for us.

THAT'S HUGE!

Sell Inca Construction for their 126 gold. Then DOW Inca.
Ally Ottomans vs. Inca for Construction. They pick up Monotheism as their free tech.
Ally Babylon vs. Inca for Polytheism. Then gift Currency/Construction. They also pick up Monotheism.

Neither of them can trade for Monarchy from the Inca, which I believe makes that tech more vauable to them. If I am wrong, well, we can just make peace in a while. I should test this later probably.

Interesting. I can see that could prevent them from learning Monarchy, but I don't think it did in your situation. At least not so much as I understood how you did things. You discovered Construction, and then imediately used "what's the Big picture?" and then traded Inca Construction, and then DoWed them, while still in the diplomacy or one of the F1-F6 screens right? If so, it's still your turn, so they can't trade techs with each other. And I don't think techs become more expensive according to the number of tribes you know who you're at peace with, but rather the number of tribe you know that have the tech. So, I don't think you made Monarch more expensive for Babylon, and the Ottos. At least that's my intuition of game mechanics, but I haven't tested it. I guess it's worth a test.

Then again, if you had them declare on the Incas when you had 2 turns left on Monarchy, they couldn't have obtained it from the Incas.

 

[DWetzel]

My thinking (and again, I could have been full of it) was that I thought the tech value depended on the number of tribes that you know that can trade you the tech. I was hoping that by having them DoW the Inca, they would effectively see Monarchy as a monopoly (since they can't "see" that the Inca have it, since they're at war).

I'm probably wrong about how it works, but it was worth a try, and we're in zero danger from the Inca anyway given the distance between us, the proximity of Ottomans + Babs to the Inca, and the gigantic hordes of barbarians that are certain to be in the way.

Have I ever mentioned that I despise barbarians? I'm trying to figure out how to deal effectively with those uprisings, and I never do that very well. Busting all the fog is the only reasonable way, but I don't think we could have done that very well with every military unit available to us.

 

[del62]

SInce we have two civs in MA against Incans, is it worth bringing Portugese in too,

Just a note, excess Gold could be spent on embassies,

Another question, is it really worth evacuating cities of units, they can either promote or get killed.

Once the intial wave of uprisings calms down things will get easier

 

[DWetzel]

SInce we have two civs in MA against Incans, is it worth bringing Portugese in too,

Just a note, excess Gold could be spent on embassies,

Another question, is it really worth evacuating cities of units, they can either promote or get killed.

Once the intial wave of uprisings calms down things will get easier

The reason to evacuate would be to get the barbs off the map--there's some chance they wander around and pillage tiles, plus they're a pain in the butt to our worker stacks that would like to work relatively unmolested.

If they run into Novogrod a bunch of times and take like 1 gold and don't have any buildings to stop production on, it's really no big loss.

And I agree, I don't mind if the units die, but I'd like to save them to hunt out the barb camps once the uprisers are gone.

 

[DWetzel]

Oh, and no, we don't want Portugal in, there's no real point in making it any bigger than it needs to be and getting tied in to anything else.