7.4x Balance Thread

I don't normally play on noble against the AI. Even though I despise the rediculous bonuses they get at higher levels. I just played that one on noble because I was also 'working' on a web site at the same time and I knew I didn't really have to play close attention to anything at that level. On monarch, for example, the AI has to get lucky to beat me to OO, RoK and FoL (AND, not OR). I typically pass on Order, Veil, Esus, and Empy because I don't need their pre-req and by the time I figure 'what the hell' and grab the way of the wise/wicked somebody already has them. If I get lucky with the huts & graveyards, I'll have every holy city, if for no reason other than the +1 gold/city and free mana from the shrine from that many religions being so stupidly OP :) (although that's a Civ4 religion issue, not FfH or WM specific, well except for the mana part)
 
"One archer and one warrior is far more powerful than three warriors, archers are vastly superior city defenders and can easily defend your borders well past the time when barbarian axeman show up if placed properly."

Tower Wizard,

Two other tactical strategies i use, are similar to the one mentioned above by Seven05. The first is basically cannon fodder by design. A stack of four warriors and maybe a couple of scouts. If the pesties are on open territory then attack using the warriors in a wave. With timing and luck and the right numbers, you can actually wear down the enemy stack, then kill it. The process will give you the opportunity to promote one or two warriors and maybe a scout or two as well. Then wait until you replenish the cannon fodder replacements, then go and repeat the process. It takes a lot of units, and its a pain, but with planning you can have some decently promoted units by the time you can upgrade them, then they are already buffed.

The variant to this is to camp your stack on a defensible tile next to the archer hut or the skeleton barrow, and at some point they get tired of you camping them and attack. If you have the right number of units, you can then counter attack and take the camp/barrow/fort.
 
This has not been my experience. Very frequently (even with poor results from goody huts) I can get all of the holy cities I want. Messing around last night I played to turn 200 (normal speed) on noble and I had all of the holy cities except Esus. I wan't even sacrificing my normal techs as I was invading my neighbor's and their warrior, archer and axeman defended cities with my iron weapon equipped boarding parties maelstrom mages and glorious tsunami spewing cultists.

I was not complaining about the religion availibility, only indicating in my experience that you could not dally too long in the same manner as you once could in FFH2. I dont know how many times I have missed founding a religion by just a couple of turns, simply because i had put one more tech in front of that priority. I dont mess around now, if I determine i need or want a religion (founded), I make a bee-line for it.
But I have seen some games where it wasnt as much a factor, and Im sure that had to do with what civs/leaders were in the AI alignment there. But more often then not, RoK and Octo go quick and FoL not far behind, in the games I have tested.
 
Erlking ( faerie hero) needs helluva serious nerf. He is überoverpowered.

and creating wild hunters from "capturing" workers is too much...

instead of creating trees everywhere during summer court - simply allow to change terrain to grassland - that is enough. Let tree growing mechancs remain to FoL sphere.
 
This has not been my experience. Very frequently (even with poor results from goody huts) I can get all of the holy cities I want. Messing around last night I played to turn 200 (normal speed) on noble and I had all of the holy cities except Esus. I wan't even sacrificing my normal techs as I was invading my neighbor's and their warrior, archer and axeman defended cities with my iron weapon equipped boarding parties maelstrom mages and glorious tsunami spewing cultists.

Not to belabor the point, but I do test on Noble, because traditionally this is suppose to be the most nuetral of settings, and until recently was the lowest setting of Wild Mana.

Just started my first test with WM v 7.54 as the Khazad and lost the race to RoK by 4 turns. My research list is as follows:

Exploration
Agriculture
Mining
Fishing (via goody hut)
Ancient Chants
Mysticism
Way of the Earthmother

which tells me whatever AI beat me to it, either started with exploration or ancient chants, and/or skipped exploration or agriculture.
 
I agree that the AI should be researching religious techs faster. it's not really a problem at high difficulty levels, but at lower levels it is. the issue is not so much with the early religions, as with the later ones. if you prioritize them, getting AV + order + empy + coe is really easy. and even on emperor, I've seen AIs fail to found religions they definitely should have founded. Lorelei waited a looong time before researching OO, same with the Sidar and Esus.

so to sum it up, they should put more emphasis on getting their religion(s) of choice ASAP, since if you have a religion of choice you REALLY want to be the one to found it ;)
 
There are usually more important things for the AI to do then to found a Religion. If you say the AI should care more about X you also have to say what it should care less about. Economy? Military? Keep in mind that the AI is designed for the default settings, not raging barbarians or wild mana guardians. Even though the AI has a good understanding of these features, they might cause an AI underperformance in some areas. Reminds me of the BTS AI that builds the Great Wall even if you play without barbarians :). It's just not possible to consider all Gameoptions equally.
 
I just want to be clear in this discussion. I was not promoting that the AI should be faster or slower on researching Religions. The discussion began with my helping Tower Wizard understand the subtle differences that make Wild Mana, Wild Mana. I made the comment that in Wild Mana if you want to found a religion, you better make it a priority based on my experience.

My post below is simply an illustration and example of that occuring. One outside tech cost me the wonder of RoK. That does not mean it will happen EVERY time, it just means it CAN happen.

And that is the gist of my point. Be aware that it can happen on any given game.
 
Pirates should be toned down a bit. Currently it's very difficult to defend against them compared to land Barbarians. With land barbs you can concentrate on defensible plots (like forested hills, and cities) and also funnel them into choke points. At sea however you've got to defend your entire coastline, and you've got a 1-1 chance most of the time of winning. Seeing as how you can often have to face 2 or 3 ships every 20 turns it's more cost effective to just abandon the sea altogether.

What if your boats could exert some kind of Zone of control, like a reverse blockade, so that you could at least have your stacks defend an area rather then a single tile, or you could make it so that Pirates can only move over sea and not ocean tiles.
 
There are usually more important things for the AI to do then to found a Religion. If you say the AI should care more about X you also have to say what it should care less about. Economy? Military?

I don't know are the religions really founded that late, but I'll point out that each FfH religion has some economic bonuses (shrine, some temples) and some military bonuses (Ritualists etc.), so it's not always a clear-cut choice between rushing to a religion and developing military/economy.
 
I don't know are the religions really founded that late, but I'll point out that each FfH religion has some economic bonuses (shrine, some temples) and some military bonuses (Ritualists etc.), so it's not always a clear-cut choice between rushing to a religion and developing military/economy.

Lone Wolf,

No they normally are not founded late, scroll down and see the various posts by myself, Tower Wizard and others, the discussion started with post #64 by Tower Wizard.
 
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