[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC Inca

[pineappledan]

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Inca civilization.

Spoiler Current kit :

The only change to the base kit is the change from 1 on mountain tiles to 1

Spoiler Full kit with 4UC changes :

Spoiler Description of new components and changes to existing kit, differences from base component are underlined: :

UM - Chasqui (replaces Scout):

available at Sailing​

90 Production Cost​

12 CS​

2 Movement​

"Chasquiwasi" (+1 movement and +5 HP on heal inside Friendly Territory. Double Movement in Mountains.)​

"Medic I"​

"Ignores Terrain"​

"Treasure Hunter I"​

UB - Qullqa (replaces Granary):

available at Pottery​

65 production cost​

1 maintenance​

+1 Food, +2 Production​

15% of is carried over after a new Citizen is born​

+1 to nearby Wheat, Rice, Maize, and Bananas​

Allows to be moved from this City along trade routes inside your civilization.​

+5 HP heal every turn for units stationed in this city, regardless of Action​

+3% gold from City Connections on Empire​

City is immune to starvation and stagnation (ie. city grows by at least +1 Food stores every turn, even if net food in the city is negative.)​

 

[pineappledan]

Justification for 4UC additions and changes:

Change to mountain yields on UA
Inca have:
1. a UA that gives on mountains
2. UI that gives and then more on top of that for being next to those mountains that also give
3. a UB that puts a high priority on tech/build order for an early building
Food Food Food. So much Food. Even without adding a single additional food on the new UB component, it is still a granary replacement. The change to makes mountains different from the adjacency they give to the UI, and removes some early yield bloat of a single type.
It also doesn't make much sense for a civilization whose society and culture was largely built to be resilient against frequent famine and food insecurity to have so much of the stuff.

UB - Qullqa
The Qullqa system preceded the Inca by a few centuries, but was central to Andean statecraft. It simply had to be depicted. The Qullqa gives that aforementioned resilience by making Inca immune to stagnation. You can use this bonus to work many specialists in a single city, but even if not deliberately trying to starve your cities to maximize your free food, you can still get a modest benefit from this building simply by training settlers. Even if food is locked, you still add 1stored per turn.

The additional heal on units doubles down on Inca's defensive power.
Lastly, the global city connection bonus was moved from Rome's old Colosseum to here. It is still barely anything, but serves to tie Inca in with the Andean Road and Machu Picchu reference

Chasqui UU
The Chasqui has higher base strength and starts with Medic, making it a decent frontline unit with the survivalism line. It can heal 25 HP per turn at level 4, and act as a tanky support unit for your main attack forces.

 

[N.Core]

One of the things I hate about Inca 4UC is that all of their unique components appear in the early game.

 

[azum4roll]

An early UB really shouldn't give that many abilities. Just compare with Stele, Marae, and soon Tophet with just one extra ability each (other than extra base yields). Ger has 3 abilities but it replaces a situational building.

I'd axe either the heal or the city connection bonus.

 

[hokath]

Could push Qullqa back to Aqueduct (did they have aqueducts?)
Chasqui in principle could be a (don't shoot me) early explorer?

 

[pineappledan]

Kind of hard to justify considering the Qullqa were structures for food and goods storage. In other words, they were granaries.

Also we don't have a unique granary in the game now.

I think we could remove the healing from the Qullqa and they would be no worse for wear if they seem too bloated right now.

 

[azum4roll]

Could push Qullqa back to Aqueduct (did they have aqueducts?)

That's too late. They really need the no starving at start until they get their UI.

Chasqui in principle could be a (don't shoot me) early explorer?

Imagine that being spammed out all the way until Flight.

 

[hokath]

Yes well the whole "UU obsoletes one upgrade later" rule is a bit wonky to my way of thinking. Perhaps better would be "usual obsolete + 2 tech tiers", this way "normal" UUs obsolete the same as now, but the unusual ones are normalized.

 

[Stalker0]

I think we could remove the healing from the Qullqa and they would be no worse for wear if they seem too bloated right now.

Removing the connection gold bonus seems much more vestigial. The heal bonus is very meaty to be honest. If you think the building is OP, then yes remove the heal. If its just trimming bloat, the gold connection bonus is a whatever bonus that I can easily drop and never care a lick about.

 

[pineappledan]

Overall grade: C-
I’m unsatisfied with how we were unable to move much of Inca’s unlocks back further into the tech tree despite how the empire only began in the 15th century. The current UU is bad. The current UB is of central historical importance but is hard to translate into gameplay in a satisfactory way. Overall the whole 4UC kit comes up short.

Chasqui
Theme - F. Chasqui were not warriors. They were a messenger system. They have the UU slot because they are recognizable and have the requisite art assets.
Mechanics - D. support scout with bonuses in owned territory is antithetical to an early recon unit. Unlike the Maori Warrior, they are not a Scout AND a self-sufficient warrior, they are a scout OR a support unit. The free medic and bonus movement in friendly unit feel bad to use.
Uniqueness - B. Support scout unit is an interesting idea, but executed in a mediocre way. The theme is weak and awkward.

Qullqa
Theme - B. Qullqa were central to the entire Andean imperial system, preceding the Inca by centuries. It’s a shame the central function of these storehouses is so thoroughly undermined by the terrace farm giving way more food to the Inca than a regular civ. It otherwise makes the key function of a nationalized system of rations and crop insurance a bit moot.
Mechanics - B. This is the better spot for the bonus for city connections. Rome built roads, sure, but the Inca built them like it was going out of style. The link to Machu Picchu world wonder is also nice. The starvation immunity is a very cool and thematic ability; it just is a shame the Inca aren’t a little more food insecure.
Uniqueness - A. The unique granary is strong and unique, and has the potential to open up different approaches to city management in the right terrain. The component’s design is somewhat hamstrung by the rest of the civ though.

 

[ma_kuh]

Diving into Inca history, trying to find a better 2n unique unit than the chasqui, which is really cool but as is mentioned in the report card, not really a warrior.

What stands out to me is less that the Inca had some sort of elite military component unique to their culture, and more that they had a flexibility in weaponry and tactics which stemmed from the way they incorporated conquered peoples into the military by way of mandatory military service. They also had a high level of discipline compared to their adversaries, and numerical superiority.

I see this manifesting in-game by tweaking the existing pattern for mercenary units: instead of getting full XP when purchased, you would get two units! They would have no upkeep costs (reflecting the qullqa and other systems in place for feeding large armies), possibly lower supply costs (one or both of them could be supply-free for instance), and they would be able to move after purchase (normal rules for that one). If we can make them cost Food instead of gold that might also further distinguish them.

One huge drawback to this is that the German Landsknecht is a tercio mercenary already. Unfortunately I think the timing for this unique unit would be best as a pikeman or tercio replacement. Or maybe it would be most unique as a Free Company replacement, available even without Authority.

I also couldn't find an especially good name. The mit'a public policy was broader ranging than just military service, and doesn't speak to a name for this unit. The term Awqaq runa refers to a soldier in the Inca army, so that might be good enough, although it's somewhat bland once translated. But hey, "the one with a sling" doesn't really inspire fear either and it's okay.



On the subject of the qullqa: is it possible to enable Food=>Production for units other than Settlers, based on the presence of the building? You would be able to leverage your excess food for producing caravans, workers, and army, and it makes the always-positive-growth trait front and center.

 

[ScarletArkyning]

Would it be possible for the city connections to provide food bonuses? IE if the city is connected to other cities it gets a percent of all potential food yields from internal trade routes? Or is that too complex?

 

[ma_kuh]

We have code for happiness for each copy of X resource owned by a city, so we could sort of turn cattle into a luxury resource.

… that’s as far as I got.

Cross-quoting you from a different thread, but what do you think about the qullqa turning Farm bonus resources into luxuries (or mini-luxuries, only 25% of the happiness)? I think it would be a good nod towards their super varied food sources, and their modern day impact on the global stage. And it would be a way for Food Focus to not simply translate into .

Problems with this approach I see: you might need to throw in Pastures to better guarantee value on the map. Could be a nod towards alpaca, but it's thin. Also, Farm resources don't spawn very well in tundra, which is where the Inca tend to get placed since good mountain ranges exist there. I don't know if you could just spawn Farm resources when an Incan city is planted, similar to Indonesia or Rome? Or go all the way and add Quinoa to the game, either as Inca-unique or just a new resource that means farms in tundra make sense.

 

[pineappledan]

Sounds too strong for such an early UB, and the qullqa is already overloaded.

 

[azum4roll]

You aren't going to see much farming resources at an Inca start.

 

[hokath]

MAGI:
DLL needed for the building effect
City is immune to starvation and stagnation (ie. city grows by at least +1 Food stores every turn, even if net food in the city is negative.)
And also for UnitPromotion
+1 moves in friendly territory

 

[azum4roll]

I assume it means +1 moves when starting the turn in friendly territory? Hopefully it's not the jank way of adding or removing 1 move hopping in and out.

 

[hokath]

Yes, I think that's how it works.
Checked and it is indeed on PlayerDoTurn

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.