A cure for HIV!!

[ComradeDavo]

FL2 i'm pro-abortion. Let me also say that NO, my concious does not scream inside my head. Infact it right now is preventing me from stating a ceartain scenario involving your *concious steps in to prevent me from typing that* (i ain't joking, i am being perfectly serious)
lets just say that it isn't very nice so i won't say it, although maybe youv'e got the idea.

 

[xeven_god_of_helsibahr]

FL2, you better feel lucky. I was cookin' up a good God damn retort, but my CPU froze before I posted it

.

Ok, back to the topic.

You still have not answered my question. Do you think it immoral to kill a cow? Just to feed your family? Hmm? What would you have us do with an aborted or dead fetus? Burry it? When it could save millions? Oh, now that is EVIL. In a couple years we'll be able to clone Stem-Cells anyway. I believe if the fetus is willingly aborted, or the result of a miscarrige, it should be used. Would you turn your back and just let millions die? That, my friend, is EVIL. Thousands of men, women, and children, yes, children, die needlessly EVER SINGLE YEAR. To deny them a chance at life is EVIL. I'm not the one who advocates evil here, it's you.

 

[starlifter]

posted July 14, 2001 04:26 AM
Stem cells, from fetusus... they are cells that haven't turned into a spicific cell, and could turn into any cell... I think. But one problem (I think) is they use unborn fetuses to gather these cells... they are basically aborting potential babies, and using that.

Yes, if you kill unborn babies, it is possible to try one avenue of research like this. I wonder how many pro-abortionists would be for this kind of reserach if it was discovered that stem cells (read: killing the donor) from pro-choice people could provide a research option (and even at that, no guarantee of a cure) for AIDS research.

Since the world know exactly what behavior causes AIDS (unlike many other diseases where rabid speculation substitues for real science and answers), the vast majority of AIDS cases can be simply prevented in the first place, esp. among adults.

One cure for AIDS was discovered quite a while ago: lead poisoning... the sudden injection of 87g of lead at about 1100 feet per second, in the temple region, will provide dramatic relief for the AIDS infection. The AIDS carrier will normally not spread the disease after such a cure. However, it must be noted that the cure is often viewed as more invasive than the disease.

 

[starlifter]

posted July 14, 2001 02:15 PM by xeven_god_of_helsibahr:

Well, he's trying to turn it in to an anti-abortion thread, and that's not what the thread is about. I kinda don't like it when the topic is steered toward abortion. Plus, he over uses the word EVIL.

I take it you are a supporter of slaughtering unborn babies, xeven_god_of_helsibahr? Naturally, you don't like it when you must face the truth about where the material for such "reasearch" is obtained.

When you are talking about killing unborn babies to conduct medical "research", you must face the fact that baby-killing (AKA Abortion) must be weighted in the balance.

If you think killing babies is wholesome, good, and serene, etc... that is your opinion. But 'evil' is a good word to ascribe to any individual or practice, in any society, in any era in human history, that condones or supports the slaughter of human babies (born or unborn).

 

[starlifter]

I believe if the fetus is willingly aborted, or the result of a miscarrige, it should be used. Would you turn your back and just let millions die?

1. Is it your "right" to dictate to another what the disposition of the dead is? Are you sayng you can take a dead baby and do with it as you will, regardless of the dead baby's family's wishes?

2. "if the fetus is willingly aborted.." Of course you think that, because you evidently support the kiling of babies. Killing of babies is not an act of kindness. It is an act of dispicable evil.

3. "the result of a miscarriage..." that is up to the family, not you and "doctors" engaged in using the blod of teh innocent to conduct medical "research".

4. "Would you turn your back and just let millions die?" This question was asked in many societies, most notably in Hitler's Germany in the 1930's and 1940's. Your use of the question in an illogical manners demeans the lives of all those who have been killed, and of all those that you seem ready to kill in the future.

5. There has been much medical debate thru the ages about whether or not to actually use "research" already obtained by torturing and killing people is ethical. The Nazis provided a great deal of medical data from the torture and killing of humans in "medical" reseach. And most ethical medical practitioners answer "No".

 

[starlifter]

As a final thought, for those that would like to wade into a new pile of freshly slaughtered human babies to conduct "research"... you are probably not aware that in America, it is not medically sanctioned to kill humans to provide biological material for research, no matter how noble the research may be.

However, if the individual donates their remains to the cause of medical science, that is OK. In the case of dead babies who die of natural causes and not at the bloody hands of baby-killing "doctors", the family can grant the donation of the baby for medical science.

Adult humans (and babies) who are not killed or tortured for the "harvest" of bio-matter may, with the right permissions, be used in ethical medical research.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

I'm glad we agree on this one Starlifter.

As a side note, I guess I am one of those rarities, anti-abortion, and anti-DP.

 

[Kev]

I am sorry to see that this thread has become so inflammatory. I guess it almost becomes inevitable when the topic of abortion comes up. It is certainly not an easy one to sift through, but I would dare to guess that nobody is actually "Pro-Abortion". To say this means to me that one would actually wish there to be more and more abortions - that everyone should have one because of the fun involved or something. I don't wish to sound overly irreverant on the subject, but that's kind of how it sounds to me. I think that people who take a stand either way are either anti-abortion or pro-CHOICE. With pro-choice, the prevailing thought is that one wishes to respect the opinions and choices made by other individuals and not let their own opinions choices interfere.

I guess at the crux of the abortion issue is often "what constitutes life". Some feel that even a single cell constitues the potential child (or to some, a child) while others don't feel that way. Whatever your thoughts, I, for one, will respect them and I won't try to dissuade you in any way. In fact, I think it would be futile to do so. I only would ask that you respect my beliefs as well as others'.

Fearless and Starlifter - I know that you both think abortion morally reprehenible and an aberration of the worst kind. I hope that you both will always express yourselves so fervently and I will respect your opinions and try to see the argument from your side. Where my opinion lies is actually almost irrelevant as I am only asking you to respect my opinions in general.

Not sure how clear I was there. In any case, given the topic I have to say it's one that I am interested in seeing where everything leads. In my own thoughts, I see that abortions take place every day in the United States. While I would think most (if not all) would see this as distressing news, the fact of the matter is that it DOES take place. With permission from the patient, doctors and researchers can turn this into something that is potentially lifesaving. Why would you NOT want this to be the case. By the way, I don't think anyone would advocate just taking the cells without permission.

There is a lot of energy on each side of this issue, and I sincerely hope that science discovers a way to duplicate/clone these cells in order to provide a less invasive procedure for research. Until they do, I will advocate using the cells from patients who give thier permission.

There is a lot of energy on the abortion issue as well. It was interesting that in Buffalo (I think that's where it was) both the pro-choice activists and the anti-abortion activists actually began to work TOGETHER and try to work at the true root of the problem - unwanted pregnancies. When they stopped fighting each other and used their money and time together they found that they were able to reduce the number of abortions dramatically through education and awareness. I hope this catches on....

------------------
Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock