A foreigner's view of FOX News

[Sultan Bhargash]

Anti-Semetic NPR? Not likely. I should warn American conservatives right now not to be lulled into a false sense of having the Jewish people of America on your side. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't work on people smart enough to see in three dimensions.

 

[meldor]

Yet another thread to slam Fox News. Don't you get tired of it?

Let's take this a little at the time

Originally posted by napoleon526
...As a British citizen who works as a teacher in Turkey, is married into a Turkish family, knows their mentality, and writes about them, I know how they feel about the West. Clearly, it is a love/hate relationship. Turks know that the West stands for many noble ideas such as democracy and human rights, things that are needed in order to progress Turkish society. Yet, at the same time, they hate it, especially American power and the ability of America to bully countries in the name of American interests.

In what way did we bully Turkey? I would put it the other way around. Turkey offered their support but only if we paid them. We refused to cough up all the cash they wanted to get "bullied" by us, and we found another solution. The, when it was obvious that we really didn't need Turkey to get the job done, they offered limited support at a discount price. Yep, lots of bullying going on there. The biggest thing we did to bully them was to tell them that our money offer had a deadline and they better vote fast.

Originally posted by napoleon526
It is incredible how a country as powerful and as large as America could fail to transform that advantage into a situation where Americans are truly in touch with the rest of the world. Instead, they have made themselves the most detested people on earth and have developed a we-don’t-care-because-we-can-bomb-the-****-out-of-you-if-we-feel-like-it childish way of thinking.

Ah yes, we quickly get to the usual liberal appeasement cry. We as a strong country should get in touch with the feelings of others. All the while their religous leaders preach that we are the great Satan and we should be destroyed. I think we get in touch with those feeling on 9-11. If we are indeed the most detested people on earth, it isn't because we have failed to provide money, food, clothing or medicine to all of them. It is because we give this even though they stand to the side and curse us. We are magnanimus to those who have less, and yet still hate us. My question would be, which came first, their hatred of us or our support of Isreal? We have been the most powerful nation on the earth for some time. We have had agressive foriegn policies for some time. The biggest thing is that we are the largest supporter of Isreal. For that they hate us.

Originally posted by napoleon526
Turkey is a country that, thanks to satellite, is able to get FOX News and CNN. There is a Turkish version of CNN called CNN Turk, which provides news in Turkish but is allied to Ted Turner. As a result, most Turks do not watch American CNN. So when the English-speaking section of Turkey wants to improve its English by watching some American TV, they turn to FOX News, and what they find shocks and appalls them.

If they don't like Fox so much, why do they watch it? They could just as well watch PMSNBC, CNN, or the BBC and still learn English. If they keep watching it, then it most hold something for them. Or is this just a case of projection? I hear a lot of liberals who outright condemn Fox, but when push comes to shove admit that they really haven't watched that much of it and go by what other liberals spout about it.

Originally posted by napoleon526
Firstly, they encounter an American flag fluttering in the left-hand corner of the screen. This is not so strange; lots of Turkish channels also put the Turkish flag on the screen, especially on national holidays -- after all, Turkey is one of the most nationalistic countries in the world. But in the case of the American flag, it smacks of vulgarity. The fact that it is fluttering suggests the breeze of freedom (the American idea of freedom) is wafting over the Land of the Brave and that the purpose of this channel is to show the rest of the world that only in the U.S.A. can fluttering flags be blown by the breeze of freedom. Then the real trouble starts.

Let's see, an American News station displaying the American flag, go figure. And it flutters, what an outrage! Any other flag is ok, but the American flag is vulgar. Says a lot about this author.
Then we get the whole breeze of freedom thing. are they really insulted by the "breeze of freedom" or scared of it. Yes, they are the most "enlightened" secular government in all of Islam, but it doesn't take much to mount that stage. Momar runs one of the most progressive countries to, but there isn't much of the "breeze of liberty" happening in either place. You can still be killed in Turkey if you turn the wrong way, look at the wrong women, etc. They have spent the last 20 years or so suppressing the Kurd (although they haven't quite gotten it to Saddam's level yet). Yep, a bastion of liberty. They could use a few breezes.

Originally posted by napoleon526
Every other word out of the mouths of opinionated hacks like Bill O’Reilly (the man you can count on to make an issue where there wasn’t one before) and the odious Sean Hannity ("I am a Christian, but get a job, you bum!") seems to begin with "American" or "Our president says it is right to kill in the name of freedom." Turks then also have to listen to half-educated so-called experts give their opinions on Islam ("a religion based on war and slavery," according to Pat Robertson) and world economics. FOX News also does George Bush’s dirty work for him. On the network, Russia is told to get back in the bread line after disagreeing with America about the war in Iraq. Although most of the world has a serious attitude about not insulting someone else’s poverty, FOX News sends the message to the world that this is, in fact, an American tradition and a way to deal with people you are having problems with.

Let's see, the folks on Fox are hacks, odious, "so-called" experts, half-educated, and insulting, and of course all of this just more Americana in action. But let's start at the top. I happen to like Bill, he is the one person on any of the stations that will ask the tough questions to anyone, from either side. I don't always like his few, but I enjoy his arguements. Then Sean Hannity, why not Alan? Oh yeah, Alan is the liberal and therefore doesn't have bad opinions. Anything wrong with the show must be Sean's fault. Also, it is bad for a Christian to want people to get jobs? It is wrong to wnat people to work for what they get? More fluff from the pocket of socialism. I can be a Christian, compassionate, and still want people to work for what they get. Even charity should allow the people the dignity of working for at least part of it, if they are able. Yes, give to those in need, but help them to get on their feet so they don't have to continue to ask for help. I know this is against the liberal socialist mantra, but so be it.
On to Pat Robertson. Let's face it. As a Christian, you can be tolerant of any other religion, but when push come to shove the others are wrong and therefore spring not from God but from the devil. It's the same thing that the muslims say about Christianity and Judaism. The big difference is that you don't have Christian preachers throughout the world extorting the people to kill and destroy the infidels. Big difference. Also, is not Mr. Robinson entitled to his belives? Is not Mr. Robertson not a political person, if memory serves me he got more votes in some states thatn Nader. I watch Fox news all of the time, every day. What little TV I watch is Fox News. I have seen Muslims spouting there side, Isrealis spouting their side, Pat Robertson spouting his, and even the Pope saying that the war was bad. But, I guess the ones who he liked didn't matter.

As for the people who seem to think we shouldn't talk about other poverty or we shouldn't use foriegn aide as an extension of our foriegn policy, I would ask, for how long has your country been tapping that American cash flow. For a country that just got through trying to export billions of dollars, its a pretty funny stance. Or maybe we should allow Russia to extort money and stab us in the back as well? The truth is, they think we should just give it to them and still let them go about making things harder for us.

Originally posted by napoleon526
Turks see bigoted opinions dashed off as truthful insights; they see the Third World made fun of and insulted; they see an empty and heartless ideology held up as American culture. An example would be the three donuts who present the morning show, FOX & Friends. I watched in horrified silence as they said Angola and Chile did not have the right to influence the U.N. opinion-making system as they were poor, backward countries. We are the big kid on the block, they seemed to be saying, so we should decide what the rest of the world should do; if you are not part of the capitalist elite, then you are invisible and we can do what we want with you. The picture of a paunchy John Wayne, grinning his WASP head off as he single-handedly shoots down hordes of Third World complainers with his six-shooter came into my head.

Again, we are bigoted, empty and heartless, and yet this gentlemen uses the phrase "paunchy John Wayne, grinning his WASP head off" Who is the bigot? Who is the one making the bigoted staements? Calling peole donuts? I watch F&F all the time and have never heard any of them us those type of words. But while we are on the subject, again we get the idea that just because we are the big dog, we should allow some other country to dictate our foriegn policy. We didn't let the French do it why should we let Chile, or Angola, or any other country on the face of the earth? While these countries should be allowed to have their say, American foreign policy should be determined by Americans We don't have to take world wide polls before we give them money, why should we do so when we do anything else. Oh, I forgot, we are a bunch of cowboys. This image seems to be popular amoung all the anti-Americans. At least they are watching good movies.

Originally posted by napoleon526
Also on the same program, the weatherman, who looks like a supermarket manager rather then a newscaster, welcomed Turkey to the FOX News fold by making a reference to the rather ugly bird that shares the same name as the country. It was taken for granted that the Turks’ national pride mattered little and that they would still watch this channel no matter what crass jokes were made: Hey, we are Americans and everyone wants to be an American, right? In short, Turks see everything that is vulgar and immature about America, especially its willingness to show off its wealth and power in the crudest of fashions.

The weather man is one of the above mentioned donuts, I guess he gets special treatment and insult here. First, who said the turkey was ugly? Second, the turkey was almost the National bird, except that people thought we should hunt the national bird. I happened to watch this segment (when the people in Turkey were welcomed to the show), I din't find it crass. He did mention that he was talking about the country and not the bird, but it would be hard to find the insult in that, unless you are strongly anti-American to start with. Again we are vulgar, but we do get a new one, immature.

 

[meldor]

Originally posted by napoleon526
After 9/11, there was a range of emotions in Turkey, ranging from indifference to outrage. Who felt what depended on such things as education, outlook, political leanings, and a certain amount of individual compassion. Middle-class citizens of Turkey, who for the most part consider themselves to be secular and Western, felt on the whole sympathy. They, too, have to battle with Islamic fundamentalists in their country. (Women especially have to struggle to achieve the Western lifestyle they want in the face of a traditional Muslim Turkish culture that vetoes many things.) Most Turks are in a constant condition of doublethink. But they look to America -- American popular culture, that is -- as a symbol of a kind of freedom.

From indifference to outrage? How about from glee to outrage. If we are so bad why do the look to us as a symbol of freedom? Why not the French? The Germans? The Russians? I don't doubt that they have had problems. I feel for those who are oppressed, but on the whole they still don't know which way to go?

Originally posted by napoleon526
The story of the majority of Turks -- the poor, uneducated, superstitious, and Islamic -- is different. They did not condone the actions of the terrorists, but neither did they condemn it. They simply did not care because America and American values are elements that touch their lives in the same way as dreams do. They see Hollywood and pop stars and basketball players and wealth and big houses, but none of it speaks to them because they are the victims of globalization, forever trapped at the bottom of the pit, unable to move sideways because their country is an economic hostage of American multinationalism. For the rural, illiterate Turk, who is still controlled in his actions by Koranic concepts of salvation and damnation, the death of Americans has as much meaning as talking about characters in a film or a novel being killed.

My question is, if the majority of them are "porr, uneducated, superstitous, and Islamic", how do the argue about such consepts as being "victims of globalization, forever trapped at the bottom of the pit, unable to move sideways because their country is an economic hostage of American multinationalism". That doesn't sound like it came from some one uneducated or poor, but from a liberal socialist propagandist. Also, what the heck is "American multinationalism", I thought we were "unilateralists". Maybe I am not up on European socialist doublespeak. Also, those scenes of celebration throughout the muslim world kind of belie that statement. Yes , they celebrated in Turkey as well, just not as much.

Originally posted by napoleon526
This idea will not change until there is a more even balance of the world’s wealth. How can a peasant in a village in the east of Turkey who cannot find water to drink, who will die before he reaches old age, be asked to worry about American security when they support various regimes that kill and suppress his Muslim brothers? FOX News takes the opinion that the Third World has little to contribute to the world because not only is it economically poor but also spiritually backward. In other words, they do not have American ideals. This ignorance has lead to the demise of many dynasties in the past. Let them eat cake, you say, but then do not be surprised when they hate you and what you stand for and wish to see you burn.

Now they have gone from indifference to wanting us to burn, all in two paragraphs? But the idea behind this paragraph is that they are poor, not becase the haven't gotten off their collective butts and done something (besides suppress the Kurds and women), but because we won't dimantle our economy and give away our strength so we can be as miserable as they are. Steel pipe is cheap and easy to make, clay pipe is easier and cheaper to make. Wells havebeen dug for thousands of years before America was founded. So what does America have to do with them not having drinking water? Again, the idea is that we are to blame for there problems. What big resource do the sell to us? They haven't got enough oil? The don't have enough minerals for us to worry about? The only thing they had going for them was that we could use them to listen in on Russia's electronic traffic. We have been giving the government of Turkey millions of dollars every year for the last 50 years and where has it all gone? And this is our fault?

Originally posted by napoleon526
Turkey was a country that was made to look like a Middle Eastern merchant by FOX News when the network talked about "buying off" Turkey in order to let America use Turkish land to invade Iraq. They did not talk about the moral strength of Turkey, a Third World country resisting the bribe of American dollars. The portrait of a prostitute that was painted by the American media still burns in the Turkish soul, and this week the announcement was made by FOX News in smug fashion, that 69 percent of Americans did not care that Bush lied to them about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction.

What would you call it when someone says, oh, I see you need help but we will only do it if you pay us enough money? jI call it extortion. Resisting a bribe? Give me a break, the bill didn't pass because the Turkish military didn't get behind it. Why didn't the military get behind it? Not enough money, they were holding out for more, and they lost. Not exactly the noble picture that he wishes to paint of Turkey, eh?
Now to the last statement. First, it assumes that President Bush lied. Second it distorts the poll given. The poll showed that even if no WMDs were found that they still supported the intervention in Iraq for other reasons. It had nothing to do with who said what. Althought he same poll did show that the whole "he lied to us" campaign by the Dems isn't working. I can't even count the numbe of commissions and investigations that Hillary and company have wanted to start. Funny, she used to say such bad things about such "witch hunts" as she called them.

Originally posted by napoleon526
The whole purpose of the war was a lie, and 69 percent of Americans do not care. This says a lot about 69 percent of Americans. Turkey and the rest of the world was able to see a news channel being proud of the social irresponsibility of America, not to mention the moral one. (It was the Iraqi people who were bombed and killed and now have no water or electricity. FOX News takes the stance that they are not important.)

Let's see, now we haved moved on to irrespnsible and immoral! The Iraqi people weren't bombed, if they were, there would be a whole lot less of them today. The Iraqi army and the govenment was bombed. Big difference. Did you also miss the part where they have found out that a lot of those people didn't have food or water even before the war started? Of course that is our fault as well. We had 12 years of sanctions in place. It couldn't be the fault fo Saddam, who used the oil for food program to build more palaces and not feed and help his people. It couldn't be the fault of Saddam who oppressed and killed the Shiites and Kurds.

Originally posted by napoleon526
FOX News has made America look like a petty, uneducated country that cannot tell the difference between a left-wing, secular dictator and an Islamic fundamentalist, anti-socialist terrorist when they are both Arabs. They glibly dismiss the American-made sufferings of the Iraqi people by saying their country has liberated them and they should therefore be grateful. Meanwhile, Saddam has escaped and another war goes unfinished. But the media message of the right wing to the world is that your lives have no meaning when compared to American capitalist interests.

Yea, we got a new one, now we are petty! Uneducated he already used sorry. Saddam was left-winged? See, I told you it was our fault, not Saddams. Again the socialist attack on our "capital interests". It grows boring in its repetition.

Originally posted by napoleon526
As the world gets smaller thanks to mass media and the Internet, the world also gets smaller for America to maneuver in. At the moment, she is not acting like a grown-up, and that could be a turning point as more and more countries reject America with disgust. This could be the beginnings of a rejection of red-white-and-blue values. The mass media, an American invention, is threatening to become America’s undoing.

Now we are childish. The real problem with the media is not that it exposes the American arrogance, but that it exposes just how litte these countries governments have done to help their own people. Look at countries like South Korea, Japan, and others, that took the money and did something with it. Now they are part and parcel of the global market. Their standard of living equals ours, the amount fo income that families have equals our. Look at Malaysia. Look at them and tell me what the difference is? Was it us or was it governments that decided the best way to stay in power was to keep the people poor and ignorant. The problem is the mass media makes it so they aren't so ignorant anymore. Now the leaders have to blame it on us, else the truth might really get out.

Originally posted by napoleon526
What do you all think of this article? Do you agree/disagree/like pie?

Funny thing is that most of you read this and agreed with it. The vast majority of responses seen here don't even object to this persons blantant anti-Americanism. You just jump on the band wagon and love another chance to bash Fox. And yet you wonder why the majority of cable viewers could find it pleasing. Maybe because they haven't bought into the liberal socialist European way of thinking yet. Maybe, they still belive in the good old Red, White and Blue.

@Sultan, just the fact that you like NPR and think it is balanced tells me all I need to know. But I have listened to it and found it wanting. I would rather watch CNN, at least they don't claim intellectual superiority.

 

[meldor]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Anti-Semetic NPR? Not likely. I should warn American conservatives right now not to be lulled into a false sense of having the Jewish people of America on your side. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't work on people smart enough to see in three dimensions.

The Ameerican conservatives strongly support Isreal, yet most of the Jewish vote democratic. You think we don't know this? Do you think it matters? The support for Isreal is a moral issue not political, at least for conservatives. There is however, indications that Jewish groups are beginnning to wake up to the fact that there are strong anti-semetic elements in the Democratic party. They even have one of the biggest ones running for President right now. Kinda offsets Leiberman, doesn't it?

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Not really. I'm not even sure who you are talking about, unless it's Sharpton (a wild guess) in which case all bets are off.

And with Ari Fleischer (his name is Hebrew and Yiddish for "Lion Butcher") on his way out, who's the closest Jewish person to the Bush cabinet again?

And since Arabs are semites too, and more semitic by definition of the word than alot of Ashkenazic jewry, the word Anti-Semite can be accurately applied to anyone who locks up a thousand Arabs without letting them have access to legal counsel for years at a time, something else that rings scary to every minority with a history of having been oppressed in America, including the people of Spielberg and Steisand.

 

[meldor]

See, even you knew him! Bingo!

As for Ari, he wasn't a member of the cabinet. He was a member of the staff. The next closetest I could name would be Wolfowitz, and that only from the other anti-semetic posts that have been put up here. I have really gone through the cabinet looking for any given type. Sorry.

As for the term anti-semite, even the Arabs use it to mean someone who is against the Jews.

Lets see, locking up those that are violating emigration laws and then deporting them is discrimination? Trying to find all of the poeple associated with Al-Quada by focusing on those most likely to be a member is discrimination? Instead of making a sweep of the illegal emigrees of Arab and Middle Eastern backgrounds maybe we should have picked up all the females over 80 who are natural citizens? Would we have found the Buffalo 7? Would we have picked up the others? Of the 700 detained, guess what 500 of them have been rightfully deported. Go figure! Must have been bad news when one of clintons judges backed the detainments.

 

[cgannon64]

Al Gore is considering starting a liberal news channel, rumor has it.

Anyway, on topic, I've said my opinion of Fox News before. They have an overwhelming number of conservative commentators, and some of their anchors have been caught making biased comments as well. Patriotism sells right now.

 

[Benderino]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
And since Arabs are semites too, and more semitic by definition of the word than alot of Ashkenazic jewry, the word Anti-Semite can be accurately applied to anyone who locks up a thousand Arabs without letting them have access to legal counsel for years at a time, something else that rings scary to every minority with a history of having been oppressed in America, including the people of Spielberg and Steisand.

For the past 5 decades, Semite has nearly always been used to describe a Jewish individual. It may be true that at one time, many years ago, it could include Arabs, that is not the case now. It is true, and many in the Arab world use the term Semitic when referring to the Jews ONLY.

 

[Theige]

I have a question for non Americans:

Is FOX the biggest American News station you get in country?

Because here, in the U.S., it isnt even close.
(The big ones here are NBC, CBS, and CNN, and fourth, ABC is larger than FOX I believe.)

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by theage
I have a question for non Americans:

Is FOX the biggest American News station you get in country?

Because here, in the U.S., it isnt even close.
(The big ones here are NBC, CBS, and CNN, and fourth, ABC is larger than FOX I believe.)

Fox News is the biggest cable station here in America.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

What does that mean, the biggest?

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
What does that mean, the biggest?

I took it to mean the most popular.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Oh, well... of cable news networks it might be the biggest. I know there are bigger cable networks (such as MTV). And theage is right about the network tv stations' newses being more influential here.

None of which lets Faux off the hook for inciting terror and doom across the world and hastening the apocalypse...

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by meldor

Then Sean Hannity, why not Alan? Oh yeah, Alan is the liberal and therefore doesn't have bad opinions. Anything wrong with the show must be Sean's fault.

I've watched the programme. Sean does almost all the talking.

 

[Greadius]

And hyperbole, don't forget their hyperbole.

NBC, ABC, and CBS all have higher rated newscasts. CNN and MSNBC are more available, but Fox is the highest rate primetime cable news network... but not by much. MSNBC and CNN get more viewers, so its not even a majority on cable competition (not counting all the extra channels digital cable & satellite carry). The highest rated cable network is actually Lifetime

 

[onejayhawk]

Fox News is not the biggest, that would be CNN, just the most controversial. This is in keeping with the owners history. He has been a shock artist throughout his career. There is a feeling in certain quarters that Fox is the only network willing to present balanced coverage, which will offend everyone, but is welcomed by those that find controversy interesting. The theory continues that ABC, CBS, CNN and NBC news services are homogeneous and slanted to favor the liberal view.

The bulk of the posters on this site would disagree with that assessment. As a rule such posters disagree with the concept that the older news services lean substantially in any clear direction. Their opinion of FOX you may infer for yourself. My own opinion is that FOX is cruder and less polished, but not slanted in its approach.

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Anti-Semetic NPR? Not likely. I should warn American conservatives right now not to be lulled into a false sense of having the Jewish people of America on your side. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't work on people smart enough to see in three dimensions.

I know of no conservative the DO believe that Jewish people are on their side. Its a major sore point, since they consider themselves to be the supporters of Judism.

Originally posted by cgannon64
Al Gore is considering starting a liberal news channel, rumor has it.
Anyway, on topic, I've said my opinion of Fox News before. They have an overwhelming number of conservative commentators, and some of their anchors have been caught making biased comments as well. Patriotism sells right now.

They were discussing this on the drive time radio today. The concept of the liberals being able to come up with a decent cast of people inspired ridicule. Since one name central to the coversation was Al Franken, they may have a point, providing that is the true level of talent available.

J

 

[Greadius]

Wait, didn't you say earlier in your post all the OTHER networks were liberal, THEN you say the idea that they can come up with a decent cast should inspire ridicule and they have no talent available?

I'd love to do liberal media. I'm an excellent mouth piece. I could join the Republican party and they could call me token

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Hmm, well not being able to come up with "a decent cast" really didn't stop the conservatives. Maybe the liberals could just get, I don't know, ALL OF HOLLYWOOD BESIDES SCHWARTZENEGGER AND HESTON* to take turns passing thru their radio network.





*And those guys are just confused.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by Greadius
Wait, didn't you say earlier in your post all the OTHER networks were liberal, THEN you say the idea that they can come up with a decent cast should inspire ridicule and they have no talent available?

I'd love to do liberal media. I'm an excellent mouth piece. I could join the Republican party and they could call me token

Reread the post. I sited a belief. I did not endorse it. Further anyone that has Al Franken as an prime example of the talent pool is in deep smelly muck.

Originally posted by Sultan Bhargash
Hmm, well not being able to come up with "a decent cast" really didn't stop the conservatives. Maybe the liberals could just get, I don't know, ALL OF HOLLYWOOD BESIDES SCHWARTZENEGGER AND HESTON* to take turns passing thru their radio network. *And those guys are just confused.

Heston is too old and Arnold the Republican is too rich (what must it be like to be a Kennedy and have to deal with him on the list of family members).

As to the liberl side of Hollywood, they have tried that route before. Allthe candidates are still making movies and TV. It is nice of you to acknowledge the political slant running through the film industry.

J

PS Warren Beatty would be the place I would start if I wanted a true Hollywood liberal. At this point in his career, he might even welcome the idea. I would pay money to watch Beatty and Limbaugh debate.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

I enjoyed immensely Franken's book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot"... and I also liked the early decades of Saturday Night Live that he wrote...