A free will curveball

[Bozo Erectus]

We may or may not have free will, but what about God? Does God have free will? Or 'will' of any kind?

Seems like a really dumb question at first, but think about it this way: Who enjoys 'free will' more, you, or the President of the US?

 

[puglover]

There is nothing influencing God, as he exists outside of this universe we are in. Since he set the universe into motion, it doesn't have the same influence on humans who are born into it. He, therefore, has more free will than humans.

 

[Phlegmak]

God has no free will. Perfection implies lack of free will.

 

[Perfection]

Perfection implies lack of free will.

Imply it? I explicitly deny it!

 

[El_Machinae]

Depends what you mean by "God". I suspect that the creation event was not enacted by a sentient being; hence the Creator did not have free will.

The god that answers my prayers has just as much free will as I do.

 

[Phlegmak]

Imply it? I explicitly deny it!

Ug. Normally, I like pointless jokes. However, this constant joke about your username really tires me.

 

[warpus]

To answer this question you will first have to define God, and then study him.

Since the first is impossible, and the second even more so, this thread is pointless.

 

[puglover]

God has no free will. Perfection implies lack of free will.

How so?

To answer this question you will first have to define God, and then study him.

Since the first is impossible, and the second even more so, this thread is pointless.

How is it impossible to define God? Sounds like a cop-out to me.

 

[Che Guava]

God has no free will. He takes polls every night from nightly prayers and works off of those...

EDIT: COuldn't resist! Puglover, please define god. Remember that you have to use more than 10 characters...

 

[Phlegmak]

How so?

Perfection => Incapability of change.
Perfection => Incapability of making mistakes.
Incapability of making mistakes => Cannot choose to make mistakes.
Cannot choose to make mistakes => No free will.

Incapability of change == perfection because if a creature could change, then it wasn't perfect in the first place. Incapability of change is incredibly limiting. This basically renders god into something like a thinking statue.

The entire notion of perfection in an intelligent creature is a complete impossibility anyway.

How is it impossible to define God? Sounds like a cop-out to me.

Please define god.

 

[puglover]

EDIT: COuldn't resist! Puglover, please define god. Remember that you have to use more than 10 characters...

There are plenty of definitions for God. Depends on which one you would like to use. Simply saying that God can't be defined though is an easy escape.

 

[De Lorimier]

God exists in your head. Does he have free will up there? Only you can answer this question.

 

[Che Guava]

There are plenty of definitions for God. Depends on which one you would like to use. Simply saying that God can't be defined though is an easy escape.

Just be sure you're not giving us a definition of the word 'God'. I want god defined in finite terms.

GO!

 

[puglover]

Just be sure you're not giving us a definition of the word 'God'. I want god defined in finite terms.

GO!

I'll use my own then.

God is the personification of good, and the creator of the universe. Is that what you wanted?

 

[warpus]

How is it impossible to define God? Sounds like a cop-out to me.

You dare suggest you can understand God?

Pfft.. such arrogance.

 

[Cuivienen]

I'll use my own then.

God is the personification of good, and the creator of the universe. Is that what you wanted?

If God is the personification of good, then God must be the most good. If God is the most good, then God can be nothing less than perfect. If God is perfect, God must always make the best choice. If God can only make the best choice, God only ever has one choice. Therefore, God does not have free will.

 

[puglover]

You dare suggest you can understand God?

Pfft.. such arrogance.

I define him as he revealed himself. I do not take the power of understanding God upon myself, only of discovering him better.

I'm sure a good portion of my theology will be changed two minutes after I die.

If God is the personification of good, then God must be the most good. If God is the most good, then God can be nothing less than perfect. If God is perfect, God must always make the best choice. If God can only make the best choice, God only ever has one choice. Therefore, God does not have free will.

God's perfection is a part of his nature. Therefore it is his choice to choose perfectly. He will never choose otherwise because of who he is, not because of circumstance, and that gives him free will.

 

[Cuivienen]

God's perfection is a part of his nature. Therefore it is his choice to choose perfectly. He will never choose otherwise because of who he is, not because of circumstance, and that gives him free will.

If who he is makes God always make teh same choice, then who he is gives him no free will. The very definition of free will is that there is real choice available. If your nature mandates that you must always make the same choice, any other options presented are illusory and not truly representative of free will.

 

[puglover]

If who he is makes God always make teh same choice, then who he is gives him no free will. The very definition of free will is that there is real choice available. If your nature mandates that you must always make the same choice, any other options presented are illusory and not truly representative of free will.

By your logic, if I were to choose to eat pudding rather than boiling acid, I would have no free will because I chose based on what I take pleasure in, and therefore what I am.

 

[warpus]

I define him as he revealed himself. I do not take the power of understanding God upon myself, only of discovering him better.

I'm sure a good portion of my theology will be changed two minutes after I die.

So where in the Bible does God discuss the nature of his free will? or eve his own perfection? or nature in any sort of way?